Author Topic: Moscow-based Kaspersky Lab says somebody hacked drive firmware  (Read 818 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Moscow-based Kaspersky Lab says somebody hacked drive firmware
« on: February 17, 2015, 07:16:28 AM »
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-16/moscow-based-security-firm-reveals-what-may-be-biggest-nsa-backdoor-exploit-ever

Annonymous former NSA employees say NSA is behind it.  Given the ZH Russophilia is off the scale, once has to take this with a grain of salt, but the if true I guess I would not be surprised.  Perhaps people here more tech-minded can explain firmware and if there is a way to find out if a hack is present and/or what can be done about it.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Moscow-based Kaspersky Lab says somebody hacked drive firmware
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2015, 03:01:37 PM »
Well, I think the Snowden revelations also contained allegations that the NSA intercepted computer hardware shipments to certain targets, and put their own chips in them. It seems totally possible that they have also forced all chip manufacturers to include NSA back doors right out of the factory.

It reminds me of 2001, when the two astronauts figured out what HAL was doing.  They spoke to each other inside a sealed space pod, but HAL was able to see their lips moving and figured out what they were saying.  This government is pretty much HAL, or it wants to be.  It's a safe bet that anything done electronically is being recorded.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Moscow-based Kaspersky Lab says somebody hacked drive firmware
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2015, 05:27:43 PM »
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-16/moscow-based-security-firm-reveals-what-may-be-biggest-nsa-backdoor-exploit-ever

Annonymous former NSA employees say NSA is behind it.  Given the ZH Russophilia is off the scale, once has to take this with a grain of salt, but the if true I guess I would not be surprised.  Perhaps people here more tech-minded can explain firmware and if there is a way to find out if a hack is present and/or what can be done about it.

Okay, this seems unlikely, but perhaps possible depending on what type of architecture the drive companies have adopted lately
A Drive typically talks over a SATA interface. - which is really just a fast, fast serial bus.  This is the ONLY connection to the main computer.

One each drive there is a (typically green) PCB circuit board and on this is various circuity - this circuitry runs a program  called "firmware" that knows how to translate a computers request for data to be read from ( or writen to )  the drive into the various actions for actually doing so ( spinning the drive at X rpm, moving the head to such and such a sector, doing multiple reads to make sure they all come out the same and so on) 

Originally these  programs were stored on an Integrated Chip (IC ) - indelibly --  literally hard coded into the silicon.
Later as long term, powered off memory became cheap and inexpensive,  you could use "FLASH" roms (read only memory)  to store this information.  Flash Roms typically require you to hold a lead into them low or high, and this lets you overwrite old data ( if you ever updated a bios, its the same deal) 
This is really cool if you have a mistake in your basic program. If its in an indelable IC, you are done. you have to replace the control board. If it is in falsh, you simply overwrite the data.

  Typically on peripheral devices, like a drive,  you would have to have a special cable to plug  into a couple of jumper blocks and this would let you overwrite the drive.   In today's better world they probably replaced that with a command you could send over the SATA that would put the drive into a special mode where you would overwrite the flash, using data also sent over the SATA link.  If the morons did that, then yes you could potentially create a program that messes up how a drive works, making it copy data into special partitions etc.  Retrieving that data from the OS  and getting it over a network  would require another program (or physical access to the infected drive)  How this is helpful is beyond me, since if you have the OS access to do that, you probably haVE OS access to read the drive without mucking about with the firmware.


Offline Libertas

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Re: Moscow-based Kaspersky Lab says somebody hacked drive firmware
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 07:05:07 AM »
I think it is probably safer to assume the abosolute worst, for what good it will do, that the government is HAL on mega-steriods.

Having said that...if I understand Weisshaupts info (which is maybe a 50-50 proposition) especially at the conclusion...can firmware be used as a gateway to the OS and access any info they want?  Part of what you describe doesn't sound any different to me than the notorious viruses we've heard about that once they access your system (typically through the internet) they can cause damage to your hard drive...what's to say the direction cannot be the other way around?
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.