Author Topic: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand  (Read 9503 times)

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Offline rickl

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Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« on: April 23, 2011, 08:42:16 PM »
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The motion picture Atlas Shrugged - Part 1 was released in theaters last week, and coupled with the positively prophetic mapping of the plot of Atlas Shrugged to current events, Ayn Rand and her Objectivist Philosophy are front-burner topics.  I know that many Christians read Rand and want to stand up and cheer, but at the same time are racked with guilt because of her atheism and decidedly anti-church professions.  Can Rand be reconciled to the Gospel?  Can Christians read and learn from Rand's writings?  I say yes, and emphatically so.

From American Thinker.  An interesting take.  Barnhardt is a Catholic, and Rand was an outspoken atheist.  Through the years, many conservatives have disliked her for that reason.  But we're on the same side in the fight for the future of America, and it's good to see an attempt to bridge the gap.

Theological debates are generally above my pay grade, but there is a lot of discussion in the comments over there and Barnhardt herself is a participant.  Read the whole thing.

Reconciling Rand with the Gospel
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline John Florida

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2011, 08:52:01 PM »
I don't even know how to comment on this one.
All men are created equal"
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2011, 09:05:26 PM »
The first commenter said it all anyway:

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Posted by: Randy Fardal   
Apr 23, 01:40 AM
The messenger has nothing to do with her message anyway. If a young child says that the emperor has no clothes, should his accurate observation be declared false only because he has no official standing to comment? If Charles Manson published beautiful poetry anonymously, should it be reclassified as vulgar when its author is revealed? Is E = mc^2 Jewish because Albert Einstein first observed it?

Offline rickl

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2011, 09:25:53 PM »
Keep on reading the comments, though.  It's a lively discussion.  Some praise Barnhardt's thesis, while others criticize her interpretation of the Gospel, while still others criticize her interpretation of Objectivist philosophy.  It's all good!

I finally couldn't help diving in myself.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline John Florida

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2011, 09:41:37 PM »
Keep on reading the comments, though.  It's a lively discussion.  Some praise Barnhardt's thesis, while others criticize her interpretation of the Gospel, while still others criticize her interpretation of Objectivist philosophy.  It's all good!

I finally couldn't help diving in myself.
Nice work there Rick.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2011, 10:01:01 PM »
Interesting piece. A wee bit reminiscent of our discussion of the Fibonacci Numbers.

More and more, Christians are making the case that faith in God is the logical path, arrived at by the most sound reasoning. Noting that the Apostle John named Christ the "Word", the Greek being "logos" - logic, reason - certainly indicates that at the very least, the Apostle John believed his faith to be rooted in reason. And why wouldn't he? He witnessed the events leading to the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.

Here's the thing that really nailed my ass to the wall when I was deciding for myself if I believed that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Given that it is a fact that the New Testament is among the most supported writings of antiquity in regard to original copies made from original manuscripts historically near the time of origin, we can be as sure as we can of any other such writings that the historical aspects are true as interpreted by the author - faith aspects set aside. We don't question the authenticity of the works of Aristotle or Plato, and their works are far less supported by original copies made from original manuscripts, and those copies are far more removed from the time in which the original manuscripts are written than is the New Testament. So using the scientific standard for judging the authenticity of writings of antiquity, the New Testament is historically among the most supported.

So in regard to the faith aspect, we can look at clues in the historical record to support our reasoning. And in that, I find this amazing...

As Christ was tried, convicted, tortured, and executed, his closest allies - his Disciples - were scattered, hiding, living in fear of their lives. In the days and weeks following his execution, what little record there is finds them meeting secretly in upper rooms. They were terrified, robbed of their Messiah in the flesh, their faith in his resurrection challenged and squelched by the reality of the horror of his death.

But then the Gospel says he came into their midst, alive again, and dwelt with them. After he departed their company again, when scripture says He ascended to heaven, a radical transformation occurred in those disciples. Men who were cowering in upper rooms in fear of their lives suddenly fanned out across the land with no thought to their personal safety, and preached the deity of Jesus Christ. Men who surely knew that proclaiming association with the man Jesus of Nazarath - whom Jerusalem had just witnessed being put to the most gruesome public execution - was akin to begging for the same to be visited upon themselves. Not only did they preach the Gospel of Christ, proclaiming Him God - the exact charge for which He had been killed - but they directly challenged the Jewish hierarchy, publicly ridiculing, shaming, humiliating them. They engaged in this behavior unto their own executions, refusing to renounce Christ unto death.

I had to ask myself what would transform men so? What would transform men who had just witnessed the torture and execution of their spiritual leader from cowering in upper rooms denying association with Him, into men willing to stand by His message and ministry unto their own death? After all, men do not walk to their own execution for something they believe or know to be a lie.

And there is my reality. The disciples were not transformed because they believed Jesus was the Son of God. They were transformed because they knew it.

Whether they were correct in what they knew is irrelevant to the fact that they knew it to be the truth. They lived it. They saw it with their own eyes. Reason dictated to them what the truth was. They arrived at the only conclusion they could, and it was not reached by faith, but by reason.

So that is the long way of saying that I think Ann Barnhardt makes a really good point. Reason is not owned by the non-religious, and faith is not void of reason. The fact that Ayn Rand was non-religious is irrelevant to the notion that she could very easily have reasoned herself to the very same conclusion as that of a religious person, and thus, Christians should not dismiss her philosophy as incompatible with Christianity.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 10:05:00 PM by IronDioPriest »
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline trapeze

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2011, 10:26:31 PM »
Well said and well reasoned.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline John Florida

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2011, 10:35:35 PM »
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline rickl

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2011, 10:36:03 PM »
IDP, you ought to consider putting that in a comment over there.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2011, 10:45:25 PM »
IDP, you ought to consider putting that in a comment over there.

I did.  ::thumbsup:: It's awaiting moderation.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline rickl

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2011, 10:52:03 PM »
I'm not sure how the formatting works over there.  In my second comment, the paragraph breaks disappeared. 

I've had comments at American Thinker vanish without a trace.  I don't know whether HTML tags work there or not.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2011, 10:57:51 PM »
I'm not sure how the formatting works over there.  In my second comment, the paragraph breaks disappeared. 

I've had comments at American Thinker vanish without a trace.  I don't know whether HTML tags work there or not.

Something's screwy. It seems like they banned me. Is there a prohibition there against links? I put a link in my comment to the Fibonacci thread, just like I did here. But my comment isn't appearing, and I noticed I was logged out, so I tried logging back in, and it says my username/password is not found.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline rickl

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2011, 11:09:05 PM »
I looked at their "Contact" heading, and it talks about submission of articles but doesn't say anything about comments.  Maybe try it again without the link?

Like I said, I've had problems with comments there in the past.  Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, and I don't know why.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2011, 11:12:34 PM »
I looked at their "Contact" heading, and it talks about submission of articles but doesn't say anything about comments.  Maybe try it again without the link?

Like I said, I've had problems with comments there in the past.  Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, and I don't know why.

I can't login. I think they banned me.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2011, 11:15:59 PM »
Sure as sh*t.

Quote
- No links to personal blogs, personal YouTube or other videos, or product sales.
- No embedded formatting commands...
- No republication of material from other blogs (short quotations from and links to outside sources that support an argument are allowed)...
- AT is a secular publication, so comments aimed at witnessing or proselytizing for a faith are not permitted.

Looks like I passed up the misdemeanor and went right for the felony.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline rickl

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2011, 11:26:47 PM »
Where did you find that?  I was looking for comments rules but couldn't find them.

The prohibition on embedded formatting commands might explain why some of my past comments failed to appear, but that doesn't explain why the paragraph breaks disappeared in my second comment on that thread.  Other comments have them.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

charlesoakwood

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2011, 11:28:08 PM »

If your going to do it you may as well run the table.


Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2011, 11:31:16 PM »
Where did you find that?  I was looking for comments rules but couldn't find them.

The prohibition on embedded formatting commands might explain why some of my past comments failed to appear, but that doesn't explain why the paragraph breaks disappeared in my second comment on that thread.  Other comments have them.

You click on where it says the number of comments. Then on the page that opens, just to the right of the title, "Comments Rules". I never looked, and they never warned. Just outright banned.

Not my kinda place then, I guess.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline rickl

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2011, 11:40:10 PM »
Yeah, that's not at all obvious, and easy to miss.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Ann Barnhardt on Ayn Rand
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2011, 12:22:41 AM »
Yeah, that's not at all obvious, and easy to miss.

No doubt. I certainly would've not set out with the intent to disobey the rules.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson