Author Topic: Daily Caller Nails Glenn Beck On Unattributed Use Of Other People's Work  (Read 4791 times)

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Online Pandora

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What's that, the "holier than thou"?

I'd add nothing to what LV wrote, save to say that O'Keefe is young, still, and allowances need be made for lack of experience.

Beck should friggin know better on those grounds alone, on both counts.

I'm for throwing neither under the bus, as it stands now, but, folks, we've got egos on the field as the number one priority apparently.

That should be so comforting for whoever comes out on top .... of the bottom.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline trapeze

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Attribution is important. Really important. And that's what this story is all about. Attribution and professionalism.

If Beck is using other peoples' material (and I think this story cited quite a few instances and some of them are less than obscure) then that is wrong. And it is unprofessional. Extremely unprofessional. If you do this for a living then you had damned well better do it right.

It really is nothing more than that. Ego stuff is irrelevant to the central issue.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 11:07:18 PM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Online Pandora

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Newp.  Beg to differ.  Ego is the point.  IDP pointed to the potential reason and I believe he's on the money.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline trapeze

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Well, following that line, Breitbart would be the one with an axe to grind instead of TheDailyCaller. I haven't gone back to look at the article but I seem to remember that Breitbart was taking Beck's side and saying that all of his stuff had been properly credited.

At any rate, the issue for me is attribution and professionalism. I am not a big fan of cheating and fraud. And whether there is any ego involved or not, if Beck is using other peoples' stuff and not giving them at least a hat tip of some kind, and profiting by it...that is wrong. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Online Pandora

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Well, following that line, Breitbart would be the one with an axe to grind instead of TheDailyCaller. I haven't gone back to look at the article but I seem to remember that Breitbart was taking Beck's side and saying that all of his stuff had been properly credited.

At any rate, the issue for me is attribution and professionalism. I am not a big fan of cheating and fraud. And whether there is any ego involved or not, if Beck is using other peoples' stuff and not giving them at least a hat tip of some kind, and profiting by it...that is wrong. No ifs, ands or buts about it.



Hmmm.  I must be having clarity issues tonight because, again as well as with Soup, you and I are on the same page.

Not so much what Breitbart said about what Beck said, but what Beck said about O'Keefe and Breitbart taking issue - the gotcha is on Beck this time around.

Despite your on-point issue, what's going on here, apparently, is what's going on between two egos jousting for primacy.

"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline trapeze

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Okay, but if Beck was ethically pure in this situation there would be nothing they could throw at him. This is a big huge "glass houses and throwing stones" kind of thing and if I, as an uninterested observer (which I'm not), were forced to choose I would probably say that Beck is in the poorer light. O'Keefe made one tiny little error in judgement. Beck has, according to this apparently well researched story, been a serial abuser of attribution.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Well, following that line, Breitbart would be the one with an axe to grind instead of TheDailyCaller. I haven't gone back to look at the article but I seem to remember that Breitbart was taking Beck's side and saying that all of his stuff had been properly credited.

At any rate, the issue for me is attribution and professionalism. I am not a big fan of cheating and fraud. And whether there is any ego involved or not, if Beck is using other peoples' stuff and not giving them at least a hat tip of some kind, and profiting by it...that is wrong. No ifs, ands or buts about it.



Hmmm.  I must be having clarity issues tonight because, again as well as with Soup, you and I are on the same page.

Not so much what Breitbart said about what Beck said, but what Beck said about O'Keefe and Breitbart taking issue - the gotcha is on Beck this time around.

Despite your on-point issue, what's going on here, apparently, is what's going on between two egos jousting for primacy.



Yep.

(howzat for concordance?!)

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If Modo's or Krugman's work, or anyone's work at the NYSllimes for that matter, were as scrutinized as Beck's seems to be, we'd all be better off.  But scrutiny is a one way street these days.  A good example is the coverage of Bush and his golfing and his vacations in Crawford vs. Sir Golfsalot and his incessant and extravagant vacations worldwide, or the hysterical coverage of Bush's 5% unemployment rate (the end of the world!) and Obama's near 10% rate with it's ho-hum unexpectedness.

Remember, the Soros Machine is pissed at Beck for laying out on national tv their plans, their connections, their history.  There is nothing angrier than a scorned wife or an exposed lefty.

Offline Sectionhand

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I tune Beck out the moment I hear his voice . There's just something about the guy that I find irritating , not the least of which is the fact that he's a Johnny-come-lately know-it-all regarding government and American history .

Offline trapeze

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I tune Beck out the moment I hear his voice . There's just something about the guy that I find irritating , not the least of which is the fact that he's a Johnny-come-lately know-it-all regarding government and American history .

I used to listen to his radio show quite frequently before he got onto the CNNHN channel. He was upbeat and damned funny.

I never saw him on CNN (I just will not watch CNN products) and have only seen a few moments of his FNC show. That is mainly due to its time of day slot, though, not because I have a big problem with him.

That said, I don't find him as enjoyable to listen to since the doom and gloom stuff started up. He has always had a teaching angle to his radio show as far as I could tell. I remember him doing a multi part expose of scientology that was both informative and funny. It was around that time that I learned he was a mormon and I did think that was a bit hypocritical going after the very obvious cult stuff in scientology and ignoring the very real and similar problems in the LDS church.

I guess I am saying that I have had mixed feelings (hate that expression) since he broke away from radio only and started all of the television, book, live performance stuff. He has been spread thin and it has, IMO, taken away from what I originally found appealing about his radio presence. I have come to the point where I avoid listening to him on the radio.

At the same time I have grown to appreciate Mark Levin who makes no secret of his dislike of Beck. He also gives his reasons for not liking Beck and it has much to do with the subject matter of this thread. Levin has always been pissed off at other hosts who use the Levin show as show prep and Beck seems to be the one who does it the most.

I like Levin's unabashed anger at the left and the media. Beck doesn't seem to want to get angry. He gets all sad and weepy. There have been other things about Beck that have been weird...his medical issues are strange and sometimes seem invented (for publicity?).

I don't know...

But I have never liked people who cheat, defraud, con, lie and steal to advance themselves. To advance themselves on the backs of others. Levin has been accusing Beck of this for some time and the Daily Caller article seems to do a fairly good job of documenting this. So that's what gets me about all of this.

Beck is on the right side, obviously, but he needs to be ethically pure. If he is unwilling to do this and if he does not take this issue seriously as his editor in chief seemed to indicate, then I have a problem with that. An apology, a promise to clean up his act and the follow through on that promise is all that's really needed here.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline trapeze

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Oh, and I'm done explaining my point of view on this. It's getting redundant. Sorry about that.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

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In Beck's defense re; his change in style... it would be pretty hard to observe the undermining of the country, make the connections he's made between Leftist power brokers, union activists, Marxists, radical Islam, and elements within our own government including the President and his administration - and then work feverishly day after day on radio and TV to bring the nation up to his level of passion and understanding the challenge - and still remain the upbeat, humorous, cheerful, etc person he used to be.

I find myself becoming increasingly pessimistic, and I've always been a pretty balanced person, willing to look at all things but at the end of the day, settle on focusing on the good. I find that more and more difficult, and my thoughts and words are increasingly void of optimism when it comes to politics and the future of this country. I'm still me, but I'm changed. How I interface with the world has changed as I've watched my government systematically push aside everything I believe in and everything I believe America has been and should be.

I yearn for optimism and lightheartedness. But I yearn more deeply for a restored nation, and I will not engage in any way undermining the credibility of people who are willing to stand and fight as Glenn Beck has. If he is shown to be a criminal or egregiously unethical, then prove it. Until then, he's got our backs on a national stage, and it is utterly illogical to allow seeds of division grow because some people have bruised egos.

Mark Levin and Andrew Breitbart are fellow warriors as well. They would be wise to keep their sights trained on the real enemies of freedom, and allow Glenn Beck to do his work.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline radioman

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In Beck's defense re; his change in style... it would be pretty hard to observe the undermining of the country, make the connections he's made between Leftist power brokers, union activists, Marxists, radical Islam, and elements within our own government including the President and his administration - and then work feverishly day after day on radio and TV to bring the nation up to his level of passion and understanding the challenge - and still remain the upbeat, humorous, cheerful, etc person he used to be.

I find myself becoming increasingly pessimistic, and I've always been a pretty balanced person, willing to look at all things but at the end of the day, settle on focusing on the good. I find that more and more difficult, and my thoughts and words are increasingly void of optimism when it comes to politics and the future of this country. I'm still me, but I'm changed. How I interface with the world has changed as I've watched my government systematically push aside everything I believe in and everything I believe America has been and should be.

I yearn for optimism and lightheartedness. But I yearn more deeply for a restored nation, and I will not engage in any way undermining the credibility of people who are willing to stand and fight as Glenn Beck has. If he is shown to be a criminal or egregiously unethical, then prove it. Until then, he's got our backs on a national stage, and it is utterly illogical to allow seeds of division grow because some people have bruised egos.

Mark Levin and Andrew Breitbart are fellow warriors as well. They would be wise to keep their sights trained on the real enemies of freedom, and allow Glenn Beck to do his work.

Amen!
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Offline Libertas

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Well said IDP!

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We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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I find myself becoming increasingly pessimistic, and I've always been a pretty balanced person, willing to look at all things but at the end of the day, settle on focusing on the good. I find that more and more difficult, and my thoughts and words are increasingly void of optimism when it comes to politics and the future of this country. I'm still me, but I'm changed. How I interface with the world has changed as I've watched my government systematically push aside everything I believe in and everything I believe America has been and should be.

Pessimism is a valuable tool. Part of the reason we're in the mess that we're in is because so many people in positions of power -- whether in power over public policy or the family budget -- have preferred to blow sunshine up our (and their own) rears. Then you have the variation of this mentality, which is the ephemeral "live in the now!" type who think it's foolish to deny yourself enjoyment now just because of abstract future hypotheticals. This describes a lot of what Thomas Sowell calls the "first order thinking" of liberals.

You might find a recent short book by British author/academic Roger Scruton interesting. It's called "The Uses of Pessimism: And the Danger of False Hope"

Amazon's brief description:

Ranging widely over human history and culture, from ancient Greece to the current global economic downturn, Scruton makes a counterintuitive yet persuasive case that optimists and idealists -- with their ignorance about the truths of human nature and human society, and their naive hopes about what can be changed -- have wrought havoc for centuries. Scruton's argument is nuanced, however, and his preference for pessimism is not a dark view of human nature; rather his is a 'hopeful pessimism' which urges that instead of utopian efforts to reform human society or human nature, we focus on the only reform that we can truly master -- the improvement of ourselves through the cultivation of our better instincts. Written in Scruton's trademark style-- erudite, sweeping in scope across centuries and cultures, and unafraid to offend-- this book is sure to intrigue and provoke readers concerned with the state of Western culture, the nature of human beings, and the question of whether social progress is truly possible.
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Pessimism is a valuable tool.

And like most everything else it's never used correctly!
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline Glock32

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Pessimism is a valuable tool.

And like most everything else it's never used correctly!

I am an expert wielder of it myself, a veritable black belt in pessimism. To me the glass is not merely half empty, more like "well, it's going to be completely empty."  :D
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

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Offline LadyVirginia

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Pessimism is a valuable tool.

And like most everything else it's never used correctly!

I am an expert wielder of it myself, a veritable black belt in pessimism. To me the glass is not merely half empty, more like "well, it's going to be completely empty."  :D

 ::rolllaughing::
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline trapeze

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Pessimism is a valuable tool.

And like most everything else it's never used correctly!

I am an expert wielder of it myself, a veritable black belt in pessimism. To me the glass is not merely half empty, more like "well, it's going to be completely empty."  :D

You have a glass?!!
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Online IronDioPriest

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Pessimism is a valuable tool.

And like most everything else it's never used correctly!

I am an expert wielder of it myself, a veritable black belt in pessimism. To me the glass is not merely half empty, more like "well, it's going to be completely empty."  :D

You have a glass?!!

Uh-oh, I feel some Monty Python comin' on...
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson