Topic: Any Questions? Grid Attacks.

[Weisshaupt]

The April 16, 2013, attack had not been widely publicized until The Wall Street Journal reported new details in a story on Wednesday. The attack reportedly started when at least one person entered an underground vault to cut telephone cables, and attackers fired more than 100 shots into Pacific Gas & Electric’s Metcalf transmission substation, knocking out 17 transformers. Electric officials were able to avert a blackout, but it took 27 days to repair the damage.

They suspect domestic terrorism.  Well, when you "fundamentally transform" a country against the will of a great many people, and in violation of the governments charter,  I suspect that you create terrorists, in the same way they are created when you march into Iraq or Afghanistan and start "fundamentally transforming"  those countries.  No one likes to be meddled with.

Note the date. Anything you know of that has people pissed off around then?  Well planned, well executed, no fingerprints, no arrests. 

update: surveillance video


I guess this was first reported back in December but I missed it - Still - months after the event, and I suspect they were hoping this would fall into the memory hole.  How many other such attacks have there been we don't know about?

Modified to clarify title- P.

[Libertas]

Domestic terrorism my ass!  If there is that possibility it is only because the PTBs want it to look like domestic terrorism to fit their false flag mission paramaters to complete the police state transition.  They must really think we are all exceedingly stupid.  Now, I grant you that given what is going on in this nation, yes, there is an avalanche of evidence to point to that in fact too many millions of people in the nation are completely and intentionally stupid beyond repair.  But not all of us!  This whole things stinks to high heaven, the FBI is full of shyt and totally useless...this is either a test run of a false flag event or a test run executed by foreign terrorists.  Since the latter is incapable of leaving a crime scene unlittered and without a single fingerprint on a shell casing...I lean toward the false flag event as being the most likely explanation.

[Weisshaupt]

Domestic terrorism my ass!  If there is that possibility it is only because the PTBs want it to look like domestic terrorism to fit their false flag mission paramaters to complete the police state transition.  They must really think we are all exceedingly stupid.  Now, I grant you that given what is going on in this nation, yes, there is an avalanche of evidence to point to that in fact too many millions of people in the nation are completely and intentionally stupid beyond repair.  But not all of us!  This whole things stinks to high heaven, the FBI is full of shyt and totally useless...this is either a test run of a false flag event or a test run executed by foreign terrorists.  Since the latter is incapable of leaving a crime scene unlittered and without a single fingerprint on a shell casing...I lean toward the false flag event as being the most likely explanation.

No, I disagree.  If patriots were to attempt an attack - this is exactly what it looks like

 Well planned with nothing left to give them  a lead - if its a false flag they would already have scapegoats picked out, the effects would have been more widespread,  and the MSM would have hyped the hell out of it in April as a Tax Day attack by Right-wing-domestic terrorists. INstead the first reference I can find was in December-- probably released as a last ditch effort hoping an individual smart enough to not have co-conspirators or  to leave evidence will be so proud of his work he will to gloat  about it to friends  on the internet and  allow the NSA to find them

Further, there were  no deaths - but it inflicted high costs and was potentially very  disruptive  (obviously they were able to route around the problem..)  A disgruntled employee would probably have enough knowledge of the system to make sure the problem would have been more widespread, and the date lends credence to the right-wing terrorist theory.   Also, this is exactly the sort of attack Patriots will need to engage in so the  govt looks ineffective and foolish ( not hard) After all, no one was killed, they just need to get the lights back on,  the water back on etc. All stuff the leftist useful idiots take for granted.  Yes, that  effect can be used by the govt to justify more of a police state  if you frighten the sheep enough with life or death scenarios - but when no one is killed and its just a matter of getting the sewage flowing again, the libtards won't understand why it takes so long, and their anger will go more  toward the govt who is responsible for "taking care of them" and not to the terrorists who caused the problem. After all, the govt <SHOULD>  have prevented this from happening in the first place, and even with a police state they won't be able to stop it.  There are just way too many miles of power lines, communication lines , waterways and bridges to  guard them all.

For all we know these attacks are now becoming widespread.  The Government is going to squelch information about any real attacks like this  because they don't want others to become emboldened by their success.  They don't want it widely known that a guy with a .22LR can darken LA for months if he attacks the right sites.  They don't want it know that  destroying the right ditch walls in the desert will leave LA without water.  They don't want it known that the right materials thrown down sewers in the right places will mess up the treatment plants.   They don't want it known just how impotent they are or just how dependent they are upon voluntary compliance.

[Libertas]

Sure, OK, then don't these freedom fighters know they are handing the statists what they want?  Or is it your assertion that they in fact want the statists to come full out of the shadows and issue Order 66?  I can see some merit in forcing their hand if fully revealing them earlier than they would like would engender the kind of anti-statist response they hope catches and rages like wildfire across the nation.  But there are a lot of idiots out there who would gladly out a neighbor rightly or wrongly for whatever additional FSA reward there is to snatch than there are people accurately viewing the power-grab ocurring before their very faces, so I see no reason why the statists haven't acted already...what possibly could they be waiting for?  Who the hell is stopping them now?  They could act any minute now.  And as badly as the statists want white christian conservative/libertarian bible-thumping gun-toting rednecks to pin ANYTHING on I am dubious in this age of intrusion they can't find someone connected to this in that community if in fact it is them.  At least history has shown the jihadis are capable of being comfortable off-grid and the biggest drawback they suffer from is their looks and habits...and if a FF Op by the statists that could also explain why no arrests or suspects have surfaced.  I'm not sold on any story right now, but I have a hard time thinking this is anyone near our kind of people.

[Weisshaupt]

Sure, OK, then don't these freedom fighters know they are handing the statists what they want?  Or is it your assertion that they in fact want the statists to come full out of the shadows and issue Order 66?  I can see some merit in forcing their hand if fully revealing them earlier than they would like would engender the kind of anti-statist response they hope catches and rages like wildfire across the nation.  But there are a lot of idiots out there who would gladly out a neighbor rightly or wrongly for whatever additional FSA reward there is to snatch than there are people accurately viewing the power-grab ocurring before their very faces, so I see no reason why the statists haven't acted already...what possibly could they be waiting for?  Who the hell is stopping them now?  They could act any minute now.  And as badly as the statists want white christian conservative/libertarian bible-thumping gun-toting rednecks to pin ANYTHING on I am dubious in this age of intrusion they can't find someone connected to this in that community if in fact it is them.  At least history has shown the jihadis are capable of being comfortable off-grid and the biggest drawback they suffer from is their looks and habits...and if a FF Op by the statists that could also explain why no arrests or suspects have surfaced.  I'm not sold on any story right now, but I have a hard time thinking this is anyone near our kind of people.

Yeah, Islamic Terrorism is also a possible culprit, but usually they claim responsibility. Perhaps the attack didn't have as widespread an effect as hoped for so they let it go.  But generally the Islamics go for blood and gore.. not infrastructure.

This could also be a gang of regular criminals - taking out a substation in hopes of de-energizing  something down the line - so they can steal the copper or break into to some secure location and steal..

The Statists will get what they want even if they have to manufacture it, and when they do, it won't be an attack on a substation.  Public opinion is irrelevant and was the minute that we knew the Dems were capable of pushing the margin of cheat to 100%.  If Patriots destroy infrastructure, they are blamed for terrorism.  If Patriots sit in their homes and do nothing, they plan a false  flag and blame them for terrorism.  The result is the same either way, and as such it shoul have no bearing at all on the goals of the patriot movement. 

[Pandora]

If patriots were to attempt an attack - this is exactly what it looks like.

Agree.

[Libertas]

I dunno.  If it was me (and it isn't...I'll put that little disclaimer there) I think the better way to turn the lights off is to turn the economy off.  A simultaneous series of physical and cyber attacks on Wall St, CME, Fed Res Banks, etc would be devastating and set the dominoes tumbling.

Plus, recall the recent breaches at water treatment facilities and nuclear power plants?  That has jihadi or false flag all over it...the statists want panic and nothing panics people like death.  Jihadis also like panic induced by death, but they also like breaking stuff.  A patriot would go after systems that support the tyranny of the regime.

Just my two cents...

[Weisshaupt]

I dunno.  If it was me (and it isn't...I'll put that little disclaimer there) I think the better way to turn the lights off is to turn the economy off.  A simultaneous series of physical and cyber attacks on Wall St, CME, Fed Res Banks, etc would be devastating and set the dominoes tumbling.

Plus, recall the recent breaches at water treatment facilities and nuclear power plants?  That has jihadi or false flag all over it...the statists want panic and nothing panics people like death.  Jihadis also like panic induced by death, but they also like breaking stuff.  A patriot would go after systems that support the tyranny of the regime.

Just my two cents...

Obama is already turning the economy off.  That is going to happen.  Patriots should aid in that effort because it would shorten the time scale and leave the Statists less time to get the police state in place.  I am convinced that shortly after the dollar collapse the government will be largely ineffective as the pensions disappear and their minions (including shock troops)  become disgruntled. As gratifying as Fight club is, physical attacks on the banking system will likely be ineffectual - that data is backed up somewhere.. and it might even help - like that fire in Argentina.  Whoops we lost that info in the attack! A Cyber Attack could cause more damage, but again, how do you know you aren't doing them a favor.  The  Credit Card breaches (target)  also give them an excuse to cancel out charges (Bad debt)  -- We are in a catch .22 where  the Patriots and Statists want the same thing - an end to the current system.  The goals are different, but  the current system isn't going to be sustainable.  This needs to shift to a Police State or needs to be restored to a system based upon individual freedom. There is no middle way that is viable. .

As this escalates, violence and fear become the govt's main weapons - and so when you see an attack hyped on the news its because the govt is trying to justify its OWN VIOLENCE and POLICE STATE against the people.  They need the "terrorist attack" to be MORE violent and have higher death counts than they have in their own actions, and attacks that would demonstrate that will help them.  As a result, patriots are going to chose attacks  like this substation-- For a brick of .22LR  it will cost the economy millions - if the power is out  for  days or weeks,  it may cost Billions. No one dies - at least not directly.  Likewise, this is largely a city-mouse vs country mouse thing. The Statists are geographically concentrated in just a few areas.

  The farmer in the country has the generator. The Suburbanite or the ghetto dweller do not.  The Farmer in the country has access to a well, a lake or a river.  The city folk don't have enough..  The farmer has a septic and a means to grow food.  The urbanite craps in the stairwells. If  this turns into a Civil war, the Patriots will and must lay siege to the cities and the best way is non-lethal attacks to the infrastructure that supports them.

[Libertas]

I dunno.  If it was me (and it isn't...I'll put that little disclaimer there) I think the better way to turn the lights off is to turn the economy off.  A simultaneous series of physical and cyber attacks on Wall St, CME, Fed Res Banks, etc would be devastating and set the dominoes tumbling.

Plus, recall the recent breaches at water treatment facilities and nuclear power plants?  That has jihadi or false flag all over it...the statists want panic and nothing panics people like death.  Jihadis also like panic induced by death, but they also like breaking stuff.  A patriot would go after systems that support the tyranny of the regime.

Just my two cents...

Obama is already turning the economy off.  That is going to happen.  Patriots should aid in that effort because it would shorten the time scale and leave the Statists less time to get the police state in place.  I am convinced that shortly after the dollar collapse the government will be largely ineffective as the pensions disappear and their minions (including shock troops)  become disgruntled. As gratifying as Fight club is, physical attacks on the banking system will likely be ineffectual - that data is backed up somewhere.. and it might even help - like that fire in Argentina.  Whoops we lost that info in the attack! A Cyber Attack could cause more damage, but again, how do you know you aren't doing them a favor.  The  Credit Card breaches (target)  also give them an excuse to cancel out charges (Bad debt)  -- We are in a catch .22 where  the Patriots and Statists want the same thing - an end to the current system.  The goals are different, but  the current system isn't going to be sustainable.  This needs to shift to a Police State or needs to be restored to a system based upon individual freedom. There is no middle way that is viable. .

As this escalates, violence and fear become the govt's main weapons - and so when you see an attack hyped on the news its because the govt is trying to justify its OWN VIOLENCE and POLICE STATE against the people.  They need the "terrorist attack" to be MORE violent and have higher death counts than they have in their own actions, and attacks that would demonstrate that will help them.  As a result, patriots are going to chose attacks  like this substation-- For a brick of .22LR  it will cost the economy millions - if the power is out  for  days or weeks,  it may cost Billions. No one dies - at least not directly.  Likewise, this is largely a city-mouse vs country mouse thing. The Statists are geographically concentrated in just a few areas.

  The farmer in the country has the generator. The Suburbanite or the ghetto dweller do not.  The Farmer in the country has access to a well, a lake or a river.  The city folk don't have enough..  The farmer has a septic and a means to grow food.  The urbanite craps in the stairwells. If  this turns into a Civil war, the Patriots will and must lay siege to the cities and the best way is non-lethal attacks to the infrastructure that supports them.

That's the rub, and since there is practically zero chance that "restoration" is possible, there really is only the final battle to engage.  I guess I am generally indifferent as to how we get there, just that we get there with as many resources and allies as possible so that the maximum amount of energy can be directed at the statists.  I guess we'll find out.

[Weisshaupt]

That's the rub, and since there is practically zero chance that "restoration" is possible, there really is only the final battle to engage.  I guess I am generally indifferent as to how we get there, just that we get there with as many resources and allies as possible so that the maximum amount of energy can be directed at the statists.  I guess we'll find out.

I am not so pessimistic - I believe  Restoration IS possible -   actually I am hoping for improvements on the old system that would provide further checks against those who would seek to abuse it. But such restoration cannot occur until the power of the current corrupted one is ended and those who support a system in which the people are considered subjects of the state,  to be used, abused, sacrificed or killed for the public good, are killed for the public good.

Luckily reality will do most of that job for us - because reality will end the current system as math and economics make it unsustainable. The number of courses is fairly small

1) WMD is used and only a small portion of US Citizens survive to be ruled over by a Big Brother Technocracy police state
2) Conventional Weapons are used, a Civil war starts, and the cities are put under siege killing most everyone in them via lack of food, water, sanitation, power, fuel and rule of law, leaving the nation in chaos, but in a state were individual locales can declare and maintain independence - and THESE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA may choose to be so again, with local governments again taking the primary role as they did from the beginning - This is actually our best chance  for restoration
3) No attempt is made to conquer the American people before or after  the crash, and the federal government simply wanes in its power till local governments take up the slack.  With no common enemy to fight, the US just continues its decline into a 3rd world country, with the  Status Quo  of local power basically being Maintained  - isolated successions and civil wars.   Affairs probably get better over time as the slackers are killed off by reality - no govt can pay them, and street justice becomes the norm, suicide rates go way up-- It basically looks like Greece does now. 

In all scenarios the US is left poorer, without the rule of law for a time , and with millions of dead and dying.

I don't see foreign powers wasting resources on us. Its likely China will gain the reserve currency by doing a partial backing of yuan with gold and other commodities.  I do not think the IMF and SDR will be seen as a vaild solution by most of the world who will see the IMF as simply another uppity western organization.  China will enjoy America as a desperate resource colony for a time, happily throwing us pennies as we harvest our natural resources for them.

If we are very lucky a a new United States with a govt similar to the old will form from the individual locales, and the people set free from the stupid regulations and rules will begin to prosper again, but it would take Decades after the collapse to see anything even approaching our current standard of living.  I think there are enough people left who will fight  - the American revolution was fought with 3% of the population.. for a proposition to create something new that no one really knew if it were possible.. We, on the other hand, know its possible, and I suspect that will lead more to lay their lives down  to gain it for their children. 

[Glock32]

Asymmetric guerrilla insurgencies work by planting and reinforcing the thought that the state is incompetent, disinterested and, when it does act, ridiculously heavy handed.

The ineptitude of the current bureaucratic state is absolutely teeming with low-hanging fruit. This is one of the Left's blind spots, they fail to realize and appreciate just how much compliance and civil order depends on people showing voluntary restraint. It's the same with economics, they fail to appreciate how much it depends on private citizens going to work every day and performing some sort of productive task. The Leftists think their willfulness is the same thing as actual results.

[Libertas]

I wouldn't entirely rule out foreign intrigue.  Alaska almost certainly would be targeted by Russia, China...maybe even Japan in alliance with others for oil and other natural resources.  Mexico may seek some partners to take southern oil fields in Texas, California and the Gulf.  Others may make targeted in-and-out raids for specific items...spare military hardware, nuclear material and the like.  We would learn rather quickly we have no friends.

[Glock32]

Foreign intervention may happen, may not. If it does, foreign troops will be killed in large numbers. It depends on how willing their home nations are to tolerate adventurism in an internal, American conflict.

But it brings up a point that Weisshaupt alluded to earlier in the thread about the resurgence of local governments. I am not entirely certain that I would even want to restore a 50 state union. Look at what has brought us to this point: densely populated urban centers dictating to the rest of the country by virtue of the fact that there's simply a ton of them crammed into one area. Such environments are natural breeding grounds for collectivist statism. I'd rather be part of a country divorced from the likes of New York and California. The larger a country is geographically, the more diverse it becomes in every way imaginable -- not least of which being political ideologies. I will be content if a group of like minded states manage to retain the original American ideal.

[AlanS]

Foreign intervention may happen, may not. If it does, foreign troops will be killed in large numbers. It depends on how willing their home nations are to tolerate adventurism in an internal, American conflict.

The U.N. has already shown they don't like to be shot at.

[Septugenarian]

I recall participating in mocking those wearing light blue headgear by singing "Everything's better with blue bonnet on it!"

[Libertas]

Foreign intervention may happen, may not. If it does, foreign troops will be killed in large numbers. It depends on how willing their home nations are to tolerate adventurism in an internal, American conflict.

But it brings up a point that Weisshaupt alluded to earlier in the thread about the resurgence of local governments. I am not entirely certain that I would even want to restore a 50 state union. Look at what has brought us to this point: densely populated urban centers dictating to the rest of the country by virtue of the fact that there's simply a ton of them crammed into one area. Such environments are natural breeding grounds for collectivist statism. I'd rather be part of a country divorced from the likes of New York and California. The larger a country is geographically, the more diverse it becomes in every way imaginable -- not least of which being political ideologies. I will be content if a group of like minded states manage to retain the original American ideal.

Amen and Amen!

I would rather a band of states interested only in Founding Republicanism and Founding Principles who are fiercely jealous of their liberty be allowed to form a new nation, and I would qualify that further to mean that this in no way means the old boundary of a state be accepted as is, I don't care what bizarre shapes a state/new state takes in a new Republic, in no way will leftist areas be allowed to join the new entity unless the area has been completely purged of every last vestige of the rot.  This will mean writing off whole areas because if you cannot afford to revitalize the area why bother?  Why allow a slum to exist in your midst?  Those left behind are just left behind, that's how it will have to be.  They sealed their fate, we are only interested in securing our future.

[Libertas]

I recall participating in mocking those wearing light blue headgear by singing "Everything's better with blue bonnet on it!"

They make damn fine targets though.   

[Weisshaupt]

More attacks to the grid..

[Libertas]

"Electric grid compounds across the country have faced an uptick in unauthorized intrusions by unknown individuals, causing concern that the U.S. grid is 'inherently vulnerable' to widespread sabotage, according to a recent oversight report issued by New Jersey’s Regional Operations Intelligence Center (ROIC), which monitors the threat level."

Holy crap!  This guy is a genius!  I gotta get his autograph!

Wait...no I don't...since the backbone for most of our "grid" was laid out what, 5 decades ago?  Of course it is vulnerable!  It is under-built, over-stressed and securing from sabotage was a low priority compared to a) just getting it up and running and b) keeping it up and running as more demands are placed upon it and act's of God (storms, etc) knock it down.  Well, now they got something else to worry about...angry people.

I think these ROIC's are ripe for pruning!  Good luck trying to secure this stuff at this late date.

About the only "power" more secure is the nuke plants, they have much better security, especially since 9-11 and I hear their snipers are starting to get quite good.

Can't wait to see what clowns are doing to keep our water safe.

 

OK, now ya dunnit Weisshaupt...my day is now shot to sh*t!   

[ChrstnHsbndFthr]

That's the rub, and since there is practically zero chance that "restoration" is possible, there really is only the final battle to engage.  I guess I am generally indifferent as to how we get there, just that we get there with as many resources and allies as possible so that the maximum amount of energy can be directed at the statists.  I guess we'll find out.

I am not so pessimistic - I believe  Restoration IS possible -   actually I am hoping for improvements on the old system that would provide further checks against those who would seek to abuse it. But such restoration cannot occur until the power of the current corrupted one is ended and those who support a system in which the people are considered subjects of the state,  to be used, abused, sacrificed or killed for the public good, are killed for the public good.

Luckily reality will do most of that job for us - because reality will end the current system as math and economics make it unsustainable. The number of courses is fairly small

1) WMD is used and only a small portion of US Citizens survive to be ruled over by a Big Brother Technocracy police state
2) Conventional Weapons are used, a Civil war starts, and the cities are put under siege killing most everyone in them via lack of food, water, sanitation, power, fuel and rule of law, leaving the nation in chaos, but in a state were individual locales can declare and maintain independence - and THESE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA may choose to be so again, with local governments again taking the primary role as they did from the beginning - This is actually our best chance  for restoration
3) No attempt is made to conquer the American people before or after  the crash, and the federal government simply wanes in its power till local governments take up the slack.  With no common enemy to fight, the US just continues its decline into a 3rd world country, with the  Status Quo  of local power basically being Maintained  - isolated successions and civil wars.   Affairs probably get better over time as the slackers are killed off by reality - no govt can pay them, and street justice becomes the norm, suicide rates go way up-- It basically looks like Greece does now. 

In all scenarios the US is left poorer, without the rule of law for a time , and with millions of dead and dying.

I don't see foreign powers wasting resources on us. Its likely China will gain the reserve currency by doing a partial backing of yuan with gold and other commodities.  I do not think the IMF and SDR will be seen as a vaild solution by most of the world who will see the IMF as simply another uppity western organization.  China will enjoy America as a desperate resource colony for a time, happily throwing us pennies as we harvest our natural resources for them.

If we are very lucky a a new United States with a govt similar to the old will form from the individual locales, and the people set free from the stupid regulations and rules will begin to prosper again, but it would take Decades after the collapse to see anything even approaching our current standard of living.  I think there are enough people left who will fight  - the American revolution was fought with 3% of the population.. for a proposition to create something new that no one really knew if it were possible.. We, on the other hand, know its possible, and I suspect that will lead more to lay their lives down  to gain it for their children.

Good post.