Topic: IMF: Age of America Nears End

[Weisshaupt]

I don't want fun; I want it straight.

"Our resources given to China"; that part scares hell outta me.

I'd like to strangle .... them, except too many of "them" are us.

Actually, I discovered that Newfoundland is only part of Canada because the sovergnty of the entire country was handed over in its default.  One couldargue that is the dela being presenting to many of the Euro nations in trouble now as well. So just loosing the resources means  we are getting off lucky..

Here is part one of a Twelve part series on You Tube covering Argentina's (serial) defaults... this was ( hyper) inflationary default and there is obvious bias in it, so  take it all with a grain of salt, but yeah- the crony capitalism and multinationals moved in and made deals they couldn't refuse. They seized retirement accounts during  bank holidays, and generally left everyone screwed.  Somewhere I had a first hand account from someone describing thier personal life in that situation,  but I can't seem to find it..

But I did find one given by one of dem crazy survivalist guys
and it tells basically ythe same story ( felfal now has a book for sale on Amazon)

[charlesoakwood]

I don't want fun; I want it straight.

"Our resources given to China"; that part scares hell outta me.

I'd like to strangle .... them, except too many of "them" are us.

I'm not buying into defeatism.  We have a fool for a president who is an embarrassment to drunken sailors.  If we had elected a wise man (I know it was impossible at the time) who was prudent with the monetary problem this discussion would be entirely different.

What has animated these discussions is theBoyKing's outrageous spending, which, as I understand it has not been spent.
The spending is on the books but not spent. *IT CAN BE STOPPED.
We can save the planet we just need leadership. Someone to stand in front of the camera, and with Authority, explain what needs to be done.

Eliminate all acronym bureaucracies except for CIA.  One giant hemorrhaging artery would be cauterized. Businesses could expand without lawsuit, there would be no more fat people in Lincoln's parking in the handicapped parking, handicapped could park without being mugged. And the whole nation could go about remedying our problems and not blaming someone else.

Try as they have, this ship has not been scuttled yet. 

*he is so retentive only $3B of the $27B he extorted from BP has been spent       

[Pandora]

I don't want fun; I want it straight.

"Our resources given to China"; that part scares hell outta me.

I'd like to strangle .... them, except too many of "them" are us.

Actually, I discovered that Newfoundland is only part of Canada because the sovergnty of the entire country was handed over in its default.  One couldargue that is the dela being presenting to many of the Euro nations in trouble now as well. So just loosing the resources means  we are getting off lucky..

Here is part one of a Twelve part series on You Tube covering Argentina's (serial) defaults... this was ( hyper) inflationary default and there is obvious bias in it, so  take it all with a grain of salt, but yeah- the crony capitalism and multinationals moved in and made deals they couldn't refuse. They seized retirement accounts during  bank holidays, and generally left everyone screwed.  Somewhere I had a first hand account from someone describing thier personal life in that situation,  but I can't seem to find it..

But I did find one given by one of dem crazy survivalist guys
and it tells basically ythe same story ( felfal now has a book for sale on Amazon)

Farfel, isn't it?  Yes, I've read some of his stuff; enlightening to say the least.

[Pandora]

I don't want fun; I want it straight.

"Our resources given to China"; that part scares hell outta me.

I'd like to strangle .... them, except too many of "them" are us.

I'm not buying into defeatism.  We have a fool for a president who is an embarrassment to drunken sailors.  If we had elected a wise man (I know it was impossible at the time) who was prudent with the monetary problem this discussion would be entirely different.

What has animated these discussions is theBoyKing's outrageous spending, which, as I understand it has not been spent.
The spending is on the books but not spent. *IT CAN BE STOPPED.
We can save the planet we just need leadership. Someone to stand in front of the camera, and with Authority, explain what needs to be done.

Eliminate all acronym bureaucracies except for CIA.  One giant hemorrhaging artery would be cauterized. Businesses could expand without lawsuit, there would be no more fat people in Lincoln's parking in the handicapped parking, handicapped could park without being mugged. And the whole nation could go about remedying our problems and not blaming someone else.

Try as they have, this ship has not been scuttled yet. 

*he is so retentive only $3B of the $27B he extorted from BP has been spent       

Charles, facing reality is not defeatism.

Your "ifs" and "can be's" are totally dependent on a leader, or leaders, standing up loud and fearlessly taking "it" to the left.

See anybody like that right now with the power?

[charlesoakwood]

No, but I'm not dead yet.

If's and but's go two ways and we can go either way and I'm not planning my funeral. That's what I'm trying to say.

[Weisshaupt]

I'm not buying into defeatism.  ...
What has animated these discussions is theBoyKing's outrageous spending, which, as I understand it has not been spent.
The spending is on the books but not spent. *IT CAN BE STOPPED.
*he is so retentive only $3B of the $27B he extorted from BP has been spent       

CO, I am trying to give an honest apprasial of the situation.  I hope you are right and it all plays out as you wish, but I don't even see that leader on the field at the moment, and history says he isn't coming.  No one came to stop the fall of Rome either.   14 Trillion - our whole Nations (inflated by political manuvering )  GDP  for a year is owed - and most of it is inshort term bonds, which need to be rolled over and resold every 3 months to year. We are talking about spending in the trillions - 27 Billion isn't even a blip on the radar. But the 14 trillion is the small problem. The  50-100 Trillion in Social Security Funds haven't been speant, but they have  been promised, and are expected, and in fact are depended upon, and there is no way to make good on that obligation. So we default internally with SS/Medicare or we default externally on our bonds.   Or both. But a default is required, and an internal default (for that is what we mean when we say entitlement  reform) is not selling well with the public. But regardless of who we default upon,  the path of least resistance is default via inflation. Because of the short term nature of our debt, we can't afford an increase in interest rates, as that will increase our spending automatically,  nor can we continue to inflate the currency to keep rates low. The Fed is in a trap

 If your knight in shining armor shows up we can have a good laugh and a toast  about the giant bag of beans I bought, and the stupid  things I did to prepare for an event that never materialized, and I will smile and be thankful of the taunting. But the situation is grim. I am not giving up, which is why I am preparing for what might occur, and what is, day by day, becoming more inevitable. I am merely facing the facts as I see them, and accepting  that "winning" may involve watching the rats drown as the ship sinks, and planning to rebuild after that event.

[Libertas]

Don't cry for me Argen... umm America?

 

[Libertas]

Lot's of similar stuff and lessons learned from Argentina here.

http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net

[Glock32]

This sort of thing has the makings of a WWIII type event. The fatalistic cynic in me says we've been on this inexorable trajectory because periodic mass die-offs are an inevitable fact of existence on this blue and green ball swirling around the Sun.

[charlesoakwood]

I'm not buying into defeatism.  ...
What has animated these discussions is theBoyKing's outrageous spending, which, as I understand it has not been spent.
The spending is on the books but not spent. *IT CAN BE STOPPED.
*he is so retentive only $3B of the $27B he extorted from BP has been spent       

CO, I am trying to give an honest apprasial of the situation.  

Agreed.

I hope you are right and it all plays out as you wish,

It's not a wish it is an alternative possibility.

but I don't even see that leader on the field at the moment,

Agreed. There are leaders but they are not in office or high office.

and history says he isn't coming.  

Our history hasn't been writ yet.  History says we should have lost to King George. We are ordained to fight.

No one came to stop the fall of Rome either.  

We're not Romans.  no offense JF

14 Trillion - our whole Nations (inflated by political manuvering )  GDP  for a year is owed - and most of it is inshort term bonds, which need to be rolled over and resold every 3 months to year. We are talking about spending in the trillions - 27 Billion isn't even a blip on the radar. But the 14 trillion is the small problem. The  50-100 Trillion in Social Security Funds haven't been speant, but they have  been promised, and are expected, and in fact are depended upon, and there is no way to make good on that obligation. So we default internally with SS/Medicare or we default externally on our bonds.  

You can't pile it all up together and count it.  Some has been spent, some must be spent, other doesn't have to be spent.  Also not in this accounting is the bureaucratic waste. 

If it is reasonable to say "not one dime for SS and Medicare" it is equally reasonable to say "not one dime for Dept of Ed, HHS, Dpt of Interior, EEOC,  Energy Department, Environmental Protection Agency and all the rest"  This is not pie in the sky this is the heart and soul of America being ripped out.  The rest is nibbling at the edges.  Eliminate these traps and America will blossom as never before.

Or both. But a default is required, and an internal default (for that is what we mean when we say entitlement  reform) is not selling well with the public. But regardless of who we default upon,  the path of least resistance is default via inflation.

It is not necessary to default but I agree they are solving the problem with inflation.

Because of the short term nature of our debt, we can't afford an increase in interest rates, as that will increase our spending automatically,  nor can we continue to inflate the currency to keep rates low. The Fed is in a trap

Yes the Fed is in a trap. But tommorrow the Bernank will talk of finishing up QE2 and hint a rate increases by the turn of the year.

 If your knight in shining armor shows up we can have a good laugh and a toast  about the giant bag of beans I bought, and the stupid  things I did to prepare for an event that never materialized, and I will smile and be thankful of the taunting.

Oh no! Two times. The beans may be needed even if everything I speak to happens.  And I'm not looking for a knight savior.  I'm speaking to a Republican nominee who will work his heart out. For imagery think Allan West.  My intent is not to be dreamy but to offer an alternative reality.  The if is as you have said, if the Democrats are allowed to continue.  The if is as I have countered, if we achieve a real leader.

But the situation is grim. I am not giving up, which is why I am preparing for what might occur, and what is, day by day, becoming more inevitable. I am merely facing the facts as I see them, and accepting  that "winning" may involve watching the rats drown as the ship sinks, and planning to rebuild after that event.

Yes it may, and God bless you for your skill and persistence.
On the other hand it may not and we must work as diligently to that end as preparation for the worst.

[Weisshaupt]

CO, I understand our history hasn't been written yet, but when you are trying to predict the future, one usually looks at similar past events
and forms a (subjective)  opinion from there as to what the probability of certain outcomes is likely to be. America's history has been one of Miracles, and perhaps we will produce yet another one, but taking a larger survey of human history the unlikely hood of such miracles becomes apparent.

Still not sure why you think default is not inevitable. A default occurs when you do not pay what you have promised to pay - no matter how that is accomplsihed - via inflation, rescheduling of your debt, or simply refusing to pay a dime.   We have promised millions of Americans SS and Medicare benefits in return for their "contributions"  to those systems.  Not paying those is a default. We can call it "entitlement reform", or a "spending cut"if you are partial to  terminology.  Yes,  the Supreme Court has found the govt is not legally required  to provide those benefits and our "contributions" to those programs are just taxes- but it shouldn't be any wonder when a debtor- who also controls the law, claims they are not legally required to pay their debts. While I agree that the sort of drastic cutting you propose would save the nation and right the ship, I don't think it is a likely or a politically viable solution in any scenario short of a violent coup. You or Allen West will not be elected proposing such a plan,  and if you surprise the American people with it, the entitled will be calling for your head -  you would be likely to fall victim to a violent coup yourself and hand the reigns of power back over to the deranged lefties, who would then feel justified in going full commie and we end up in a Civil war. Personally I would have tried the entire congresss for Treason and had them publically hung by now if I had the option.. but not enough other people feel that way, or it would have already happened., the tea party would have won every race, and taken the senate if there were. The GOP is compromised, the culture in washington is not budging, and we may not have till 2012 to fix it.  Markets anticipate. Bernake can say whatever he wants, be we all know he can't raise rates without rasing the interest on the 14 trillion in debt. He can't stop QE2 or the economy tanks, revenues fall, and we can make payment on the current interest payments. China has announced they will not buy any more and begin to sell treasuries (as if they hadn't been already)  The dollar is dropping, silver, gold and oil continue to rise.  Its a joo-joo-Flop situation, and I have a hard time seeing it hold together till 2012.  FDR seized his power when people were scared, and Obama is trying for the same conditions now.  And  we haven't even discussed the likelyhood of a World War.
 

[charlesoakwood]

You or Allen West will not be elected proposing such a plan,  and if you surprise the American people with it, the entitled will be calling for your head -  you would be likely to fall victim to a violent coup yourself and hand the reigns of power back over to the deranged lefties, who would then feel justified in going full commie and we end up in a Civil war.

Again. It is not I.  What I put forth is an alternate option. An option you agree is viable, if not palatable.  Therefore, if it is a valid option that would keep us from becoming a third world nation, it should be considered instead of making plans for defeat.

[IronDioPriest]

I'm as pessimistic about the prospects of righting this nation-ship as anybody. But I'm with Charles. In the final analysis, in light of everything we face, I do not lose hope. I'm gravely concerned, but I do not lose hope.

First of all, I have a deep and abiding faith in Jesus Christ. As attached as I am to this nation, the future of it, and my childrens place in it, I know in my heart that whatever comes, Jesus and all who stand with Him win. Evil has already lost the final battle. I may have moments of despair. My faith may be challenged at times. But I face whatever comes knowing that as horrible as the coming battles might be, Jesus already won the war upon the holy cross.

However I do not believe it is our Christian mandate to stand aside and be overrun - I believe we must fight. And if it comes to it, I will fight with whatever tools I must. I have two strong sons coming into manhood, both mature for their ages, and excellent marksmen to boot. I have a wife with inner strength when it counts. I have a little daughter we would all die to protect. I have another daughter, married to a man from a military family, with strong Christian upbringing. They will protect my little grandson.

So what to do in the meantime? Right now, the fighting tools are words, ideas, and communication, so I will use those to the best of my ability. Keep the chin lifted, and look for strong leadership wherever it can be found. Be strong leaders ourselves if that is our calling. Convince people one at a time. Do what we can to beat back the worst-case scenario. Do whatever comes to mind to mitigate eventualities. Make preparations for whatever comes. Be alert, and aware. Pin hopes and dreams to things other than material or financial worth. Live in the day as much as possible.

Trust in God. Does he not adorn the flowers of the field and see to the needs of the sparrow in the absence of their worry? Worry can be transformed into determined concern with courage and action.

I see hope in people. We are not out here dangling alone. We have our people on the inside, fighting against the odds to be sure, but fighting vehemently. Monumental challenges have been overcome before against all odds, and particularly by Americans possessing the American spirit and the armor of Jesus Christ.

I refuse to give up hope. I will remain concerned, and voice those concerns, and at times those concerns will manifest as abject pessimism. But at the end of the day there is hope in my heart.

[Weisshaupt]

I haven't lost hope.  But I feel I am being realistic about the possibilities.  Politically this thing CAN'T be fixed. It was planned that way.
Over 1/2 of the country is on the Dole - more is handed out than is collected in taxes, and the huge demographic of the "elderly"  see the benefits they paid for their entire lives on the chopping block, and then you have the various identity politics segments, all looking to get theirs. Even with the Tea Party Freshmen, the GOP is still unsure if they can even talk about sticking a knife into the scared cow of entitlements. While at least one third of our population is solidly, unrepentantly, "progressive" - they cannot be reasoned with, they cannot be bargained with, and they will not stop - and they have succeeded in coarsening the culture - again all according to plan.

We have 50 Years of cultural conditioning in leftist dogma to overcome. Even in the Tea Party you will find HUGE resistance to what must be done  Yes, societies with a will can and have changed their cultures rapidly, but I don't see the signs of the correct magnitude happening here as of yet , and we will have at least a third working against us with all of their might.  And "rapidly" as used here would be short for any historical example I could give you. And  Just taking over the government by election takes 6 Years - and that is assuming you have mustered the will to do so which can only come after the cultural change.  Economically there is a real possibility this will be over before  the 2012 elections even take place - but even in the best case you have a decade before collapse. It just can't last longer than that... But even a decade is a short time to do what is required. What is far more likely is the economic collase will be a catalyst for cultural change, but which direction the change will be in is up for grabs.. 

You are right to call upon God - because only He has the power to change the hearts that need changing - we need in short, a miracle. Our power to affect the situation is very limited, and I fear unequal to the task without His providence, and I no longer have faith that we, as a people, deserve his intervention.