Author Topic: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA  (Read 1701 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline OldSailor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • The world is sick and getting sicker.
A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« on: March 25, 2014, 07:09:21 AM »
Navy security forces kill suspect in sailor's shooting death at Naval Station Norfolk

A man fatally shot a U.S. Navy sailor before being shot and killed by responding security forces at Naval Station Norfolk in Virginia late Monday, a base spokeswoman said.

Terri Davis says the shooting happened around 11:20 p.m. Monday aboard the USS Mahan, a destroyer. Davis would not describe the circumstances of the shooting but said the scene is secure.

Davis says the two killed were both males but she didn't have any other information on them. She could not say if the civilian had permission to be aboard the ship or not. No other injuries were reported.

A little more here:
www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/25/2-dead-in-shooting-at-us-naval-station-in-norfolk-officials-say/

US Navy ships have armed security personnel on watch 24/7, something this shooter may not have been aware of. This comment assumes that the "civilian" came aboard as a guest but with malicious intent like the Navy Yard shooter. "Small boys" like Mahan don't normally carry Marines so security responsibilities fall to the ship's company. Sounds to me like someone did very well.

As I write this the investigation is still going on so hopefully we'll be learning more.
"In it's most basic form the right to keep and bear arms is nothing less than the right to maintain the means of one's own self-defense. If a man chooses not to arm himself, that is his choice and right. It is NOT his right to force his choice upon me." - Me

Online Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63917
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2014, 07:22:07 AM »
Yeah, heard this on the radio, nobody is reporting anything concrete yet as to what led to this, we can speculate about a messing with another mans girl and whatnot, but the good news is somebody on watch dropped this clown.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 8747
  • Get some!
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 01:48:53 PM »
With Obama's military it might be due to messing with another man's man.  Or perhaps these two were each other's man.  Spats between gay men are unusually violent.  They have the vindictiveness of women and the aggression and physicality of men.
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

- Yours Truly

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 19529
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 02:15:48 PM »
With Obama's military it might be due to messing with another man's man.  Or perhaps these two were each other's man.  Spats between gay men are unusually violent.  They have the vindictiveness of women and the aggression and physicality of men.

Read my mind ........
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline OldSailor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • The world is sick and getting sicker.
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2014, 04:41:22 PM »
With Obama's military it might be due to messing with another man's man.  Or perhaps these two were each other's man.  Spats between gay men are unusually violent.  They have the vindictiveness of women and the aggression and physicality of men.

That thought was voiced by one of my co-workers.
"In it's most basic form the right to keep and bear arms is nothing less than the right to maintain the means of one's own self-defense. If a man chooses not to arm himself, that is his choice and right. It is NOT his right to force his choice upon me." - Me

Offline OldSailor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • The world is sick and getting sicker.
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2014, 04:52:26 PM »
A few more details from last night's shooting. I had a bad feeling earlier, now I'm feeling I might have been right. I'll explain later.

First, no names have been released yet but the subject (I refuse to call this asshole a "suspect") used his own passes to get on the base and apparently was not armed, his ID was checked at the base gate and his car and body could have been searched at that point.  These people are Navy Master at Arms and are armed.  He also used his pass to get past the sentry at the shore end of Pier #1. He then approached the brow (gangway) of USS Mahan.

He was challenged by the Petty Officer of the Watch who he managed to disarm and then killed another sailor. It's not crystal clear at the moment who was shot and killed except it was stated this was someone else responding to the fight. At this point the subject was shot and killed by other security personnel, I presume by the Officer of the Deck. In my day the OOD was not armed but this apparently changed at some point since I retired. Also in my day the POOW, while armed would not be allowed to load and lock but keep his 2 magazines out of the pistol, but stowed in a carrier on his belt.

At this point I don't know if the watchstanders on the pier are armed or not.

The only other ship at Pier #1 at the time was the USNS Comfort hospital ship, in caretaker status with skeleton crew. As this crew is all civilian I suspect she is the excuse the subject gave to get onto the pier at nearly midnight, "going to work."

This could have been much worse if my "bad feeling" is confirmed.

My first thought was someone trying to emulate the shooter at the Washington Navy Yard.

If he had gotten past the Quarterdeck Watch, perhaps by killing the OOD and taking his weapon and magazines as well as the POOW's, the subject would have had 2 M-9 Beretta pistols and 4 highcap magazines. Only about 1/3 of Mahan's crew would be aboard (about 100 people) and many of those not on watch would likely be in their racks or getting ready to turn in.

Most berthing areas for enlisted aboard a destroyer would be in 30 to 50 bunk compartments (5 or 6 compartments) below the main deck, officers in 2 or 4 "man" staterooms in the Wardroom area.

If the subject was familiar with the Arleigh Burke class destroyer he would know where these compartments are.  They aren't hard to find.

None of the people in the berthing areas would be armed.

I have no idea if there are any armed security besides those on the Quarterdeck. In my day the only other armed personnel would be the sentry on watch at the entry to the ASROC magazine if that magazine was open and personnel inside because this is the space where (in destroyers and cruisers at that time) nuclear weapons could be stored or deployed from as depth charges. This sentry would be FORBIDDEN to leave his post FOR ANY REASON including one like this.  We ALWAYS acted as if there was one or more in the magazine.

One other possible source of armed help might be a member of the Master at Arms force (ship's "sheriff") though I do not know how many would be aboard (at least 1 per duty section I would hope) but again, I don't know if this individual would be armed or not.

Yeah, I'm thinking this dude might have been a "lone wolf" terrorist like the Navy Yard or Ft Hood shooters. Fortunately Mahan's people proved to not be totally complacent or helpless.

See, even sailors can learn (thank God.)  :)

Whoever it was who dropped that son of a bitch deserves a BIG attaboy (or attagirl(?)). A former SEAL I stood watch with in Nassau once told me that if you can keep your head when bullets are flying and respond as you've been trained then you've done your trainers proud as I think this individual has.

I stood watch inport as Officer of the Deck in both USS Caron and USS Nassau.
"In it's most basic form the right to keep and bear arms is nothing less than the right to maintain the means of one's own self-defense. If a man chooses not to arm himself, that is his choice and right. It is NOT his right to force his choice upon me." - Me

Online Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63917
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2014, 06:54:04 AM »
You probably know shipboard routines better than I OldSailor, being an airdale we only had to board the flattop when the birds came on, and even then non-NCO enlisted watches never had more than a duty belt with a flashlight and nightstick, POOW had the same and only Marines (weapons areas) and MAA's (Master-at-arms) had/had access to arms.  Our OODs just hung out and had POOWs check things out log them in the book.  OnBase it was the same and Marines manned all gates to/from the outside and IIRC in my day (pre-terror/post-Vietnam) they had arms and mags seperated.  A lot has changed since then and especially since Jihadis in our midst decided to act out on their cultish ways.

Bottom line I agree, whoever dropped this dirtball deserves a commendation and a lot of free drinks.

More news to follow I am sure.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline OldSailor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • The world is sick and getting sicker.
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2014, 11:42:17 AM »
Yeah Lib, things have changed since my day.  Women in the crew in all classes of warship including some appearing in submarine crews now, more weapons training (a VERY good thing IMHO) and so on.

In Caron as OOD I kept up the deck log, in Nassau the PooW did that, in both ships the PooW carried a .45 club (unloaded) both in homeport and in port overseas. 

We had Marines in Nassau as part of the ship's company and among other things they formed the ship's self defense force, a lot of them were surprised I knew my way around a 1911 well enough to have the thing "in battery" and ready to engage nearly as quickly as they could their M-9s, just as I expressed surprise that there was no Navy component to the self defense force.  No Marines in Caron, we were it and in my time aboard we took that job seriously, unlike a lot of small boys.  And unlike a lot of other small boys we took shameless advantage of the Coast Guard LEDets we carted around the Caribbean on "Pot Patrol," learning small unit compartment clearing tactics.

Obviously Mahan has no Marines in the crew, like my old gal-friend Caron the sailors are it when "it" hits the fan.  It's good to know they measured up when the Mid-Watch started off badly.  The OOD would probably have been a 1st Class or Chief, the PooW a 2nd or 3rd Class and the Messenger a 3rd Class or below.  Even though nothing has been said as yet, I get the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that the sailor killed was the Messenger (unarmed.)

NCIS is still working the case as I write this though they've closed out the crime scene portion of the investigation.

I'll see if I can find something a little more informative after I get off work tonight, I'm at lunch right now.

 ::USA::
"In it's most basic form the right to keep and bear arms is nothing less than the right to maintain the means of one's own self-defense. If a man chooses not to arm himself, that is his choice and right. It is NOT his right to force his choice upon me." - Me

Online Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63917
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2014, 12:15:02 PM »
Yeah, I think you're probably right about the victim being a lower enlisted person, but no matter the rank the loss is senseless.  Hopefully we get the straight skinny and none of the sanitized PC version of stuff.  Nobody should be fearful of accurate reporting...once again I display my age and old fashioned morality...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline OldSailor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • The world is sick and getting sicker.
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2014, 05:24:35 PM »
- but now we know the name of the heroic young man ...

Commander: Sailor killed on Norfolk base was "heroic"

Petty Officer 2nd Class Mark Mayo lost his life Monday when he jumped between a gunman and a fellow sailor on board the guided-missile destroyer Mahan, Navy officials said in a news conference this afternoon.
 
Mayo, 24, from Hagerstown, Maryland, had been in the Navy since 2007. He was working for base security on Norfolk Naval Station, where he was assigned since 2011.

 ---

Mayo was killed at 11:20 p.m. Monday when a civilian truck driver, who officials said was not authorized to be on the base, walked up the ramp to the Mahan and disarmed the sentry on the quarterdeck, known as the petty officer of the watch.
 
Mayo jumped in and pushed the sentry out of the line of fire, said Mario Palomino, an agent with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. By doing that, he put himself in harm’s way and was shot, Palomino said.
 
Other security officers then shot the attacker, Palomino said.

More:

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/03/commander-sailor-killed-norfolk-base-was-heroic

One detail missing from early reports is that Base Security was present in force on the pier as this was going down.  Apparently (I assume) they were responding to the presence of the truck driver, perhaps chasing him down after he entered the base, so my assumptions earlier were wrong.

"In it's most basic form the right to keep and bear arms is nothing less than the right to maintain the means of one's own self-defense. If a man chooses not to arm himself, that is his choice and right. It is NOT his right to force his choice upon me." - Me

Online Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63917
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2014, 06:51:53 AM »
Seems like a good young chap who liked his work and did his best to protect his mates.   ::thumbsup::

Who knows how far this thing could have gone had nobody tried to stop his initial aggression?!

Gotta shore up civilian access to bases some more it appears...sounds to me like there was some suspicion about his entry even though it was allowed and security was dispatched to see what he might be up to...if Mayo had not tried to save his mate and base security had not followed up on this guy it could have been a lot worse.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline OldSailor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • The world is sick and getting sicker.
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2014, 04:59:01 AM »
Seems like a good young chap who liked his work and did his best to protect his mates.   ::thumbsup::


I'd have been willing to sail with him.
"In it's most basic form the right to keep and bear arms is nothing less than the right to maintain the means of one's own self-defense. If a man chooses not to arm himself, that is his choice and right. It is NOT his right to force his choice upon me." - Me

Offline OldSailor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • The world is sick and getting sicker.
Mahan shooter ID'd
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2014, 05:02:48 AM »
A 35-year-old truck driver with a troubled past walked onto a U.S. warship Monday night, grabbed a guard’s gun and used it to kill a sailor who tried to intervene.
 
Jeffrey Tyrone Savage had taken a life once before.
 
Now investigators are trying to figure out how someone with a violent criminal record and no known business with the Navy gained easy access to the service’s largest base – home to half the nation’s fleet of aircraft carriers and dozens of other ships.
 
The Navy publicly identified Savage on Thursday and released new details about the shooting. The incident, along with Savage’s background, raises questions about a credential commonly used by civilians to gain access to military installations. The breach also calls into question standard security procedures at Norfolk Naval Station.

More here:
http://hamptonroads.com/2014/03/killer-kept-navy-base-credentials-despite-life-crime

I'm so pissed on the subject that I don't trust myself not to post something that would get me banned.  Personnel and physical security was a major part of my job in the Navy.  I wouldn't have cleared this guy to look over the fence let alone have unescorted access to the base.
"In it's most basic form the right to keep and bear arms is nothing less than the right to maintain the means of one's own self-defense. If a man chooses not to arm himself, that is his choice and right. It is NOT his right to force his choice upon me." - Me

Online Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63917
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2014, 06:51:30 AM »
People have to stop relying on these TWIC cards, they need to start doing full checks and getting bills of lading, waybills, work orders and compare info to ID's and the whole nine yards...they have to have the manpower already in place to do this and separate lanes for commercial traffic so auto & foot traffic flow isn't impaired.  Sounds like they got lax and this is the price.  It didn't have to happen.  They also have to push back harder on companies they contract with and stop giving felons access to vehicles!  I thought that was a no-brainer after 9/11!

And this BS...

“Sadly, it doesn’t shock me”!

The shrug of our times.  People used to be better about policing their own neighborhoods...now, they just sit on their asses and watch Dancing with Losers and expect SWATed up cops to handle the neerdowells...

 ::pullhair::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63917
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: A shooting Monday night aboard USS Mahan in Norfolk VA
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2014, 08:02:11 AM »
MA2 Mark Mayo to receive the Navy and Marine Corp Medal posthumously (in a private ceremony with his family prior to his) internment tomorrow Friday April 25th at Arlington National Cemetery.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=80550

We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.