Topic: Auto Industry Thread: Stories of the Destruction of the Car Business

[richb]

I was going to post a thread about the Caddy ELR today,  but decided to make a auto industry thread we all can add posts to.   There is enough going on to keep a thread going.   Its for all brands foreign and domestic (as other nations are doing a good job of destroying their car businesses too). 

It's for stories of stupid government regulation and mandates (not just the US).   Its also for for idiotic and freckless auto industry executives, out of touch union members, and for slimy dealers.  And of course the politicians running the flea circus.    Anything, anybody outside the business sees coming a million miles away, but yet the industry steps in and number two's itself.    Also stuff like greenies ridiculous demands of the industry,  even though they will buy no cars.   And how the customer gets forgotten and alienated in all of it.

Also your commentary and of course stories of how the business once was and could be,  if we could just get the politicians out of the business.   

Positive stories will be allowed as well.   There are some good things going on.  Most cars are far more reliable now,  stay nicer & last much longer then they did even 20 years ago. 

 

So I will start with the ELR story.     


Surprise, Surprise, Caddy dealers heavily discounting ELR's!

It will come as no surprise to readers of this board to hear that some Caddy dealers are now heavily discounting the electric hybrid ELR (Caddy's version of the Chevy Volt).    Worse for GM,  the dealers seem to be in Florida,  where a ELR should be in its best element (warm weather,  lots of wealthy buyers).

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/06/some-cadillac-dealers-selling-elr-at-large-discounts/

Unfortunately the ELR is like the Volt,  a car that really has no market,  and was built to satisfy goofy government mandates.   This is what happens to a auto industry that can't or won't listen to its customers,  and spends it time complying with government regulations.   Regulations that alienate its customers.   

Now the ELR was always going to be a low volume car,  but nice sheet metal alone will not sell a car.    You need the right power train and most importantly be the right price (that little point were buyers see value,  and company makes a profit, duh!).   The price is too high, and the the power train too lame.   Twenty grand cheaper,  a small block V-8 with rear wheel drive probably would have done well.   A nice American luxury car with some balls.    AKA,  a car that was once common,  but disappeared not because people didn't want to buy them anymore,  but disappeared due to regulation,  a poor economy and high gas prices.


 

[richb]

Story number 2

List of Words Banned by GM in company reports:  Yes,  really!

So instead of fixing its many problems,  GM bans words that are negative.   GM released a manual with about 65 words not allowed in company reports documenting safety or other problems with their cars. 

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/147927-list-words-gm-banning-employees-using-incompetence-finest/

Some of the word banned include viking funeral, horrific,  deathtrap, widow maker and Hindenburg.   

No, this is not a joke and not from the onion. 

[Dan]

"Viking Funeral"! Love that one!

[Pandora]

John Florida should have plenty to say about all this crap; he's been in the business a good part of his life, I think.

[Libertas]

I had documented Goobermint Moterz banned words in the Entertainment thread...

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?topic=5832.msg129863#msg129863

...as I mentioned there I thought "Rolling Sarcophagus" was hysterical!

 

What is a joke is all these dealers that got bent over the first time...many came back for a second helping that is no doubt coming...and Goobermint Moterz since they got fried has been having like a new recall every week...

Government exists to tax and regulate industry and until it stops moving and dies they will never stop....and all this bullsh*t green agenda crap does is create expensive cars with short range capabilities and long re-charge times and battery hazards to persons, equipment and precious Gaia...and the sh*t will only get worse...

[warpmine]

AS many have stated here and on other sites around the net, it won't stop until they are f**king dead and I hope to thrust my sword into the heart and proclaim it dead. Unfortunately, it's not going to die willingly nor will it just whither on the vine because most of the population are terrified beyond even their contempt of it. War must be made upon it forcing it to spend it's fuel resources until it must tax more and more to the point that a revolt explodes into reality.

Move along, nothing to see or at least nothing we can do about it.

[AlanS]

Twenty grand cheaper,  a small block V-8 with rear wheel drive probably would have done well.   A nice American luxury car with some balls.    AKA,  a car that was once common,  but disappeared not because people didn't want to buy them anymore,  but disappeared due to regulation,  a poor economy and high gas prices.

I think they'd still be wildly popular. Hot rodders have been around since the combustion engine was invented.

[richb]

Today's entry in the auto thread.

SUV the Planet.   

http://www.nationalreview.com/planet-gore/381172/suv-planet-henry-payne

In spite of even higher gas prices then here,  SUV's are becoming more popular in Europe.   Ford will be exporting the Ford Edge there to meet demand.  It's the only growing segment there.   Europeans are tired of the shoeboxes they have been forced to drive for decades,  and throwing off the chains of the liberals and driving big (or at least bigger then they were). 

Here in the US,  the SUV is rebounding and is becoming the profit center for automakers again.

Here is my comment I left there on NRO.

"""""Ironically, the SUV market we see today, developed due to CAFE rules in the 1970's. Basically, the large full size cars (think those big v-8 powered station wagons) that most Americans drove up to the 1980's were outlawed, due because they didn't get very high mileage. They never really lost popularity with the public. They disappeared because some busy bodies in government didn't like that the public drove them.

SUV's up to that point were for off roaders and were a small part of the vehicle market. All based on truck platforms, and heavy duty. People didn't drive them on roads because of the weren't as civilized as a large car of the era.

So as the large cars disappeared from the market, people still needed the greater utility and space that only a large vehicle can provide. Minivans were a stopgap measure for most, as they are underpowered (compared with the big wagons and SUV's) and cannot be a tow vehicle (yes, people used CARS to tow things in the past).

CAFE rules didn't affect trucks then, so they remained in the market place. And people started to buy and drive (and like) them. Auto makers made them more civilized, and they love the high profits they bring.

Would SUV's been as popular had regulators in DC not outlawed the large car? I am guessing, probably not. The popularity of SUV is a direct "unintended consequence" of the stupidity of the government regulating gas mileage instead of the consumer.

So is the environment better off due to people switching from big wagons to SUV's? A big wagon if they existed today (with today's tech) would likely be less harmful to the environment then the SUV people now drive. We won't know, because you cannot buy a big wagon today.  """"""

[LadyVirginia]

richb,  .


I grew up in a family of six that camped often. We had station wagons, then when those were harder to come by we tried a regular van (this was before minivans) but that didn't cut it so we got a suburban before they were SUVs lol.

[AlanS]

The automotive world is just one of many the nanny state has screwed totally.

Has anyone here bought a gas can lately?

[Pandora]

Yes, but not the plastic, non-pouring pieces of crap the EPA redesigned for us.  I bought metal jerry-cans (NATO-type) from a place Glock posted in the ............ TEOTWAWKI (I think) Section.

People still need enough room in their vehicles for more than two kids, seeing that a regular size car won't accommodate multiple bulky hi-tech babyseats or a bunch of medium to larger wigglers.

[AmericanPatriot]

I hate gas cans now!!!!
Had to buy one a few weeks ago.
Non-spill.

My ass!!!
It doesn't spill because I can't get the spring loaded nozzle to open.
I monkeyed for 20 minutes one day because I'd just spent $20 on it.
Finally, I just took the cap off and spilled all over the ground.
Now I use a funnel

[AlanS]

Finally, I just took the cap off and spilled all over the ground.
Now I use a funnel

That's what I had to resort to refueling my tractor.

Oddly enough, agricultural equipment hasn't been hit by the Nazis yet. I guess it's just a matter of time.

[AmericanPatriot]

But, back to cars and the destruction of the once great American auto industry

Ralph Nader started us down this slippery slope.

His war on the Corvair was shameful

[richb]

But, back to cars and the destruction of the once great American auto industry

Ralph Nader started us down this slippery slope.

His war on the Corvair was shameful

Here is a good article on the history of the Corvair by libertarian autowriter Eric Peters (anybody read his site?) 

http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/02/14/chevys-better-beetle/

Its hard to find history of the Corvair that doesn't completely trash it.   That's one of the reasons why I like Eric's site,  he doesn't go for that stupid PC crap.   He is one of the few auto writers willing to point out the shortcoming of politically motivated cars (electrics and hybrids) of today.   

The Corvair was a groundbreaking car in a lot of ways.  Had its reputation not been trashed by Nader, it would likely have become a large part of Chevy's line up in the 1970's since it sipped less gas then the average car.   Its also one of the reasons why automakers no longer stick their necks out with new tech as much as they once did. 

The Corvair was a unibody,  something that didn't become common until the late 1980's.   Chevy also offered a wide line of vehicles under the Corvair name including,  vans, a pickup truck,  station wagons,  convertibles as well as a four door and two door. 

[John Florida]

But, back to cars and the destruction of the once great American auto industry

Ralph Nader started us down this slippery slope.

His war on the Corvair was shameful

Here is a good article on the history of the Corvair by libertarian autowriter Eric Peters (anybody read his site?) 

http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/02/14/chevys-better-beetle/

Its hard to find history of the Corvair that doesn't completely trash it.   That's one of the reasons why I like Eric's site,  he doesn't go for that stupid PC crap.   He is one of the few auto writers willing to point out the shortcoming of politically motivated cars (electrics and hybrids) of today.   

The Corvair was a groundbreaking car in a lot of ways.  Had its reputation not been trashed by Nader, it would likely have become a large part of Chevy's line up in the 1970's since it sipped less gas then the average car.   Its also one of the reasons why automakers no longer stick their necks out with new tech as much as they once did. 

The Corvair was a unibody,  something that didn't become common until the late 1980's.   Chevy also offered a wide line of vehicles under the Corvair name including,  vans, a pickup truck,  station wagons,  convertibles as well as a four door and two door.

  Have you ever had or driven a corvair?

[John Florida]

Twenty grand cheaper,  a small block V-8 with rear wheel drive probably would have done well.   A nice American luxury car with some balls.    AKA,  a car that was once common,  but disappeared not because people didn't want to buy them anymore,  but disappeared due to regulation,  a poor economy and high gas prices.

I think they'd still be wildly popular. Hot rodders have been around since the combustion engine was invented.

 The hot rod family sedan still exists and is out there for the buying. But the public has only a very limited interest because it's not really in style anymore. Yes ther are a few but not many buyers.

Review: 2014 Chevrolet SS

[John Florida]

I was going to post a thread about the Caddy ELR today,  but decided to make a auto industry thread we all can add posts to.   There is enough going on to keep a thread going.   Its for all brands foreign and domestic (as other nations are doing a good job of destroying their car businesses too). 

It's for stories of stupid government regulation and mandates (not just the US).   Its also for for idiotic and freckless auto industry executives, out of touch union members, and for slimy dealers.  And of course the politicians running the flea circus.    Anything, anybody outside the business sees coming a million miles away, but yet the industry steps in and number two's itself.    Also stuff like greenies ridiculous demands of the industry,  even though they will buy no cars.   And how the customer gets forgotten and alienated in all of it.

Also your commentary and of course stories of how the business once was and could be,  if we could just get the politicians out of the business.   

Positive stories will be allowed as well.   There are some good things going on.  Most cars are far more reliable now,  stay nicer & last much longer then they did even 20 years ago. 

 

So I will start with the ELR story.     


Surprise, Surprise, Caddy dealers heavily discounting ELR's!

It will come as no surprise to readers of this board to hear that some Caddy dealers are now heavily discounting the electric hybrid ELR (Caddy's version of the Chevy Volt).    Worse for GM,  the dealers seem to be in Florida,  where a ELR should be in its best element (warm weather,  lots of wealthy buyers).

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/06/some-cadillac-dealers-selling-elr-at-large-discounts/

Unfortunately the ELR is like the Volt,  a car that really has no market,  and was built to satisfy goofy government mandates.   This is what happens to a auto industry that can't or won't listen to its customers,  and spends it time complying with government regulations.   Regulations that alienate its customers.   

Now the ELR was always going to be a low volume car,  but nice sheet metal alone will not sell a car.    You need the right power train and most importantly be the right price (that little point were buyers see value,  and company makes a profit, duh!).   The price is too high, and the the power train too lame.   Twenty grand cheaper,  a small block V-8 with rear wheel drive probably would have done well.   A nice American luxury car with some balls.    AKA,  a car that was once common,  but disappeared not because people didn't want to buy them anymore,  but disappeared due to regulation,  a poor economy and high gas prices.

  I hate to bust your bubble but those cars are gone because of the public not inspite of.They stopped buying them and moved on to mini vans.

[Alphabet Soup]

Have you ever had or driven a corvair?

Yes. I had a '65 Monza. Gawd that car was a blast! Every so often the fanbelt would spin off and you'd have to pull over and put it back on but it was cheap, sporty, and better looking than beetles.

[John Florida]

Have you ever had or driven a corvair?

Yes. I had a '65 Monza. Gawd that car was a blast! Every so often the fanbelt would spin off and you'd have to pull over and put it back on but it was cheap, sporty, and better looking than beetles.

 And just like the old beetles it was a death trap of a car. No front end to speak of the brakes were horrible they leaked oil like a colander and in winter the went but steering was something you hoped for.

 Fun for kids but overall a real piece of crap and it needed to be gone.