Author Topic: Victoria  (Read 7220 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2014, 12:47:19 PM »
Quote
PS-Nice of them to name a nation after me!

I thought so, too.

I was interested as well in the inclusion of the "Retro Culture" folks as I had run across the concept before.

Context is important, who is using the term and what exactly are people talking about going back too?

Used by Oblivions to describe those of us that want to go back to Founding Principles I take as a compliment, even though they would use it as a negative term to describe anybody not progressive...

Used by hippies and the black community agitators it would mean going back to the 50's and an era of white privilege and rigid class and gender roles and strict law enforcement, which as we all know is a gross overexaggeration of the era.

Urban Dictionary hasn't even defined it yet...   ::thinking::   ::evilbat::
I am surprised that the

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Offline Libertas

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2014, 12:49:10 PM »
PS-Nice of them to name a nation after me!   :D

Great. Now goes the ego... ::exitstageleft:: ::laughonfloor::

Hey!  I caught that smart-assed remark, buddy! 

Nice one.   ;D
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Re: Victoria
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2014, 12:56:20 PM »
Well, did you read any of the series or did you just miss it here?  And  Weisshaupt quoted an excerpt.

I'm not interested in how the Left would define or denigrate it or use it to throw the race card.  Some of today's older, smarter Blacks are on record as admitting that the fifties were better for them compared to the sht they're living with today.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2014, 01:13:11 PM »
Well, did you read any of the series or did you just miss it here?  And  Weisshaupt quoted an excerpt.

I'm not interested in how the Left would define or denigrate it or use it to throw the race card.  Some of today's older, smarter Blacks are on record as admitting that the fifties were better for them compared to the sht they're living with today.

I must suck at navigating this website, I missed this, but as I thought it is era dependent.  I disagree with the "anything before 1965" demarcation, it might have been better then (I was a wee lad) but not perfect, beatnicks and the proto-hippie culture was starting, wymens libbers, etc...

Even the 50's or 40's were better, but structurally much of what has allowed Oblivionism to flourish throughout all sectors of society were laid under Roosevelt & Wilson and exploded under FDR...

It is a case (like that opinion poll they cite) of perception, bias and beliefs coloring ones opinion...it is human nature, but there is a certain amount of cherry-picking going on, people can idealize one era or another, but they have to filter out the negative aspects of that time or it can taint the whole, so I contend that the era per se is not important, that the people of an era live in harmony with Founding Principles and traditional cultural and religions norms is important.

And I'm with you, don't care what Oblivions take offense to, in fact the more they are offended the better.

ETA - Found all chapters now, my night is booked.   ;)
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Re: Victoria
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2014, 01:22:00 PM »
I'm sorry, Libertas; the navigation issue is my fault for just pointing out the Preface and expecting y'all to follow the breadcrumbs.

The series is located here, by chapters.

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Offline AlanS

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2014, 05:05:15 PM »
I'm sorry, Libertas; the navigation issue is my fault for just pointing out the Preface and expecting y'all to follow the breadcrumbs.

The series is located here, by chapters.

I've bookmarked it. Looks to be lengthy and a good evening read. ::thumbsup::
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2014, 10:12:10 PM »
I'm sorry, Libertas; the navigation issue is my fault for just pointing out the Preface and expecting y'all to follow the breadcrumbs.

The series is located here, by chapters.

Not your fault Sweetie if I can't immediately find the right path!

Finished all chapters, it is an entertaining read and informative.  The citing of John Boyd as the most significant military strategist is well earned in my opinion.  Labelling politically oriented military careerists "milicrats" is so fitting.   Kidnapping useless pols is a trend I would like to see rise in popularity.  I will not overly dwell on the timeline and particulars, but waiting until 2020 for significant push back to start given our current sorry state is depressing.  Shots fired and politics and elections (in and out of Fedville) seems pointless in their 2023 timeline, but low majority percents and a plethora of competing factions seems plausible.  Nullification and rampant inflation/devaluation seem likely but the chaos ensuing seems underplayed and the corresponding strength and authority of Fedville overplayed.  Outright mayhem and collapse would be the order of the day.  By the time rolls around that a fast food meal costs $150 there would be BITS, not to mention the implosion that follows and people are foot-bound, Hungary and desperate.  Worse than Weimar, worse than Zimbabwe....no Japan, China or Russia to offer any help to anybody....if anything they swoop in for easy pickings.  Forget currency, barter world would dominate.  And I found the infiltration of LEO & military units (in general) to be overstated.  And with the ruined economy I don't think the Feds could field much in assets and personnel unless they allow them autonomy to forage and plunder and rape at will, and in that event the risk of a coup grows.  The Aztec thing was hilarious!  But the biggest flaw - at no point in this timeline was there an attempt at gun, gun accessory and ammo ban/seizure.  Major oversight, our enemies never cease in that regard and would not just let it go, and that opens up a crap load of scary scenarios, as we've discussed now and then.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 10:16:19 PM by Libertas »
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Re: Victoria
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2014, 10:15:11 PM »
See, now, along with Weisshaupt's review, that is what I was looking for.

Thanx, fella.   ::thumbsup::
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2014, 10:17:20 PM »
 ::hat-tip::
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2014, 09:39:33 AM »
Kidnapping useless pols is a trend I would like to see rise in popularity.

Or outright assassination by people who have reached the "nothing to loose" stage. I agree with the story assessment that it will be small, unaffiliated groups or individuals carrying out such actions.  The State will try to smear political groups like the Tea Party with the actions of these individuals, and of course use it to bolster thier "home-grown" terrorism angle.  Of course the only people being terrorized will be the politicians - not the general public..

I will not overly dwell on the timeline and particulars, but waiting until 2020 for significant push back to start given our current sorry state is depressing.

I found that timeline quite convincing  - these things will happen only when people feel trapped - and things have to be bad for that to happen.  So final phase of the collapse being 2016 or so when the petrodollar arrangement with OPEC fails, due to war, caliphate interference, or a big BRICs currency deal (or all three) and inflation really beings to ramp-- may NOT be hyperinflation either - maybe "just" 15-20% a year... All of the TPTB - foreign and domestic want a slow burn..so they can get maximum return from their hoarded  dollars, so they will use every trick to prevent this turning into Hyperinflation.  But 4 years of that and you are at 2020, with most squatting in their houses, eating only what EBT will buy, and suffering at the hands of gangs and thugs because the police are underfunded , ill paid and no longer willing to risk their lives.. 

 
  Nullification and rampant inflation/devaluation seem likely but the chaos ensuing seems underplayed and the corresponding strength and authority of Fedville overplayed. 

I agree.  The Feds would have been loosing power continuously.  They probably couldn't field or feed an Army.  The folks in Maine would have more problems with Gang/raiding party activity crossing their borders than Fedcoats... I do expect mostly rural areas to remain outside most of the havoc. Everyone is armed, everyone usually knows everyone else by sight if not by name, and they have a much better idea who the outsiders are.. as Gas grows expensive travel becomes more difficult and this just increases that effect.  But there is such a thing as too rural and not rural enough. I suspect Maine is in the latter category - East cost population density is still too damn high.


And I found the infiltration of LEO & military units (in general) to be overstated.  And with the ruined economy I don't think the Feds could field much in assets and personnel unless they allow them autonomy to forage and plunder and rape at will, and in that event the risk of a coup grows. 

They had even infiltrated some media outlets.. and I don't believe it. AT best our LEO  and Military filtration will be 50% to start and declining as people resign, are booted out or simply offed - and that process has ALREADY started.

But the biggest flaw - at no point in this timeline was there an attempt at gun, gun accessory and ammo ban/seizure. 

Well, no, that is not a flaw.  This is the optimistic scenario where the Political Class as a whole has no real political agenda  is just trying to hold onto their power and position , and there isn't a concerted and coordinated  effort by some ideologically  true-believer  Cabal to subdue Americans under a police state. The scenario describes has several humors anecdotes where their ideology is what is tripping them up...( 42nd Division etc) though one  could argue that  for such a cabal, ideology could be  a cover for their power grab - not the end goal.

If we are just dealing with incompetence, and Gun registration and gun confiscation remain political hot topics - the poll driven politicians won't touch  it. They will just ride the gravy train till it stops, be thankful for their good run and retire to some nice island somewhere.  I think this becomes especially true at more local levels of government.

I admit still possible that Obama and his handlers really have no agenda beyond enriching themselves, and enough ideology that they just bumble around hurting Americas with the best of intentions. (but I don't believe that)
Instead I believe the Obama administration is very likely a ideologically driven cabal with evil intent, and many local Leftist Fascists were emboldened by that - and did not realize that they could be recalled or forced to resign, and their party wouldn't be able to protect them.
If your main goal in life is to maintain power and position, you are going to notice when other party members are asked to fall on their swords, and be more careful in the future of endeavors that might lead you to the same result.  Part of Obama's congress problem are the Democrats themselves.  He and their leadership told them - trust me - Vote for Obamacare, it will be great.  They did, and now it hangs like an albatross around most of their necks. The true believers are happy they did it of course.  Those who just want the perks and power and a good long run on the gravy train, are less pleased.  Not all Democratic (or GOP)  politicians are true believers-- its probably not even a majority.. and power hungry narcissist sociopaths ( because all politicians are) make poor foot soldiers for the "true believer" cause.  Who knows how many do what they do simply because the Dems run like "The Firm", and have NSA dig up dirt and threaten to expose it if a member gets out of line. 

In a scenario where most politicians are just running out the clock and getting what they can before midnight,  you won't find a lot of volunteers for suicide missions - and gun control/confiscation  is a suicide mission. This is why you see Obama relying more and more on Federal might and executive orders.


Even if the Cabal can execute -- A gun round up is a sure fire way to start the 2nd revolution - and not just with some fringe extremist  group in Maine or a rebellious state, but with 1/3 of the American people.  They won't go there until things are so bad that they can justify martial law, and even then I doubt they can get away with it - unless they are going full Nazi and willing to kill 30-40 Million at minimum... as in the Ebola, report to the FEMA Camp for treatment scenario.

Otherwise, after  living in what amounts to a war zone for a few weeks, very few people are going to surrender their only defense and "trust"  the National Guard or Army  can restore order and protect them.  Boston and other rich liberal enclaves may comply, but by and large its not going to happen. Any real  attempt makes it open season on badges if word gets out. Badges who are NOT fighting for a cause, are paid poorly, and who have their own families to worry about.

SO really, I think a forceful gun confiscation is unlikely in either scenario - at least  if the Cabal is not so blinded by its reflexive pursuit of ideology to ignore the reality on the ground. If it is so blinded (as they were in this story) , they will be easy to defeat. 

 Its far more likely they would spread ebola ( or an ebola-like) disease and then use NSA records to sort out who they wanted to keep, and who they wanted to kill and then use quarantine powers to legitimately arrest those  who were "infected" with a love of freedom( which is usually indicated by a  compulsive need to cling to guns and bibles.)  That way there is reasonable doubt about government intentions ( they are just trying to help and protect the public)  and  more people will comply. They can explain why large areas are going radio dead (communications were cut off to prevent a public panic) , and target just the folks on their list.  None of us here would comply I think, and would take one with us, but I suspect that we are a minority, and not enough to stop this thing in its tracks.  They may just throw a canister of real ebola ( or nerve agent )  into any house that resists (or is expected by their NSA  records to resist)  and just report 4 found dead of Ebola and move on.  The could just firebomb /nuke /gas large areas they they feel are too conservative to process. (Opps, plague wiped them all out.  Too bad. )  There really isn't any reason to really let a real pathogen get loose.. you just need the fear involved with one.  I suspect the problem they would fight with is getting the sheep to understand there is a danger and get them to pay attention long enough to panic. After all - a financial collapse wasn't enough..


Offline Glock32

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2014, 11:10:26 AM »

Or outright assassination by people who have reached the "nothing to loose" stage. I agree with the story assessment that it will be small, unaffiliated groups or individuals carrying out such actions.  The State will try to smear political groups like the Tea Party with the actions of these individuals, and of course use it to bolster thier "home-grown" terrorism angle.  Of course the only people being terrorized will be the politicians - not the general public..



Since the Left routinely floats trial balloons like "abortion" up to age 3, and then attempts to deflect negative attention by saying it's merely an academic discussion, I think I can likewise throw this question out there to the ether:

At what point, if any, would these outright assassinations acquire moral validity?  The Bible is clear that killing a human being out of malice is murder, and is a cardinal sin.  Killing a human being in defense of self or defense of others is not murder, however.  At that point I think the question becomes more of what constitutes defense.  Obvious examples are defense against a criminal assailant, or an enemy soldier in a time of war.  Those examples are direct actors though, where the chain of cause and effect is obvious.  How many further degrees of causality would fall under the scope of righteous defense?

And hey, it's just an academic discussion, a thought exercise.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2014, 01:26:24 PM »

At what point, if any, would these outright assassinations acquire moral validity?  The Bible is clear that killing a human being out of malice is murder, and is a cardinal sin.  Killing a human being in defense of self or defense of others is not murder, however.  At that point I think the question becomes more of what constitutes defense.  Obvious examples are defense against a criminal assailant, or an enemy soldier in a time of war.  Those examples are direct actors though, where the chain of cause and effect is obvious.  How many further degrees of causality would fall under the scope of righteous defense?

And hey, it's just an academic discussion, a thought exercise.

A politician who votes to use the weapon of government against illegitimate targets ( those who have done not harm to others)  for the purpose  of DOING harm to those targets and violating their rights,  are direct actors in my opinion.  There is, in my opinion no difference between  the solider in the field trying to kill you and the commanders who ordered him to do it.  Likewise there is no difference than the Police State Enforcer come to confiscate your gun, or stop you from selling raw milk, etc,  and the people who ordered him to do it.  If a politician votes for that action, he is just as responsible for the action - as is the individual voter who knowingly votes for a politician who he knows in advance will vote for such actions.   i.e. If you knew in advance that voting for Obama would result in a law that would violate the rights of the individual ( like forcing them to buy insurance,  to pay for abortions etc)  then  you are responsible for that action.

Or put more simply- those who actively work to deny  the rights of others , have no claim to rights of their own, including the right to life, and thereby make themselves morally valid targets.  Academically and hypothetically speaking of course.

Offline robins111

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2014, 03:53:59 PM »
Been following this book/story as it comes out.. One item needs to be clarified, his theory that support from two former Canadian provinces Nervous Scotia and New Brunswick is a pipe dream, they are pathologically lazy in both those provinces, with the possible exception of the fishing industry, they live on our version of EBT cards and whining.. I'd personally rather be aligned with a castrated cat, at least it'd clean itself. 

 ::popcorn::

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2014, 05:39:33 PM »
Been following this book/story as it comes out.. One item needs to be clarified, his theory that support from two former Canadian provinces Nervous Scotia and New Brunswick is a pipe dream, they are pathologically lazy in both those provinces, with the possible exception of the fishing industry, they live on our version of EBT cards and whining.. I'd personally rather be aligned with a castrated cat, at least it'd clean itself. 

 ::popcorn::

The whole idea this could happen anywhere in the North East is a pipe-dream for the same reason..  change the location though and its plausible. :)

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2014, 12:36:59 AM »
New chapter here.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2014, 10:35:41 AM »
New chapter here.

I doubt that a patriot resistance will be able to avoid war by assassination to the point where it can be used as moral high ground against the enemy.  There will be too many individual "nothing to loose" actors, and quite frankly, its going to be one of the more powerful tactics..  (Molon Labe ( by Boston T Party)  tells a tale where that tactic is prominent. )  Sociopathic Narcissists aren't going to care if they send police officers in to be shot, but they would never pass a law confiscating gnus if they thought it was a real possibility they would be killed. They are for the most part, cowards, and lone wolf attacks on the politicians ( and hopefully not their families - as that would loose any moral high ground to occupy)   are likely to be very effective at pushing them back. At the very least it forces them to spend time and energy on protecting themselves, and that is time and energy not directed toward their insurrection problem.

As for taking out the President, VP and "most of the cabinet" with a small aircraft? I think this is the first time the author has gone beyond credibility.  In a known state of war those people would NOT be traveling together, nor would any small aircraft be allowed to fly in that airspace- much less for hours.  Whatever remaining resources they have are going to be dedicated to their own protection.

Ambitious command in the Military may however see this as an excellent opportunity for a coup.. and they could carry out an operation to destroy the members of the civilian government - but with no money and no real  control or power,  there wouldn't be much of a point, unless you can play yourself up as a "patriot" and use what resources are left to you to bring states back in line that way.. Depending how far gone various places are that may or may not be possible. 

He hints at a Black Muslim uprising in Boston at the end of the chapter-- seriously, most Urban areas are going to be gang run -- till they venture into the hinterlands and are engaged.  Be it Black Muslims or whatever.  You will not maintain the peace in urban areas  and the east Coast has such  a high population density that you will see most places wiped out completely through famine, disease and fighting - especially if these designer diseases are running loose, and given the fact that cities are 80% or more people with liberty fearing dependents of the Fed and other Marxists. They are just going to be closed off as giant prisons and the people inside left to rot.  Let the Black Muslims have Boston, and kill them without mercy when they leave to try and resupply.


Offline Glock32

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2014, 01:44:02 PM »
An interesting real world example of what will happen to cities is the siege of Leningrad (St. Petersburg) during WWII.  The Germans had the city almost totally cut off, and their only means of resupply were truck convoys over the ice of Lake Ladoga during winter. This route, even when it was passable, never supplied more than a trickle of what the imprisoned city needed. There was mass starvation with bodies left in the street. The Russians did a pretty admirable job of converting available patches of dirt into growing edible crops, but it was never something that would last long term.

That's going to be the reality of many densely packed cities.  They lack the land and wherewithal to feed themselves, and the only reply they can expect from the rural areas is a big extended middle finger.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2014, 06:47:02 PM »

Yeah there is some flaws in this latest chapter, I doubt a complete Federal decapitation likely but the coup angle certainly is in play, and I still have issues with the passiveness of other nations. 

Also, thanks to Weisshaupt for his comments to this chapter and my previous post of the first 23.  To clarify my 2020 comment I am not as opposed to the events requiring that time to reach critical mass as I am in my angst that I have to suffer (we all would have to suffer) another six years of this f**king sh*t!
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Offline trapeze

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2014, 12:47:44 AM »
Haven't read the whole thing through yet but what I have read so far did remind me of this group of people. Sort of.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 01:23:42 AM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Victoria
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2014, 07:18:55 AM »
Yup, they do compare to that group don't they?  I'd say "I hope that doesn't paint a target on them" but that paint job no doubt has several layers on it since O'Bongo seized power...
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