Author Topic: Growing grain.  (Read 6535 times)

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Offline John Florida

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Growing grain.
« on: April 13, 2011, 10:11:59 PM »
 I wonder how much corn or grain you would need to grow for a say a family of 4 to be able to get through a year to the next crop? And/or how much you would need to grow fuel and food for a year?And the side benefits of doing it.


  Anybody??
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2011, 10:49:08 PM »
from  the 1st book off my shelf:


an acre of corn yields 750 - 1500 doz. ears of corn (shelled corn yields about 56 lbs per bushel)

an acre of wheat yields 20 - 50 bushels (wheat yields 60 pounds per bushel)

1000sq feet:
corn 6-8 doz ears
wheat 40 lbs

(above From The Backyard Homestead)

I dug this out of my old copy of Carla Emery's book:
Wheat--40 lbs per child and 300 lbs per adult for a year's supply

I haven't found anything on corn.
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Offline John Florida

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2011, 10:57:49 PM »
If a thousand square feet yealds 40 pound of wheat and a builders acre is 40,000 sq.feet that would be 1600 poinds of wheat. Hell that would be enough for a couple and then some. With a couple of acres you could do fuel and food and use the fuel left overs for animals.
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Online Pandora

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2011, 11:17:52 PM »
If a thousand square feet yealds 40 pound of wheat and a builders acre is 40,000 sq.feet that would be 1600 poinds of wheat. Hell that would be enough for a couple and then some. With a couple of acres you could do fuel and food and use the fuel left overs for animals.

Yah, and you razzed me about planting two acres of stuff.  "Do you know how much two acres is?"
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Offline John Florida

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2011, 11:31:39 PM »
If a thousand square feet yields 40 pound of wheat and a builders acre is 40,000 sq.feet that would be 1600 pounds of wheat. Hell that would be enough for a couple and then some. With a couple of acres you could do fuel and food and use the fuel left overs for animals.

Yeah, and you razzed me about planting two acres of stuff.  "Do you know how much two acres is?"

 80 thousand square feet if you use builder acres or 88 thousand square feet in real acres.Yes I do and I would not be looking at trees. You can't devote all of that to grain you need more land for other stuff.

 I like mental exercising to see how far I can take something. Like if you did plant 2 acres of grain what can you get besides flour out of it. How much do you need for food and then how do you get more than one use out of it.

 If the math posted is right and I would need 600 pounds for two adults for a year and I have 1000 pounds left what can be done with it?
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2011, 11:49:44 PM »
[<snip>and I have 1000 pounds left what can be done with it?

You can make roasted grain coffee.

 Not sure what to do with the other 999 lbs though.
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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2011, 11:54:19 PM »
[<snip>and I have 1000 pounds left what can be done with it?

You can make roasted grain coffee.

 Not sure what to do with the other 999 lbs though.

"Grain silo"?  There'd be some needed for replanting as well, wouldn't there?
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 12:01:58 AM »
for planting

1000 sq ft you'd need 3 to 6 lbs or 100 to 180 lbs per acre

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Offline John Florida

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 09:29:45 AM »
[<snip>and I have 1000 pounds left what can be done with it?

You can make roasted grain coffee.

 Not sure what to do with the other 999 lbs though.

 It can be cooked whole for stews and soups.

 But where I was going is to make spirits for fuel or trade.


And the left overs from spirits can be feed for animals and even the straw can be used for heating fuel for homes or as bedding for live stock and then in the end as compost for the land.

When I go into these exercises I like to see if and what can be used till nothings left to use.
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 10:18:52 AM »
[<snip>and I have 1000 pounds left what can be done with it?

You can make roasted grain coffee.

 Not sure what to do with the other 999 lbs though.

 It can be cooked whole for stews and soups.

 But where I was going is to make spirits for fuel or trade.


And the left overs from spirits can be feed for animals and even the straw can be used for heating fuel for homes or as bedding for live stock and then in the end as compost for the land.

When I go into these exercises I like to see if and what can be used till nothings left to use.

I gotcha, I was being silly.

I read a book once that explained that every last part of a corn plant is used in someway -- from food to industrial coatings.


What would be more valuable in trade? Wheat in its natural form or processed in some way?
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline John Florida

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2011, 10:35:11 AM »
[<snip>and I have 1000 pounds left what can be done with it?

You can make roasted grain coffee.

 Not sure what to do with the other 999 lbs though.

 It can be cooked whole for stews and soups.

 But where I was going is to make spirits for fuel or trade.


And the left overs from spirits can be feed for animals and even the straw can be used for heating fuel for homes or as bedding for live stock and then in the end as compost for the land.

When I go into these exercises I like to see if and what can be used till nothings left to use.

I gotcha, I was being silly.

I read a book once that explained that every last part of a corn plant is used in someway -- from food to industrial coatings.


What would be more valuable in trade? Wheat in its natural form or processed in some way?

 Corn doesn't quite give you all the uses that grain does.Remembering that were talking home useage. That's not to say it doesn't have a purpose.The one thing you can't make with wheat is oil.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2011, 05:06:32 PM »
We have been investigating Quinoa as a potential crop -High Altitude, drought resistant, short growing season (90-125 days) , high yield (in South America hand harvesting can result in yileds as high as 5000 Lbs/Acre - in Colorado, with machine harvest 1200 lbs per acre have been obtained) , complete protein,grain with Oil producing capabilities ( and soap from the sapponin)  - It sustained the Incan empire, and the Sapponin discourages critters from eating it ( but makes the harvest labor intenisve because it must be washed and dried)- though the greens are tasty to them (and humans)  when the plants are young.

http://www.rain.org/greennet/docs/exoticveggies/html/quinoa.htm
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1993/v2-328.html

plus its really, really tasty.



Offline John Florida

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2011, 05:45:39 PM »
Quinoa (pronounced Keen'-wah or Kwin-o'-uh) belongs to a genus of mostly weedy annuals. The plant can reach a height of 5 feet, however, among varieties heights range from 42 to 72 inches. Leaves are triangular ovate, angular-toothed, or pinnatifid. The plant has thick tops and seed color ranging from black, red, orange, yellow, and white. The seed coat color is caused by a coat of saponin, which has industrial uses but may be toxic. The grain must be processed to remove this coat, leaving it a white color. Quinoa seeds, similar to millet seeds, are inch and have two flat surfaces.

 I'm not sure I want to see those words on something that's to be home grown.The rest looks fine but that's a little troubling to me.

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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2011, 09:31:06 PM »
I'm not sure I want to see those words on something that's to be home grown.The rest looks fine but that's a little troubling to me.

Ye, you want to wash the saponin off. Its nasty tasting and soapy, so its not like you won't notice.. but thats also what keeps the critters from being interested.

"Quinoa can be classified according to its saponin concentrations as either "sweet" (saponin free or having less than 0.11% saponins on a fresh weight basis) or "bitter" (containing more than 0.11% saponins) (Koziol 1990b). The saponins in quinoa are glycosidic triterpenoids (Burnouf-Radosevich et al. 1985; Mizui et al. 1988, 1990; Ma et al. 1989; Meyer et al. 1990; Ridout et al. 1991) and represent the major antinutritional factor found in the grain (Koziol 1992). Fortunately, most of these saponins are concentrated in the outer layers of the grain (perianth, pericarp, seed coat, and a cuticle-like layer) which facilitates their removal industrially by abrasive dehulling (Reichert et al. 1986) or traditionally by washing the grains with water.
The toxicity of saponins depends upon their type, method of absorption, and target organism (for a comprehensive review, see Price et al. 1987). Because of their differential toxicity to various organisms saponins have been investigated as potent natural insecticides which would have no adverse effects on higher animals and man (Basu and Rastogi 1967). Other interest in saponins is in their antibiotic, fungistatic, and pharmacological properties (Basu and Rastogi 1967; Agarwal and Rastogi 1974; Chandel and Rastogi 1980; Nonaka 1986). The pharmacological interest in saponins lies with their ability to induce changes in intestinal permeability (Gee et al. 1989; Johnson et al. 1986) which may aid the absorption of particular drugs (Basu and Rastogi 1967), and with their hypocholesterolemic effects (Oakenfull and Sidhu 1990). As the saponins in quinoa have been relatively little studied their potential commercial uses remain unknown. "


They are water soluable, and apparently you can make soaps and shampoos out of it (  I know at least one major hotel chain stocks "Quinoa" saponin shampoo in its rooms)
I just can't imagne its thats toxic if the Incas lived on it as their staple food. And as I said, once washed its really tasty.. enough so it passes the five year old's "if its a plant I am sure it will kill me to eat it" taste buds.




Offline michelleo

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2011, 09:43:54 PM »
What would be more valuable in trade? Wheat in its natural form or processed in some way?

I'm guessing in the hull (natural form).  It keeps a lot better that way.  And flour starts losing its vitamin content as soon as its ground.  I believe that's part of the reason why most flours are fortified.

Offline michelleo

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2011, 09:46:40 PM »
LDS Prep says 400lbs/yr of grain for 1 adult male.
For an average adult Female - multiply the weight by 0.75
For children ages 1-3 multiply by 0.3, 4-6 multiply by 0.5, 7-9 multiply by 0.75
For adults engaged in manual labor multiply by 1.25-1.50.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2011, 09:51:27 PM »
More here:
http://www.henriettesherbal.com/blog/saponins.html
"They work much like real soap does.

So they make a lather, and split fats into smaller bits, and split red blood cells into smaller bits as well. Based on that last, there are spurious "don't eat this plant!" warnings out there - but hey, do you use soap on your open wounds? Soap splits your red blood cells as well, but you don't see warnings against eating that, do you?
Or yes, you do see warnings against eating real soap, but that's because of its (rather mild) puke'n'purge effect. Which you can also get from drinking too much saponin-rich plant tea. "Toxic", my tiny hiney. .....Fish have gills, and saponins make their gills not work anymore. So if you have gills: stay far away from saponins. Stay off the soap, too, it'll be just as bad for you. If you don't have gills, well, puke'n'purge isn't all that toxic - there's much much worse"

and Here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saponin

So yeah, if you decided to wash the saponins off, concentrate them and then inject yourself with them, then that would probably be bad.. but then that could probably be said of carrot juice ..

There may be long term effects of a sustained diet over years I suppose.. but this paper suggests not:
http://books.google.com/books?id=CSzT_1jVOboC&pg=PA285&lpg=PA285&dq=long+term+saponin+exposure&source=bl&ots=whnSW0ZQSe&sig=OE8v5Ub-qkcBH41DP9-XITIkzKk&hl=en&ei=2wKpTdqaJ_LZiAKmmNDvDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=long%20term%20saponin%20exposure&f=false

Spinach and Alfalfa also have significant amounts of saponins..



Offline John Florida

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Re: Growing grain.
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2011, 10:15:28 PM »
What would be more valuable in trade? Wheat in its natural form or processed in some way?

I'm guessing in the hull (natural form).  It keeps a lot better that way.  And flour starts losing its vitamin content as soon as its ground.  I believe that's part of the reason why most flours are fortified.



  Besides it's also has a value as a seed for new crops. But as alcohol certainly has a double values as fire water and fuel. But the ting for me is to use something till there's nothing left.


 From the plant we have a food crop fuel crop and feed stock for animals both the seed and the hay would be usefull as winter feed for animals to a point and as bedding.


The hay can also be used as a base to make fuel pellets for heating and they also sell pellet stoves for cooking.

 Pellet mills aren't that expensive either.For the people living in warmer climates peanuts would be a good source of cooking oil and feed for animals too and humans for that matter.

 I'm going to do a little research for small machines that can help with this subject.
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