Author Topic: I don't get it! (But I am not alone!)  (Read 833 times)

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Offline Libertas

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I don't get it! (But I am not alone!)
« on: July 17, 2014, 07:51:17 AM »
http://online.wsj.com/articles/supreme-court-ruling-gives-atheists-a-prayer-1405391861

I just do not get it!

Why would someone who denies God exists give a rats ass if other people pray or not?  If they truly believe God does not exist, why do they care?  They should be truly indifferent!  It is my belief that there are many who call themselves Atheist who in fact are not Atheists.  The only context where by somebody could be offended by another person openly praying or calling or invoking the name of God is someone who has doubts, someone who deep in the musty recesses of their mind think "Gosh, what if there is a God?" and it is that doubt that makes them confront their doubt and because they feeeeel uncomfortable and because they are typically (but not always) progressive in overall orientation there is the added element of the attitude that "If I am feeling uncomfortable, it is not my fault, clearly somebody is MAKING me feeeeel this way, and those people need to be stopped at all costs no matter what it does to society or the Constitution!" coming into play.  So, instead of wobbly Atheists Manning-up and admitting their unbelief in God is shaky, they see fit to attack religion (especially those uppity Christians, who at present are an easier target than the Muzzies because unlike the latter the former is not [at present!] lopping off heads and blowing people up) in order to allow themselves to feeeel better.  And to prove my assertion some more, these wobbly Atheists embrace the trappings of religion (not the first instance!) and conduct Atheist invocations.  Again, why those who profess to believe in nothing have to act like those that believe in God mystifies me.  I wonder if these people, if they have a young daughter who likes to have pretend tea parties with pretend guests, if they go absolutely bonkers and shut that activity down because talking and drinking tea with someone and something that does not exist is just so weird?!  Again, if you are convinced it does not exist, why care?  How can someone who thinks they believe in something be harmful to you who beleives there is nothing there to begin with?  Show me the proof!

In the end, it is not just myself who fails to get it when it comes to the odd behaviors of professed Atheists, there seem to be plenty of professed Atheists who do not understand their own beliefs!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 07:56:20 AM by Libertas »
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: I don't get it! (But I am not alone!)
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2014, 09:27:24 AM »
I've encountered more than a few of these lost souls lately on the blog warz. There is a commonality to them that I've noticed. The first and most obvious is that they are outspoken in their unhappiness. They are the height of disgruntlement. They are miserable and misery loves company. They're easy to spot because in the sea of commentary theirs stand out so strongly. Their expressed opinions are always a little meaner, a little cruder, and a little more cutting. They tend to be bombastic and hyper-critical and they are uniformly negative regarding just about everything.

The second thing is the admission by many of them of having abandoned their faith. Their exhortations may vary but not the animus they hold against a faith they feeeeeeel has betrayed them. Some will claim "I didn't leave the church - the church left me" but that is conscience-salving BS.

One thing to keep in mind is that these aren't really atheists - they're anti-theists. Sane people don't spend waste their time attempting to prove negatives. A true agnostic or atheist has no need to proselytize - they just go about their business. Anti-theists OTOH feeeeeeeeel a need not only to trash their former faith and mock anyone who expresses or shows faith, but to recruit others to their black hole.

I find them obnoxious critters and generally intolerable.

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: I don't get it! (But I am not alone!)
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2014, 10:53:35 AM »
A true atheist would have no antagonism toward religiosity so long as the religiosity does not infringe on their own rights. That tells us what we need to know about the antagonistic motivation of the so-called atheists. As Soup says, they are anti-theists.

A true atheist that I admire is Anthony Daniels (aka Theodore Dalrymple). Listening to he and Dennis Prager debate theology made me realize even more, the difference between atheism and anti-theism.

A Dalrymple quote I like is: "To regret religion is to regret Western civilization."

And there you have the answer to the anti-theist puzzle, in a nutshell.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: I don't get it! (But I am not alone!)
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 11:25:14 AM »
That's a good term, I must remember that... "anti-theist".   ::thumbsup::

"A true agnostic or atheist has no need to proselytize - they just go about their business."

My point exactly!   ::thumbsup::
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Offline Pablo de Fleurs

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Re: I don't get it! (But I am not alone!)
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2014, 06:36:45 PM »
RZIM's John Njoroge had a good entry on this morning's 'Slice of Infinity'


On Defining Atheism
by J.M. Njoroge http://www.rzim.org/a-slice-of-infinity/on-defining-atheism/

A popular tendency among some atheists these days is to define atheism, not as the positive thesis that God does not exist, but as the neutral claim that an atheist is one who simply lacks belief in God. If we could scan the mind of the atheist and catalogue all the beliefs the atheist holds, we would not find a belief of the form, “God exists.” Those who insist on defining atheism in this manner want to avoid the implications of having to defend the claim that God does not exist. They demand justification for faith in God while insisting that they bear no rational burdens in the debate since they are not making any positive claims on the question of God’s existence.

Internet AtheismThis strategy is mistaken on several levels. To begin with, there is no logical connection between a lack of belief about God in someone’s mind and the conclusion that God does not exist. At best, this definition leads us to agnosticism, roughly the view that we do not know whether or not God exists. For example, there are millions of people on this planet who hold no belief about the Los Angeles Lakers. But it would be quite a stretch to conclude from that empirical fact that the Lakers therefore do not exist.

Additionally, atheism thus defined is a psychological condition, not a cognitive thesis. Conduct a quick search on the Internet, and you will even find atheists who claim that babies are atheists because they lack belief in God. But, as some philosophers have pointed out, that is not a flattering state of affairs for the atheist, for, strictly speaking, a cow, by that definition, is also an atheist. For someone who is intent on merely giving a report about the state of his or her mind, pity, or an equivalent emotion, is the appropriate response, not a reasoned exchange. But nobody who has reflected long and hard about the issues and is prepared to argue vehemently about them should be let off the hook that easily.

In any case, such a definition of atheism goes against the intuitions held by almost everyone who has not been initiated into this way of thinking. In spite of the myriads of nuances one can give to one’s preferred version of denying God’s existence, the traditional view has been that there are ultimately only three attitudes one can take with regard to a particular proposition. Take the proposition, “God exists”. One could

   
  • affirm the proposition, which is theism,
  • Deny the proposition, which is atheism, or
  • withhold judgment with regard to the proposition, which is agnosticism.

   
Those who affirm the proposition have to give reasons why they think it is true. Those who deny it have to give reasons why they think it is false. Only those who withhold judgment have the right to sit on the fence on the issue. Thus J. J. C. Smart states matter-of-factly, “‘Atheism’ means the negation of theism, the denial of the existence of God.”1

Nor will an attempt to defend this new definition on the basis of the etymology of the word “atheist” work. The word “atheist” is from the Greek word “Theos” which means “God”, and the “a” is the negation. The “a” is taken to mean “without”, and hence “atheism” simply means “without belief in God”. But this will not do. Even if we grant that the “a” means “without”, we will still not arrive at the conclusion that atheism means “without belief in God”. What is negated in the word “atheism” is not “belief” but “God”. Atheism still means “without God”, not “without belief”. There is no concept of “belief” in the etymology of the word – the word simply means the universe is without God, which is another way of saying that God does not exist.

Semantic quibbles aside, there are deeper problems with this position. The same atheists who decry the irrationality of believing in God still insist on shoehorning theistic ideas into their ontology. Most of them continue to defend the meaning and purpose of life, the validity of objective morality and the assurance that humanity is marching on towards progress and would move thus faster were it not for the shackles of religion. Such cosmic optimism would be unrecognizable to the most prominent atheists of yesteryear, not to mention the many in our day who say as much. It is recognized as a remnant of a biblical tradition that still has some of its grip on the western psyche.

Speaking about the belief that every human life needs to be protected, Richard Rorty wrote, “This Jewish and Christian element in our tradition is gratefully invoked by free-loading atheists like myself.” 2 But if God does not exist, theists live on false hope, and the freeloaders fair no better. Sever the cord between God and those elements of the Judeo-Christian tradition, and the honest among us fly into oblivion with shrills of despair to which only a Nietzsche or a Jean Paul Sartre can do full justice; for the validity of such positive attitudes about life is directly propositional to the plausibility of the existence of a caring God who directs the affairs of mankind.
____________________________________________________________________________

J.M. Njoroge is a member of the speaking team at Ravi Zacharias International Ministries in Atlanta, Georgia.

1 J. J. C. Smart, “Atheism and Agnosticism”, The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Spring 2013 Edition), Edward N. Zalta (ed.).
2 Richard Rorty, “Postmodernist Bourgeois Liberalism,” in The Journal of Philosophy, Vol. 80, No. 10, Part 1: (Oct., 1983), pp. 583-589.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 06:41:48 PM by Pablo de Fleurs »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: I don't get it! (But I am not alone!)
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2014, 09:28:31 PM »
Good post Pablo, but to me the Lakers do not exist, they belong to Minneapolis, there are no lakes in LA either!  The name in LA is a misnomer, I would have picked a different example.

 ;D
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.