Author Topic: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo  (Read 9226 times)

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Offline Glock32

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ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« on: February 14, 2015, 03:29:52 PM »
The ATF has decreed its intent to ban M855 ammunition, supposedly on account of it having armor piercing capabilities.  They argue that the prevalence of pistols now chambered in 5.52/.223 means this ammo must now be subject to the law against armor piercing handgun ammunition.  This is the same reasoning they used to ban further importation of surplus 5.45x39 ammo a few months ago.

However, in neither of these cases is the steel content of the projectile genuinely "armor piercing."  In the M855 5.56 round, there is a steel penetrator intended to improve penetration of intermediate barriers, but this has never been considered "armor piercing" by the military.  In the case of the 5.45x39 round, the steel content is a mild steel mainly used because it is cheaper than lead, and was common in ComBloc production. Its penetration capabilities are little better than a pure lead round, and certainly not up to true purpose built AP ammo.

Both of these strokes of some bureaucrat's pen are clearly meant to harass and annoy gun owners, specifically owners of AR and AK "assault rifles."  The M855 round is the most commonly used general purpose target round in the AR community.

The ATF will be accepting ignoring comments on the proposed regulatory change until March 16th.

http://www.nraila.org/articles/20150213/batfe-to-ban-common-ar-15-ammo
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Offline warpmine

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2015, 04:26:30 PM »
Want to bet they have no data regarding this ammo when placed in a short barrel pistol. The muzzle velocity is usually down a bit which translates into less energy down range which would certainly negate their fears, guys taking a hit through the helmet.

I'm now seeing the transitioning of 7.62x51 mm ammo to pistol formations as well. Are they going to his us there to?
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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2015, 05:29:19 PM »
Although I'm suitably outraged at the needless infringement of our rights it is tempered by the fact that this is too damned little and to F'ing late. I can't (won't) tell you how many multiples of thousands of rounds I possess (let's just say it is a number less than infinity), or how many firearms the fire them with but it is a number that should cause any gun grabber to blanch. There are many tens of millions of citizens who are just like me.

I have one simple thought for these KKKlowns: When you pull shyt like this it only hastens the day when I redistribute that collection according to my specifications, not yours.

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2015, 05:51:14 PM »
Although I'm suitably outraged at the needless infringement of our rights it is tempered by the fact that this is too damned little and to F'ing late. I can't (won't) tell you how many multiples of thousands of rounds I possess (let's just say it is a number less than infinity), or how many firearms the fire them with but it is a number that should cause any gun grabber to blanch. There are many tens of millions of citizens who are just like me.

I have one simple thought for these KKKlowns: When you pull shyt like this it only hastens the day when I redistribute that collection according to my specifications, not yours.

Shorter version:  "Do they now?"
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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2015, 06:35:18 PM »
I'm pretty much in the same boat as Soup. I have what I want and need. Furthermore, I don't really feel the need to practice with it. I'm accurate and comfortable. If I do get the urge, I can use 30 or 60 rounds without making a noticable dent in supply.

That's not to say that the bastards who would attempt to regulate away our rights shouldn't be held in the greatest contempt. I'm just saying that what they're doing won't affect my behavior in the least.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

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Offline AlanS

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2015, 10:03:23 AM »

Shorter version:  "Do they now?"

Government= clueless. As usual.
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Offline Septugenarian

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2015, 10:17:41 AM »
I'm amply supplied as well, also have the new pieces to break in.  Then its probably be time for another boat ride on the Hunley.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2015, 03:43:33 PM »
I think as a response they can try to ignore is if everyone sends them a spent casing.
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Offline Magnum

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2015, 02:14:34 PM »
I am not stocked as I should. I love to shoot and like to go as much as I can. I am ticked as these are my favorite rounds to shoot. My AR's like them and you can could get them for cheap.

This is getting nuts.....................
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Offline Magnum

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2015, 02:58:21 PM »
Thanks Libertas,

But I believe the hoarding of 5.56 ammo has begin. The sites listed are all out of stock. Palmetto had free shipping on 420 rounds of the m855 for the past several weeks but as soon as this news broke they were out of stock quickly. From what I have been reading.......  if this goes to the courts the administration will lose. As one lawyer stated:

Quote
The fact that these clowns are going after literally the most common long-arm center-fire cartridge used in the US, by a huge margin over the next common such cartridge, makes them automatically WRONG under the Miller “in common use at the time” standard as applied in Heller. Green tip is constitutionally protected under the Miller standard precisely BECAUSE the huge amount of green tip sold proves that the People have concluded that green tip is an effective round. The People, not Congress and not the BATF, decide what we think we need.

As the Supreme Court ruled in Miller, one specific purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to protect the right of the People — who also constitute the “militia” — to have arms suitable for fighting off a invading army (which necessarily includes ammunition suitable for that purpose). Any “arms” of any kind (including specific types of ammo and specific firearm parts such as magazines of any capacity) are automatically constitutionally protected without any further inquiry if they are “in common use at the time” for any lawful purpose. The lawful purposes go well beyond the “sporting use” the BATF uses, and include the unquestionably lawful purposes of self-defense, and preparing to fight against threats against “the security of the state” as that phrase is used in the 2nd Amendment.

However by the time it does get to court the hoarding may well have driven up the prices greatly and maybe this is what the administration's goal was all along to keep supplies low and costs high. This is just getting ridiculous. I do not blame anyone who stocks up............. I was the dummy who invested in guns and gun related tools but neglected buying ammo when I had the chance and now I am mad at myself as I should have known better.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 03:05:17 PM by Magnum »
"Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the LORD your GOD will be with you wherever you go." Joshua 1:9

Offline Glock32

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2015, 10:13:00 PM »
I'm glad I bought a 900 round can of Danish M855 a while back.  Wish I had bought more.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2015, 11:08:56 PM »
I have thousands.

That said...I want more. I'm funny that way.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2015, 06:24:41 AM »
Thanks Libertas,

But I believe the hoarding of 5.56 ammo has begin. The sites listed are all out of stock. Palmetto had free shipping on 420 rounds of the m855 for the past several weeks but as soon as this news broke they were out of stock quickly. From what I have been reading.......  if this goes to the courts the administration will lose. As one lawyer stated:

Quote
The fact that these clowns are going after literally the most common long-arm center-fire cartridge used in the US, by a huge margin over the next common such cartridge, makes them automatically WRONG under the Miller “in common use at the time” standard as applied in Heller. Green tip is constitutionally protected under the Miller standard precisely BECAUSE the huge amount of green tip sold proves that the People have concluded that green tip is an effective round. The People, not Congress and not the BATF, decide what we think we need.

As the Supreme Court ruled in Miller, one specific purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to protect the right of the People — who also constitute the “militia” — to have arms suitable for fighting off a invading army (which necessarily includes ammunition suitable for that purpose). Any “arms” of any kind (including specific types of ammo and specific firearm parts such as magazines of any capacity) are automatically constitutionally protected without any further inquiry if they are “in common use at the time” for any lawful purpose. The lawful purposes go well beyond the “sporting use” the BATF uses, and include the unquestionably lawful purposes of self-defense, and preparing to fight against threats against “the security of the state” as that phrase is used in the 2nd Amendment.

However by the time it does get to court the hoarding may well have driven up the prices greatly and maybe this is what the administration's goal was all along to keep supplies low and costs high. This is just getting ridiculous. I do not blame anyone who stocks up............. I was the dummy who invested in guns and gun related tools but neglected buying ammo when I had the chance and now I am mad at myself as I should have known better.

Odd, the gunbot shows in-stock and the site out, but I guess the panic really hit.

It appears you can still get decent rounds of ball ammo, it isn't the M855, but as we've said the government goons are overstating the significance of that round making it appear more nefarious than it really is simple to hide their anti-2A fascist impulses.

http://www.jgsales.com/5.56mm-federal-55gr-fmj-bt-xm193f-ammo,-1000rds-p-65682.html

And maybe we should each buy some of this stuff just to piss them off?!

 :D

And hey, while we're at it... 

http://www.hitechammotogo.com/html/incendiary_ammunition.html

 ::thumbsup::
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Offline Glock32

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2015, 10:41:56 AM »
For anti-personnel use, the M193 is better anyway.  The appeal of M855 was the enormous supply chain.  It will put a serious pinch on the entire market for .223/5.56 ammo, so everything becomes more expensive and less available.

I've got a fair bit of M193 and commercial 55 grain .223, and I guess I will use that now, and keep the M855 in storage.  If the prices remain ridiculous for it, maybe I'll sell it and buy some more M193.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2015, 11:24:45 AM »
I agree.  Good plan too.   ::thumbsup::
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Offline Septugenarian

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Online richb

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2015, 06:25:02 PM »
I have said it before,  and will say it again and again and again. 

We have to take away the rule making abilities from federal agencies.   It is INSANE that those administrating or enforcing are also creating "laws".    They aren't congress,  and they are unelected and unaccountable.    Its the reason we have the problems we have.  IMHO,  the ATF should even exist let alone make "laws" they will be enforcing.    Congress is and should be the only law and rule writing part of government.    Its laziness on the part of congress and federal agencies are taking advantage of it.   

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2015, 07:07:06 PM »
"Wow, I don't think that I have the authority to order that" - said no fed ever.


Offline Libertas

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2015, 06:46:27 AM »
I have said it before,  and will say it again and again and again. 

We have to take away the rule making abilities from federal agencies.   It is INSANE that those administrating or enforcing are also creating "laws".    They aren't congress,  and they are unelected and unaccountable.    Its the reason we have the problems we have.  IMHO,  the ATF should even exist let alone make "laws" they will be enforcing.    Congress is and should be the only law and rule writing part of government.    Its laziness on the part of congress and federal agencies are taking advantage of it.    

Yes, they've parcelled off their authority to the executive as well as the agencies under executive control, and then they wonder why these bureaucrats feel they don't have to answer to congress...

This level of perversion can only be attained if we are in fact in the latter stages of national decay.

There is only one option left, and it is the option the E-GOP has the least stomach for, because it means taking a stand...ending the funding, and let the cries of government shutdown be damned!

The E-GOP still behaves as if the Democrat-Media Complex will play nice with them, only if they behave and play ball with Democrats...by "play ball" it means cave in and give them what they want.  And they do cave in, every time, without fail.  And what is their reward?  No better treatment by the D-MC and people once the core of the GOP leaving in droves.  Still, they view the problem is with the intransigent (principled) conservatives, not the pragmatic (unprincipled) establishment types.  Anybody see that dynamic changing anytime soon?  While the Democrats of old had hardcore progressive leftists comprising a minority that eventually grew in power and appetite to the point where we are now where their party is 99.99% hardcore progressive leftists, the natural response of the GOP was to not check that by being more conservative (apart from the Reagan Revolution which they saw as an abomination and quickly subverted it as soon as he was gone), no, they saw an opportunity to be better managers of big government as being the key differentiation with the Democrats...and their delusion is such that they did not view this as a bad thing...but the people do...when picking full-big govt or partial big govt, people more often than not go for the full, and the conservative GOP has fled in mass migrations...yet the E-GOP have not changed one iota.

So, in the end there is only one way to cut the funding.  Great masses of people have to rise up and say eff this noise, no more, we are no longer going to work, no longer paying taxes, no longer listening to your pathetic excuses for not doing your constitutional duty, so to Hell with you all, we're crashing this sh*t and starting over.

But it will crash on its own weight, I seriously doubt I'll see the mass uprising that is so perfectly necessary.

So, continue to expect the worst and don't feel bad about being made into a criminal...the likes of these asshats...calling other people criminals?  Yeah, we're at the point where that isn't the insult these fools think it is!!!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 06:57:43 AM by Libertas »
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