Author Topic: Change for a dollar  (Read 3877 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AlanS

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7908
  • Proud Infidel
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

Thomas Jefferson

Online IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10828
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2014, 06:43:49 PM »
Hmmmm... that's a wacky youtube link for me. I tried deleting everything from the question mark forward and pasting it into my browser, and it still won't work.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 19529
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2014, 09:21:22 PM »
Newp, not working for me either.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Alphabet Soup

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5610
  • Hier standt ich. Ich kann nicht anders
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2014, 09:31:55 PM »
Worked for me...

Change For A Dollar

Online Pablo de Fleurs

  • Conservative Hero
  • ****
  • Posts: 3287
  • @PesoNeto3
    • Apologetics Workshop
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2014, 09:50:57 PM »
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power & of love and of calm, a well-balanced mind, discipline and self-control.

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 19529
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2014, 11:31:11 PM »
Thank you, guys.  ::sniff::  I'm such a sap.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Alphabet Soup

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5610
  • Hier standt ich. Ich kann nicht anders
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2014, 11:43:42 PM »
Thank you, guys.  ::sniff::  I'm such a sap.


No. You may be a softie but you're not a sap. I'm a sap.

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 19529
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2014, 12:45:32 AM »
Thank you, guys.  ::sniff::  I'm such a sap.


No. You may be a softie but you're not a sap. I'm a sap.

Okay, then, well ........ you just stop that.   ::oldman::
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online Pablo de Fleurs

  • Conservative Hero
  • ****
  • Posts: 3287
  • @PesoNeto3
    • Apologetics Workshop
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2014, 09:41:16 AM »
Thank you, guys.  ::sniff::  I'm such a sap.

I think these are effective & moving because they speak to who we are at our core...once you strip away all the bullsh*t that builds up with Red/Blue - Capitalist/Marxist- Straight/Gay - Pro Life/Abortion - etc./etc. - who I am loves people...but we have to spend time, distracted & playing defense to the assaults upon what would otherwise be a caring, serving culture where we truly have each others backs...

...but lines have been drawn & positions entrenched.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power & of love and of calm, a well-balanced mind, discipline and self-control.

Online IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10828
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2014, 10:32:02 AM »
Still won't work for me... tries to open the video in an auxiliary video app, and then it won't open in that either.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Weisshaupt

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5731
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2014, 12:02:50 PM »
I think these are effective & moving because they speak to who we are at our core...once you strip away all the bullsh*t that builds up with Red/Blue - Capitalist/Marxist- Straight/Gay - Pro Life/Abortion - etc./etc. - who I am loves people...but we have to spend time, distracted & playing defense to the assaults upon what would otherwise be a caring, serving culture where we truly have each others backs...

...but lines have been drawn & positions entrenched.

Those assaults come because a number of people, at their cores, aren't people who love people. They are people who see other people as property. As things to be exploited for their own ends.   If you strip away the bullsh*t, they will still be narcissistic, selfish, sociopathic, non-introspective  A-holes looking out only for #1. I would also suspect that 80-90%  of the population fall into this category.  As such I do not "love people" - I know what people are (Wild panicky animals. ). 

I can love a person.  I will never again be able to love people.  People can only become good through acknowledging something greater than themselves, and allowing that to modify their behavior. They become good only when they are empathetic enough to understand you do not steal because you might be caught and punished, but because that action would hurt others. They can only become good  when they can be introspective and honest enough with themselves to see their own failings.

I enjoyed the video, but found it.. dunno.  Just a little too obvious in its attempts to pull at heart strings, and a little too insincere and muddled  about its message? (spoilers ahead)

A story about an Angel (or Christ himself?)  that can see all ends, and help the world with a handful of change, doesn't seem to relate much to the day to day doings of Human beings.  If the message of the film is simply that Angels exist, or that God is watching over you and the smallest things can be bent to serve his will, then sure  I am fine with it -but it seemed to be trying to go for more.   The interaction with the boy seems to suggest that normal flesh and blood humans could do as much with as little effort. Change the world  with a pocketful of change. (or less than 1/100th as much if you want to take the boys symbolic donation at face value..) and the liberal "easiness" of it grated on me a bit. 

Attend this concert and change the world!
Feel good! You Care because you gave $1 to a homeless man.

Angels can take a handful of change and know in advance the boy will pick up a penny and this will land his mother a job ( as if she wouldn't be seeing every help wanted sign on her own..)  Angels can give payphone money to a runaway and get them to call home. Angels can mend a relationship in fifteen seconds  with a flower and an apology. People CAN'T. Even when its good people interacting, its simply not that easy, and most of the time you aren't interacting with good people, but the narcissistic, selfish, sociopathic, non-introspective  A-hole looking for a way to exploit your charity and kindness.

Your flower, your penny, your cup of coffee will not change the world unless God wills it to, and it will have very little to do with you if he does. I am not saying small acts of kindness are unwarranted, or unneeded in this world, only that 99.999% of the time they will not make changes to the big picture, and 80-90%  of the people you do them for are INCAPABLE of appreciating them and only think "there goes another sucker" as you walk away.  It takes a miracle  to make anything else happen.  Maybe God needs such seed money to make miracles occur, and its like buying a lottery ticket and hoping it pays off ( doesn't the Bible say something about not gambling?)

A "caring, serving culture where we truly have each others backs"  is a wonderful ideal, and I think those of us who are awake to the greater powers of this realm know, at our cores, that this is the way its MEANT to be.  But the reality is -- its not, and its not because of "people"

Online Pablo de Fleurs

  • Conservative Hero
  • ****
  • Posts: 3287
  • @PesoNeto3
    • Apologetics Workshop
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2014, 02:41:24 PM »
...
A "caring, serving culture where we truly have each others backs"  is a wonderful ideal, and I think those of us who are awake to the greater powers of this realm know, at our cores, that this is the way its MEANT to be.  But the reality is -- its not, and its not because of "people"

I truly hear you, Weisshaupt – just yesterday, I was ranting: a young (younger than me, he was early 30’s) black client (MBA/Professional, married w/kids) and I met for a quick follow up @  a Starbucks: our talk briefly touched upon the headlines of the last week: Ferguson, the NYC death-by-chokehold (that one does piss me off – that sort of treatment for selling cigs is absolutely inappropriate) – but he suggested that “he doesn’t necessarily agree with everything Sharpton says”…told me what I needed to know about his leanings…then a 5:30 appointment cancelled last minute & I was out in pouring rain & awful traffic to make the appointment time…and I went into a “f*ck everybody” mood for a few hours. I went home, poured a glass of wine & vegged out with an hour or so of 'Lone Survivor'.  ::machinegun::

But tonight, my son & I are assisting on stage-crew @ our church for a concert (Christian Rock) we’re hosting tomorrow evening & I’m prepping for the debate (with which I hope to reach a good percentage of the non-believing audience)…and I’m back to “hopeful” again.

I can easily…EASILY – assume “battle mode” for long periods of time…but it tires me out, makes me edgy & grumpy. There some useful idiots who, not knowing better, will take our help & not have the emotional intelligence to realize that we’re inconveniencing ourselves for their sake – and I’m O.K. with that to a point. When I get fed up with it all: I withdraw into my inner circle, go for a run, make a music mix, watch a movie (currently dissecting The Giver)…read…& then I’m ready to give some more.

As for God’s will…I pray & move as if I’m doing what He’d like me to do…& trust Him for the results. People know where my heart is…but also that I don’t take crap or excuses for any length of time. People will let you down…even good people – and the more I read & study, the thicker my skin grows: my goal is to be able to move through those disappointments faster & faster & not become totally jaded with humanity.

(BTW, another great movie for me to vegge to: the Ralph Fiennes/Gerard Butler remake of Shakespeare's Coriolanus)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 02:44:51 PM by Pablo de Fleurs »
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power & of love and of calm, a well-balanced mind, discipline and self-control.

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 19529
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2014, 02:44:59 PM »
Still won't work for me... tries to open the video in an auxiliary video app, and then it won't open in that either.

'Soup posted the actual vid upthread.  That doesn't show up for you?
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10828
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2014, 03:31:23 PM »
Still won't work for me... tries to open the video in an auxiliary video app, and then it won't open in that either.

'Soup posted the actual vid upthread.  That doesn't show up for you?

Ah, yes of course.

Not exactly sure what I'm supoposed to take away from this video, other than giving is good, and what goes around comes around. In my humble opinion, the video could've been just as effective and delivered the same message with the same sentiment and same impact if it would've been 2 minutes instead of 10. But it was nice, if unrealistic.

Homeless guys don't give their change away. They spend it on booze and drugs. Giving them money is the same as giving them their chemical of choice. That's a harsh thing to say when the message of the video is so nice, but it is what it is.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline AlanS

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7908
  • Proud Infidel
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2014, 06:00:21 PM »
Not exactly sure what I'm supoposed to take away from this video, other than giving is good, and what goes around comes around.

Same thing I got. It's the Christmas season and thought I'd reaffirm everyone's values.

In my humble opinion, the video could've been just as effective and delivered the same message with the same sentiment and same impact if it would've been 2 minutes instead of 10.

Maybe, I don't know.

But it was nice, if unrealistic.

Aren't the vast majority of videos unrealistic? They just want to make a point.

Homeless guys don't give their change away. They spend it on booze and drugs. Giving them money is the same as giving them their chemical of choice. That's a harsh thing to say when the message of the video is so nice, but it is what it is.

I agree. I was stuck in downtown Memphis decades ago. While walking around killing time, a bum came up to me with a sob story and wanted some change. Told him I didn't have much cash, but would gladly buy him a burger. Turned me down.

Wasn't 15 minutes later, I saw him almost running across the street to the liquor store. Must have found some pocket change somewhere.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

Thomas Jefferson

Online Pablo de Fleurs

  • Conservative Hero
  • ****
  • Posts: 3287
  • @PesoNeto3
    • Apologetics Workshop
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2014, 06:48:39 PM »
Agreed…totally unrealistic.

But I like the little mini-vignettes within:

o A person in need, who can still sense the needs of & in others
o The people who walk-by the needy
o The grimace on the 1st cashier’s face as the bum enters her store
o The woman who gets the job…actually wanting the job
o The perception of the (slightly) downs-syndrome boy who is probably regarded as “disposable” and maybe the reason the woman appears to be a single mom
o The girl who has experienced God-knows-what as a runaway, who reunites with her parents
o Hurting people...being cut a little slack

Unrealistic, yes…but redeeming.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power & of love and of calm, a well-balanced mind, discipline and self-control.

Offline Weisshaupt

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5731
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2014, 11:10:29 PM »

Homeless guys don't give their change away. They spend it on booze and drugs.

[/url]

As usual, someone nails in a few words what I am saying in paragraphs. "people." suck.

Pablo's thick skin may let him do it, but each layer of skin is a barrier and a shield  against people.. thus proving their suck-a-tude.
Let them reap as they have sown, as will I.
 

Online IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10828
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2014, 01:49:13 AM »
Agreed…totally unrealistic.

But I like the little mini-vignettes within:

o A person in need, who can still sense the needs of & in others
o The people who walk-by the needy
o The grimace on the 1st cashier’s face as the bum enters her store
o The woman who gets the job…actually wanting the job
o The perception of the (slightly) downs-syndrome boy who is probably regarded as “disposable” and maybe the reason the woman appears to be a single mom
o The girl who has experienced God-knows-what as a runaway, who reunites with her parents
o Hurting people...being cut a little slack

Unrealistic, yes…but redeeming.

Good points all, and none were lost on me as I watched. My cynicism regarding the homeless comes straight from the mouths of homeless addicts themselves.

During my time working with recovering rock-bottom addicts, they told me what I said above: Don't give money to the homeless, because if they are panhandling, they are addicts, and thus they'll appeal to your sympathy for drug money. These recovering addicts said giving money to the homeless is the exact opposite of what they need.

So I don't mean to crap on the nice message. Maybe I should've kept my mouth shut. But I see the homeless through that lens. Not to say there aren't unfortunate people who find themselves outdoors through bad luck or choices. But the chronically homeless - the people you see dirty on the street huddled in storefronts holding cups out for change - they're drug addicts and alcoholics, and they won't do anything good or nice with the change.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Alphabet Soup

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5610
  • Hier standt ich. Ich kann nicht anders
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2014, 10:33:10 AM »
Quote
During my time working with recovering rock-bottom addicts, they told me what I said above: Don't give money to the homeless, because if they are panhandling, they are addicts, and thus they'll appeal to your sympathy for drug money. These recovering addicts said giving money to the homeless is the exact opposite of what they need.

I remember an occasion when Random was about 8. We had pulled up to a red light at an off-ramp when she noticed a panhandler bothering people for money. He was one of the ones that are fully capable of doing honest work - they just simply don't want to. There is no way I would ever subsidize their habit.

Naturally Random sees this guy and asks me what he's doing. I explain that he's begging for hand outs. She responded by saying, "Well then why doesn't he go get a job?"


Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63663
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Change for a dollar
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2014, 11:52:30 AM »
I can be sappy, even a sap at times, but not with the homeless by choice.  I used to run into more when I worked in the heart of either downtown areas here, but I found the panhandlers in St Paul (or some of them) more entertaining.  The older ones from the hobo generation know how to put on a good show.  While wandering the streets over a lunchbreak as I often did in good weather an old gent came along, put on a good show about wanting bus change to see his girlfriend in Minneapolis, obviously a ruse, but he limped and carried on, I thought "Damn, this guy works hard for change" so I gave him a quarter and waited about 30 seconds and let him shuffle out of sight around a corner, I peaked around the corner and was not disappointed to seem him walking normally and cheerfully.  They don't make 'em like that anymore.  About the most entertainment I got for a quarter since I was ten!

My father, being of the generation born during the depression knew frugality and charity, he always wants to give a buck to the sign people at intersections, most of whom are middle age or younger, the wrong set to give any handout to, he gets upset if I am driving and deny him his urge.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.