Author Topic: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking  (Read 10170 times)

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Offline warpmine

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Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« on: April 25, 2011, 03:59:11 PM »
From http://alfin2300.blogspot.com/

About fracking:

...the whole anti-fracking movement has its head where the sun doesn’t shine – and here are just ten reasons why.

1.Hydraulic fracking has been around for 60 years. Developments made by U.S. engineers around 2008-9 have simply made the process much more commercially viable.
2.Since fracking was introduced in 1949, over 2 million frack treatments have been pumped without a single documented case of treatments polluting a water aquifer.
3.90 percent of all gas wells drilled in the United States since 1949 have been fracked.
4.The depth of most shale gas deposits drilled is between 6,000 and 10,000 feet – water aquifers exist at an average depth of 500 feet.
5.Claims of ‘migration’ between the shale gas layers and water aquifers due to fracking or for any other reason, are patently absurd as the gas would have to pass through millions of tons of impermeable rock. If the rock was that porous, neither the water nor the gas would have been there in the first place. (As the hard data in fig. 1 from a study of 15,000 frac treatments in the Barnett Shale Field reveals plainly.)
6.Fracture design engineers go to great lengths to avoid fracture growth of even 100 feet to prevent losing production.
7.The new eco-horror genre flicks like Josh Fox’s Gasland, create impact by making outrageous claims which include suggesting “569 chemicals” are used in a single “toxic cocktail” frack treatment. The reality is that 99.5 percent of the treatment is water and sand. Much of the remainder is made up of a maximum of 12 or so harmless gelling agents, like Guar gum (used in ice cream making), and chemicals commonly used around the house.
8.Domestic running water faucets being set alight with a match might wow gullible film audiences, but dissolved methane found in well water may well be biogenic (naturally occurring). As the largest component in natural gas, methane is not even regulated as it is not toxic and escapes naturally like soda bubbles.
9.Hydraulic fracking procedures are heavily regulated and not, as often claimed by eco-activists, exempt from drinking water and other key regulatory laws.
10.Concerns about using “excessive water resources” in the process are already being assuaged by new developments, including recycling water. And the U.S. Ground Water Protection Council confirms that drilling with compressed air is becoming increasingly common.

With all the proglodyte poo poo-ing the fracking process, I figured that we could use the info to refute their claims. ::cool::
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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2011, 04:11:00 PM »
Thanks for that, warpmine!  I sure will be using that as refudiation elsewhere.

One little nitpick?  There is no "k" in the short-form for frac-turing known as fracing, unless you want to go with frac(k)ing.  The piece's author should have known that.

Ah, maybe he just figured, 'the hell with it'.

eta:  Here's the link directly to the post:

http://alfin2300.blogspot.com/2011/04/about-fracking-gtl-offshore-and-ctl-in.html
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 04:26:06 PM by Pandora »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2011, 07:10:42 PM »
Unfortunately, most Americans won't bother reading all of that, they'll buy into the MFM meme and have no reasoning capacity to investigate further.  But this is a good rundown of the points.  I was aware of the depths far below aquifers and the sand/water mix, but the length, scale, gelling agents and the rest are welcome additions to our arsenal of knowledge.  Good find!

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Offline rickl

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 07:12:24 PM »
"Fracing" looks like it should rhyme with "racing".
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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 07:17:38 PM »
"Fracing" looks like it should rhyme with "racing".

I know.  I don't know why the gurus didn't just call it "fracting" instead; it would have saved a whole lotta nit-picking.
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Offline rickl

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2011, 07:21:36 PM »
"Fracing" looks like it should rhyme with "racing".

I know.  I don't know why the gurus didn't just call it "fracting" instead; it would have saved a whole lotta nit-picking.

That's a great idea.  It makes perfect sense.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2011, 10:51:02 PM »
"Fracing" looks like it should rhyme with "racing".

I know.  I don't know why the gurus didn't just call it "fracting" instead; it would have saved a whole lotta nit-picking.

People that do oil don't put t's after c's, it's unnatural.


Offline Glock32

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2011, 11:02:36 PM »
Furthermore, why is kerosene spelled "kerosine" in the petroleum industry? Ever notice it on the blue cans? It's not a misprint. There's even something in the FAQ at the can manufacturer's website.
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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2011, 11:50:13 AM »
"Fracing" looks like it should rhyme with "racing".

I know.  I don't know why the gurus didn't just call it "fracting" instead; it would have saved a whole lotta nit-picking.

The answer is simple. They're Battlstar Galactica fans.

The Fracking Woman of Battlestar Galactica
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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2011, 03:04:04 PM »
I always thought that was spelled as "fraacking".
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blue079

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2011, 03:50:23 PM »
I've done several months of research on fracking, and I don't mean reading a few one-sided "facts" I found on a website or watching "Gasland".. I mean real research.

Here's my rebuttal to your "easy facts," listed in the same order:

1. Hydraulic fracturing was first used 60 years ago, at a time when people thought swallowing a tapeworm was a great idea to lose weight and using lard in every meal was good for you. Really, the only changes the "U.S. engineers" made to hydraulic fracturing was converting it from vertical drilling to horizontal, making fracking more profitable, but riskier. So commercially viable, yes, safer and more efficient... um no.

2. How about the settlement between Cabot Oil & Gas and the 19 residents of Dimock, PA? There's 19 documented cases right there in one incident. Cabot Oil & Gas agreed to pay the residents millions and to provide them with an alternative water source for contaminating their water from a fracked well that was not properly sealed.

3. Just because 90% of all wells have been fracked doesn't mean it's safe. That statistic refers to all fracked wells, not just the horizontally fracked ones which is what us "proglodytes" are "poo-pooing" about anyway.

4. The fracking well depth doesn't matter in this issue. What matters is the open evaporation pit which holds the used fracking fluid. The pit is either not lined at all or it's lined with a simple tarp, leaking all that fracking water back into the ground. In addition, evaporation pumps are installed in the pits to help evaporate the fracking water into the air. So not only are we going to be drinking the chemicals, we'll be inhaling them also.

5. You're right, the fracking chemicals don't "migrate" into the aquifers through millions of tons of impermeable rock. Fracking intentionally creates fractures in the rock. Through those fractures is where the gas (and the fracking fluid) escape towards the surface... hence the name hydraulic FRACTURing. And all that "hard data" in that graph doesn't mean anything to anyone other than the person who made it. There's no explanation and no citation where it came from.

6. So what, of course they do...  everyone knows it's all about money. The oil and gas companies go to even greater lengths to cut corners to reduce costs. Now tell us all something we don't know.

7. This "fact" is actually kind of funny considering the chemicals used in Halliburton's fracking process are actually listed on their website and there's a lot more than 12 chemicals on there. Some of them are found in "frozen peas," (hey that sounds safe) "industrial metal cleaner," and "industrial acid corrosion inhibitors." Even if these chemicals aren't toxic, I still don't want to drink them or bathe in them, do you?
And what about all the unknown chemicals that every oil and gas company refuses to disclose? No one can properly regulate this industry if no one knows what the chemicals are. Thanks to the loophole created by Dick Cheney, Halliburton's ex-CEO, in the Energy Policy Act of 2005, the companies do not have to disclose all of the chemicals used.

8. Being able to light your faucet water on fire scares more people than it "wows" considering that you can potentially cause an explosion in your water well by doing that. Yes, methane gas can naturally be present in drinking water, but not in the concentrations being found in the wells of the people who can light their water on fire. You aren't going to drink water that smalls like gas. And you ignored the fact that those people couldn't even do that before the oil companies started fracking in their back yard. Sorry, but you don't see or hear about incidents like that from people who are not close to a fracked well.

9. That is just a plain lie. Under the Energy Policy Act, everything related to hydraulic fracturing and oil and gas extraction and production is specifically exempt from the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Federal Water Pollution Control Act and the Clean Air Act. You can look it up yourself... they are all amended to include those exemptions. This shouldn't be regulated at the state level anyway, this is happening countrywide, not just in a few states.
And by the way, this has nothing to do with "eco-activism." It has to do with everyone's health.

10. How much water do you think they actually "recycle" to be able to make that claim? Do you have those numbers... does anyone? And how often is the water re-used before it's useless? One well can be fracked up to 18 times. The oil and gas companies claim that half the water that is forced underground does not come back up. It gets absorbed into the ground. Where does that go? It definitely, 100% does not ever rejoin other water sources? Is that what I am supposed to believe?

So I've debunked each and every one of your "facts" that you copy and pasted from somewhere else. You can even go ahead and do your own research, and I'm not talking about reading someone's opinion from a blog. You'll see that what I've said is backed up by actual facts that come from sources who are involved in the process. Do you really think these oil and gas companies are looking out for you, that they really care? They don't live in the places they drill, they don't give a sh*t what happens to our country. These oil companies are worldwide.. WORLDWIDE.. they don't pay that much attention to the little things like residents. And if there is a problem they settle out of court for a few million, mere pennies to them, and have everyone involved sign non-disclosure agreements, and move on.

Don't be a fool, there are no "easy facts" about this. It's a very complicated and political issue that will be debated and fought over for years.


From http://alfin2300.blogspot.com/

About fracking:

...the whole anti-fracking movement has its head where the sun doesn’t shine – and here are just ten reasons why.

1.Hydraulic fracking has been around for 60 years. Developments made by U.S. engineers around 2008-9 have simply made the process much more commercially viable.
2.Since fracking was introduced in 1949, over 2 million frack treatments have been pumped without a single documented case of treatments polluting a water aquifer.
3.90 percent of all gas wells drilled in the United States since 1949 have been fracked.
4.The depth of most shale gas deposits drilled is between 6,000 and 10,000 feet – water aquifers exist at an average depth of 500 feet.
5.Claims of ‘migration’ between the shale gas layers and water aquifers due to fracking or for any other reason, are patently absurd as the gas would have to pass through millions of tons of impermeable rock. If the rock was that porous, neither the water nor the gas would have been there in the first place. (As the hard data in fig. 1 from a study of 15,000 frac treatments in the Barnett Shale Field reveals plainly.)
6.Fracture design engineers go to great lengths to avoid fracture growth of even 100 feet to prevent losing production.
7.The new eco-horror genre flicks like Josh Fox’s Gasland, create impact by making outrageous claims which include suggesting “569 chemicals” are used in a single “toxic cocktail” frack treatment. The reality is that 99.5 percent of the treatment is water and sand. Much of the remainder is made up of a maximum of 12 or so harmless gelling agents, like Guar gum (used in ice cream making), and chemicals commonly used around the house.
8.Domestic running water faucets being set alight with a match might wow gullible film audiences, but dissolved methane found in well water may well be biogenic (naturally occurring). As the largest component in natural gas, methane is not even regulated as it is not toxic and escapes naturally like soda bubbles.
9.Hydraulic fracking procedures are heavily regulated and not, as often claimed by eco-activists, exempt from drinking water and other key regulatory laws.
10.Concerns about using “excessive water resources” in the process are already being assuaged by new developments, including recycling water. And the U.S. Ground Water Protection Council confirms that drilling with compressed air is becoming increasingly common.

With all the proglodyte poo poo-ing the fracking process, I figured that we could use the info to refute their claims. ::cool::

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2011, 04:45:01 PM »
I've done several months of research on fracking, and I don't mean reading a few one-sided "facts" I found on a website or watching "Gasland".. I mean real research.

Here's my rebuttal to your "easy facts," listed in the same order:

1. Hydraulic fracturing was first used 60 years ago, at a time when people thought swallowing a tapeworm was a great idea to lose weight and using lard in every meal was good for you. Really, the only changes the "U.S. engineers" made to hydraulic fracturing was converting it from vertical drilling to horizontal, making fracking more profitable, but riskier. So commercially viable, yes, safer and more efficient... um no.

2. How about the settlement between Cabot Oil & Gas and the 19 residents of Dimock, PA? There's 19 documented cases right there in one incident. Cabot Oil & Gas agreed to pay the residents millions and to provide them with an alternative water source for contaminating their water from a fracked well that was not properly sealed.

3. Just because 90% of all wells have been fracked doesn't mean it's safe. That statistic refers to all fracked wells, not just the horizontally fracked ones which is what us "proglodytes" are "poo-pooing" about anyway.

4. The fracking well depth doesn't matter in this issue. What matters is the open evaporation pit which holds the used fracking fluid. The pit is either not lined at all or it's lined with a simple tarp, leaking all that fracking water back into the ground. In addition, evaporation pumps are installed in the pits to help evaporate the fracking water into the air. So not only are we going to be drinking the chemicals, we'll be inhaling them also.

5. You're right, the fracking chemicals don't "migrate" into the aquifers through millions of tons of impermeable rock. Fracking intentionally creates fractures in the rock. Through those fractures is where the gas (and the fracking fluid) escape towards the surface... hence the name hydraulic FRACTURing. And all that "hard data" in that graph doesn't mean anything to anyone other than the person who made it. There's no explanation and no citation where it came from.

6. So what, of course they do...  everyone knows it's all about money. The oil and gas companies go to even greater lengths to cut corners to reduce costs. Now tell us all something we don't know.

7. This "fact" is actually kind of funny considering the chemicals used in Halliburton's fracking process are actually listed on their website and there's a lot more than 12 chemicals on there. Some of them are found in "frozen peas," (hey that sounds safe) "industrial metal cleaner," and "industrial acid corrosion inhibitors." Even if these chemicals aren't toxic, I still don't want to drink them or bathe in them, do you?
And what about all the unknown chemicals that every oil and gas company refuses to disclose? No one can properly regulate this industry if no one knows what the chemicals are. Thanks to the loophole created by Dick Cheney, Halliburton's ex-CEO, in the Energy Policy Act of 2005, the companies do not have to disclose all of the chemicals used.

8. Being able to light your faucet water on fire scares more people than it "wows" considering that you can potentially cause an explosion in your water well by doing that. Yes, methane gas can naturally be present in drinking water, but not in the concentrations being found in the wells of the people who can light their water on fire. You aren't going to drink water that smalls like gas. And you ignored the fact that those people couldn't even do that before the oil companies started fracking in their back yard. Sorry, but you don't see or hear about incidents like that from people who are not close to a fracked well.

9. That is just a plain lie. Under the Energy Policy Act, everything related to hydraulic fracturing and oil and gas extraction and production is specifically exempt from the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Federal Water Pollution Control Act and the Clean Air Act. You can look it up yourself... they are all amended to include those exemptions. This shouldn't be regulated at the state level anyway, this is happening countrywide, not just in a few states.
And by the way, this has nothing to do with "eco-activism." It has to do with everyone's health.

10. How much water do you think they actually "recycle" to be able to make that claim? Do you have those numbers... does anyone? And how often is the water re-used before it's useless? One well can be fracked up to 18 times. The oil and gas companies claim that half the water that is forced underground does not come back up. It gets absorbed into the ground. Where does that go? It definitely, 100% does not ever rejoin other water sources? Is that what I am supposed to believe?

So I've debunked each and every one of your "facts" that you copy and pasted from somewhere else. You can even go ahead and do your own research, and I'm not talking about reading someone's opinion from a blog. You'll see that what I've said is backed up by actual facts that come from sources who are involved in the process. Do you really think these oil and gas companies are looking out for you, that they really care? They don't live in the places they drill, they don't give a sh*t what happens to our country. These oil companies are worldwide.. WORLDWIDE.. they don't pay that much attention to the little things like residents. And if there is a problem they settle out of court for a few million, mere pennies to them, and have everyone involved sign non-disclosure agreements, and move on.

Don't be a fool, there are no "easy facts" about this. It's a very complicated and political issue that will be debated and fought over for years.


From http://alfin2300.blogspot.com/

About fracking:

...the whole anti-fracking movement has its head where the sun doesn’t shine – and here are just ten reasons why.

1.Hydraulic fracking has been around for 60 years. Developments made by U.S. engineers around 2008-9 have simply made the process much more commercially viable.
2.Since fracking was introduced in 1949, over 2 million frack treatments have been pumped without a single documented case of treatments polluting a water aquifer.
3.90 percent of all gas wells drilled in the United States since 1949 have been fracked.
4.The depth of most shale gas deposits drilled is between 6,000 and 10,000 feet – water aquifers exist at an average depth of 500 feet.
5.Claims of ‘migration’ between the shale gas layers and water aquifers due to fracking or for any other reason, are patently absurd as the gas would have to pass through millions of tons of impermeable rock. If the rock was that porous, neither the water nor the gas would have been there in the first place. (As the hard data in fig. 1 from a study of 15,000 frac treatments in the Barnett Shale Field reveals plainly.)
6.Fracture design engineers go to great lengths to avoid fracture growth of even 100 feet to prevent losing production.
7.The new eco-horror genre flicks like Josh Fox’s Gasland, create impact by making outrageous claims which include suggesting “569 chemicals” are used in a single “toxic cocktail” frack treatment. The reality is that 99.5 percent of the treatment is water and sand. Much of the remainder is made up of a maximum of 12 or so harmless gelling agents, like Guar gum (used in ice cream making), and chemicals commonly used around the house.
8.Domestic running water faucets being set alight with a match might wow gullible film audiences, but dissolved methane found in well water may well be biogenic (naturally occurring). As the largest component in natural gas, methane is not even regulated as it is not toxic and escapes naturally like soda bubbles.
9.Hydraulic fracking procedures are heavily regulated and not, as often claimed by eco-activists, exempt from drinking water and other key regulatory laws.
10.Concerns about using “excessive water resources” in the process are already being assuaged by new developments, including recycling water. And the U.S. Ground Water Protection Council confirms that drilling with compressed air is becoming increasingly common.

With all the proglodyte poo poo-ing the fracking process, I figured that we could use the info to refute their claims. ::cool::

blue079, I've read pieces like yours, but the commenter did bother to include the Propublica link at the time.

I've got a suggestion for you.  Go to this site:

http://www.grouchyconservativepundits.com/index.php

There are a few oil and gas men there, as in geologists, and make your case.  Wear your armor.

Bu-bye.

"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Glock32

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2011, 07:21:06 PM »
So another prog who deigns to sit back and make idle pronouncements on how awful the energy industry is, but lacking the conviction to live a lifestyle divorced from its fruits? By my tabulations that would be, why yes, all of them.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2011, 09:25:03 AM »
I have to go with Blue079 on this one.  I have done a fair amount of research on this as  they are doing Horizontal drilling about 40 miles from my Teotwaki place.  Right now its just test wells. Yes in one aspect I am jazzed about . having Natural Gas production going on so close, however this can potentially go horribly wrong.  Blue is right that there just aren't that many horizontal wells in use that we really know how dangerous this is. It might be entirely benign, and it might be disasterous 50% or more of the time.  My guess is that its somewhere between the two - wh just don't have the data to say which.  Nor is that to say that we should therefore not find out -  as the BP rig shows,  there are risks to any sort of energy extraction.  The question is if the benefits exceed the risks, and who will make that decision.

I am not so much worried about the Chemical pits - that are almost entirely water, so even unless there is something really toxic in there, its unlikely to ever build up in any signifcant concentration to harm anything. However,  this is rock fracturing.   You are exploiting whatever crakcs in the rocks exist and making them wider. That means its likely to fracture more where there are already cracks, and how far that crack system extends towards the surface is anyone's guess.  That is why, yes, you might have Methane bubbling upwards to the aquifers.
I am sure given a solid strata above that its relatively safe... but how do they confirm the starta above it is solid in all of the relevant places?
In my case the wells are 10,000 feet deep.. Is there a fault or a crack leading up 2 miles to the surface?  These  are the rocky mountains, so there are faults all over the place and yes, they could extend that deep. 

the real problem isn't that its NOT safe, but that we don't know how safe they are, or in what conditions they are safe. There are documentated cases that at least suggest groundwater contamination.  In Agentina they used this process a lot (after the collaspe)  and the cliam is that yeah, they have a lot of methane inflitrating the water.  Now if you come up with a process for extracting that methane and then useing the water, your well just turned into a cool fuel source,  but it also begs the questions of what else is beeing leeched out of the rocks -- and I am not talking about the Hydro-fluid they pump in.  You can get arsenic, uranium salts and all sort so of bad stuff coming up in my area.  Which is why they are conducting a regular well testing program through a 3rd party lab  - you start seeing problems with the local water, you shut the drilling down. Yes, there could be lasting damage, or the damage might dissipate. Its science after all. Its how you learn. So you do the best you can to mitigate the risks, and then go ahead. With that siad, I do sympathize with peoplee closer to the drill site.. (its pretty rural however)  I understand perfectly thier NIMBY attitdue. Of course if the process is safe, then those are the same  people who are going to get paid when wells are drilled on their land.

 

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2011, 10:31:34 AM »
Weisshaupt, none of us here have a problem with the presentation of new information in the form of facts, or even speculation, on any issue, and had Blue079 had introduced his opinion in a less adversarial, confrontational and derisive manner, he'd still be welcome here. 

The issue is definitely worth discussion, although I believe it's fair to say few to none of us are well-versed on the subject; I'm pretty ignorant on it myself and am more than willing to learn.

What I'm not willing to do is treat with anyone who joins the forum for the purposes of pulling the "how stupid are you people" in their very first post -- or any post.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2011, 11:46:21 AM »
Weisshaupt, none of us here have a problem with the presentation of new information in the form of facts, or even speculation, on any issue, and had Blue079 had introduced his opinion in a less adversarial, confrontational and derisive manner, he'd still be welcome here. 

Maybe  my time doing verbal warfare on KOS has made me less sensitive, or the fact hat Blue079 actually made an argument citing specific fact and encouraged us to research them impressed me by the sheer uniqueness of it on the left, but my "troll alarm" didn't register on that one.   Yes, there is in implication that we are fools if we blindly listen to what Oil experts say when their livelihood is dependant on there not being a problem - just as Global Warming proponents are fools for listening to what climate experts whose grants are dependant upon them finding a "problem", but ad-hominem was really kept to a minimum for what I am used to. 

Blue079 has a lot of the traditional lefty distractions, but that's just standard lefty. So there is a lot to complain about in the argument Blue079 presents:   Millions paid in a settlement is NOT equivalent to proof of wrong doing -  as the millions are "pennies to them" and they may have been just settling to avoid paying even more to go to court. Containment and Recycling of the water at least in my area is being closely monitored both by the State, the County and the city of Denver ( who has 50% of their water supply in the area.) (Blue079 wants a dictatorial top down one-size fits all solution - because lefties can't conceive of anything else that would work..or the possibility that the locals who are most affected are competent to manage it or make their own decisions - after all they might not make the decision Blue079 wants imposed on them from above that ignores their wishes and concerns. But you know Dems are the " party of the people." as long as they get to tell the people what to do. )  Dick Cheney is simply irrelevant to the argument, as Congress passes laws, not ex Sec. of Defense. Haliburton as a company may have lobbied for that act, or even AEI, not sure. Not really interested in finding out either..as Lobbying isn't the same as passing the act. It may be valid to blame the GOP controlled congress for its passage, but then you can't isolate one person for your two minutes of hate. They are all pretty poor arguments, but they aren't offensive to me. Again, this may be because I am so used to seeing such things, they just no longer phase me. just par for the course. Almost funny in fact because of the predictability. Who is welcome here is of course above my pay grade, but having been kicked of other fourms for far less - for in fact just quoting thier own words back to them in one case, I have developed a tolerance for any lefty who at least tries to make an argument - because most can't even do that. 

Online Pandora

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2011, 12:18:23 PM »
Quote
They are all pretty poor arguments, but they aren't offensive to me. Again, this may be because I am so used to seeing such things, they just no longer phase me. just par for the course. Almost funny in fact because of the predictability. Who is welcome here is of course above my pay grade, but having been kicked of other fourms for far less - for in fact just quoting thier own words back to them in one case, I have developed a tolerance for any lefty who at least tries to make an argument - because most can't even do that.

Your opinion on any forum operation is welcome; please don't marginalize your own standing here.

Don't mind the argument; definitely mind the lefty presentation-with-derision.  Neither the argument nor the mere quoting back of our words as part of a reasonable argument will get someone banned; the tromping into the house with a bad attitude will.

The hydro-fracturing issue seems to be a fairly new one, the disdain displayed for any point of view other than the "properly-prescribed" one is not.

The bottom line is while the lefty-routine may not phase or offend you -- and the same does apply to some other folks here -- it's extremely annoying and infuriating to others.  We've all "been there/done that" in other places -- Powerline for one and you were present there as well -- and the general sentiment here shakes out as "enough already".

Stick around long enough, and I sincerely hope you do, and you'll find we have our own knock-down/drag-outs, despite what may appear as nothing more than an echo-chamber at times.
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Offline rickl

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2011, 01:20:04 PM »
Not second-guessing the administrators, but just putting in my 2¢ worth:  Bad attitude or not, I'd give the trolls a bit longer leash.  Gives us the chance to have a little fun batting them around.

I'm thinking of the one a week or so ago who said that Reagan should have been hanged for treason.  Of course, the same could be said of every president since Coolidge, for a variety of reasons.  It would have been fun to have had that debate with him.  That statement was over the top, but the points he made about the debt prior to that were pretty valid.  It really did start to take off in the 1980s.

ETA:  Some blogs, like Neo-Neocon and Transterrestrial Musings, have long-term resident trolls.  They're allowed to stay as long as they don't get abusive or obscene.  The regulars treat them like piñatas.  I don't know why they keep coming back for more, but they do.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 01:25:46 PM by rickl »
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2011, 02:09:42 PM »

...

The hydro-fracturing issue seems to be a fairly new one, the disdain displayed for any point of view other than the "properly-prescribed" one is not.
..


The "new" part of the fracking issue is that it is another of the left's last grasps at control.  They have been using hydro-fracturing for more than forty years.

Quote
http://blogs.mccombs.utexas.edu/energy/energy-management-briefs/fracking-regulations-is-federal-hydraulic-facturing-regulation-around-the-corner/
...

Fracking is not a new process; it has been used to produce oil and methane gas from coal beds for decades.


 

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Re: Some easy facts for the process known as fracking
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2011, 02:22:48 PM »
Not second-guessing the administrators, but just putting in my 2¢ worth:  Bad attitude or not, I'd give the trolls a bit longer leash.  Gives us the chance to have a little fun batting them around.

I'm thinking of the one a week or so ago who said that Reagan should have been hanged for treason.  Of course, the same could be said of every president since Coolidge, for a variety of reasons.  It would have been fun to have had that debate with him.  That statement was over the top, but the points he made about the debt prior to that were pretty valid.  It really did start to take off in the 1980s.

ETA:  Some blogs, like Neo-Neocon and Transterrestrial Musings, have long-term resident trolls.  They're allowed to stay as long as they don't get abusive or obscene.  The regulars treat them like piñatas.  I don't know why they keep coming back for more, but they do.

Youse are killin' me.   ::unknowncomic::
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"