Topics > General Board

Another freedom lost. Gone. Poof. Thanks alot, Obama DOJ.

<< < (7/7)

trapeze:
Well, I cashed out at PokerStars. I have no idea if it will actually result in my money returning to my bank account but time will tell. A few minutes ago I received this email notiifcation:


--- Quote ---Cashout request time: 2011/04/16 17:55 ET

Cashout amount: USD $*****

USD $***** will be submitted for processing to your ECHECK account (1***************6*9*).
Credit transaction #*******89

Please allow 72 hours for processing of ECHECK cashouts and another 3-10 business days for the funds to be available in your ECHECK account balance.
--- End quote ---

It wasn't very much money and it wouldn't have killed me to lose it but I decided that I would rather have it than let the Toonces mob get it. Which is what will eventually happen if things move along their present course.

On the other hand there are a great number of players that play online for a living. No kidding. They make several thousand a month just like a real job. Most of them even file legitimate tax returns on their earnings...the smart ones do anyway. If their money gets tied up now some of them may not be able to pay their taxes. Irony. And stupidity (Obama's). And of course they will now join the ranks of the jobless with little to no hope of replacing their online income. Even if they happen to live next to a brick and mortar casino they will not be able to play enough hands/hr to equal what they did online.

Professional online players will play 8+ hours a day...usually 12 or more...from the comfort of their homes. They will play four or more games simultaneously and will go through 75 to 100 hands per hour per game. That is simply not possible to match in the real world where cards have to be physically shuffled and dealt, where live players are allowed much more latitude in time to make decisions but most importantly, where you can only sit at one table.

trapeze:
From the 2+2 Poker Forum site here is an excerpt from what is billed as the "Cliff Notes" version of the 9 count indictment...


--- Quote ---- Count 8 is probably the most problematic for the sites, since it's the only one that doesn't appear to be anchored to the question of whether online poker is unlawful internet gambling. In other words, even if the DOJ were to concede as much, I'm not sure it exonerates any of the defendants from the charge that they fraudulently opened bank accounts and disguised the nature of gambling transactions, which is a clear violation of the law, no matter how the 'unlawful internet gambling' part comes out.

- re: Count 8, I don't know what the poker sites' defense strategy will be, but I would *guess* it will be trying to distance themselves from the 3rd party payment processors ("PPs"). They'll probably claim that they merely worked with PPs who promised them that they could process transactions with US banks/customers, and that they (the sites) didn't know anything about how the PPs accomplished that: i.e. "Hey, we had a contract with the PPs to process the transactions, but we had no idea that they were lying to US banks to get it done." Unfortunately, that strategy seems to be substantially undercut by the nature of internal poker site docs, which the DOJ appears to have in their hands. One of them is an internal PokerStars doc acknowledging that the transaction descriptors associated with US customer-transactions "are often vague and rarely reflect the nature of the transaction in any way. In fact most descriptors strongly imply the transaction has nothing to do with PokerStars....it's all too easy for a player to say to their bank 'I've never made a purchase at bicyclebigshop.com'. As a result chargebacks (Not Auth & Stop Payments) are increasing which in turn jeopardizes the relationship with the processor and their banks." In short, the poker sites weren't completely oblivious as to what was going on. Whether that absolves them of any legal liability I don't know.

- Interestingly, in 2009, a lot of the PP arrangements collapsed and bank accounts were closed/seized by the US gov. After that happened, the DOJ indictment alleges that FTP and Stars embarked on a new strategy called "transparent processing": they set about to find a method of getting payments processed that did not involve any lying to banks. In a nutshell, it appears that they approached various US banks, and essentially told them straight-up what they wanted to do (and also probably argued to them that it was NOT illegal because online poker wasn't covered by the UIGEA since it wasn't, in a strict sense, unlawful internet gambling). It appears that the sites also "incentivized" these banks by paying them lucrative processing fees, and in at least one case, investing heavily in the financially troubled bank. The DOJ says that these were basically bribes. But it was an interesting strategy that may allow the sites to argue that (at least when it came to this "transparent processing"), they did not do anything fraudulent, since they told the truth at every stage, and if there was illegal activity, it was by the bank itself.
--- End quote ---


Libertas:
Leftists are by definition joyless people, and anything that provides joy must either be heavily taxed to take most of the fun out of it, or destroyed outright as not beneficial to the state.  These bastards willnever stop...the them or us situation approaches ever faster!  Next, kicking in doors to punish people gong back to old fashioned poker nights with buddies can't be too far behind for this bunch, eh?

ToddF:

--- Quote from: trapeze on April 16, 2011, 02:11:33 AM ---
That's the conservative law and order side of me talking.


--- End quote ---

The Libertarian side of me is all for breaking laws that are only there because others have paid protection money.  People in the United States have no problem with gambling, morality wise.  If we did we wouldn't have taxation of the stupid lotteries or bricks and morter casinos.  Because, and only because the bribes paid by Indians and Big Casino to politicians, is the only reason internet poker is illegal.

Yes, this should be a major opportunity for any tea party candidate who can connect the dots, between bribe money and millions having their past time taken away.

ToddF:

--- Quote ---According to the indictment, these individuals obtained accounts at U.S. banks for the poker companies by lying about the nature of the transactions and covering up those lies by creating phone corporations and Web sites.
--- End quote ---

That was probably their fatal mistake.  When you move offshore, you have to really move offshore.  You can't try sneaking back into the US and that's what they did.  Dumb Dumb!

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[*] Previous page

Go to full version