Author Topic: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo  (Read 27119 times)

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Offline John Florida

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #60 on: March 09, 2015, 04:15:35 PM »
  Watch for the jump in reloading equipment.
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #61 on: March 09, 2015, 07:58:03 PM »
  Watch for the jump in reloading equipment.

Guns without ammo are awkward, heavy sticks. Reloading gear without primers, powder and bullets are half-assed exercise equipment.

The gubmint has us figured out. Time to change the equation.

Offline Libertas

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2015, 06:46:59 AM »
  Watch for the jump in reloading equipment.

Guns without ammo are awkward, heavy sticks. Reloading gear without primers, powder and bullets are half-assed exercise equipment.

The gubmint has us figured out. Time to change the equation.

Amen!
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Offline Glock32

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2015, 11:20:13 AM »
Fortunately we already have enormous quantities in private hands.  Even if everything were banned today, there's already billions (trillions?) of rounds in personal stockpiles.  If Leviathan wants to proceed with its designs on our liberty, it is going to have cross the threshold into out and out confiscation, and if there's a trigger condition you've been waiting for that's it.

I've seen people create primers out of scrap brass, or reusing spent primers, with material from match heads as the priming compound.  They are crude but they do work.
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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2015, 01:35:17 PM »
They've shelved the plan to ban.

How wonderful that our Lords and Masters have deemed us permission to exercise our rights.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2015, 01:56:19 PM »
For now.  "Shelving" means they will use a stealth -- LOOK! SQUIRREL! -- moment to impose it at another time.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2015, 02:00:18 PM »
Well, this is good for the whole ammo market in general.  I am convinced the only reason they backtracked is the recent revelation that they had already changed the regulatory guide book.  That revelation proved that the "comment period" was nothing but show, and that nothing the public said was going to have any bearing on the decision.

We are fortunate that government incompetence is, well, government incompetence.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2015, 02:40:28 PM »
Demons never sleep...nor do they cease their Demonic behavior...

 ;)
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Offline Magnum

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #68 on: March 10, 2015, 04:02:23 PM »
I'll use myself as an example. I was a schmuck and thought after the AR ban scare after Sandy Hook things would calm down. Nope. The gun haters are relentless in trying to rob me and millions of other law abiding Americans a right,a hobby, a passion if you will that we throughly enjoy. After this latest proposed ban (for now backing off) on 855 "green tip" I hopefully will not be caught with my pants down again. I realize now they the gun haters will attack on all fronts. If they can't ban a gun, then they will try control through ammo. If this doesn't work ............ what other #*$&@# up proposal are they now working on. So I remain vigilant and just want to Thank You All for taking your time in writing the ATF and congress critters in fighting for our Second Amendment Rights. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 04:58:44 PM by Magnum »
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Offline Glock32

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2015, 04:57:24 PM »
I'll use myself as an example. I was a schmuck and thought after the AR ban scare after Sandy Hook things would calm down. Nope. The gun haters are relentless in trying to rob me and millions of other law abiding Americans a right,a hobby, a passion if you will that we throughly enjoy. After this latest proposed ban (for now backing off) on 855 "green tip" I hopefully will not be caught with my pants down again. I realize now they the gun haters will attack on all fronts. If they can't ban a gun, then they will try control through ammo. If this doesn't work ............ what other #*$&@# up proposal they are working on now. So I remain vigilant and just want to Thank You All for taking your time in writing the ATF and congress critters in fighting for our Second Amendment Rights. 


Any time you think you've already got enough ammo, buy another half-case.  I just received another sealed tin of 7.62x54R (440 rounds of Bulgarian, circa 1980) to add to my numerous other tins, all still sealed.  I don't shoot Mosin-Nagants very often, but I know I will never regret having these extra tins.

You don't have to go wild with it, just make a point of buying a case of ammo every couple months and in no time you'll be sitting on 10k rounds or more.
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Offline richb

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2015, 02:56:03 AM »
The reality is:  we can NEVER relax on safeguarding our rights.   Not for one minute. 

We cannot depend on a "government" to guarantee those rights.   In fact a "government" is a threat to those rights.   ANY form of  "government".   It's NEVER in the interest of a government for it to have citizens in a superior position then it does. 

That's why the bill of rights were so amazing.  It's really the only time that it was put on paper in the founding documents of a government that people had over riding rights over a government.  Some of the founders wanted to avoid putting them in.  Some insisted they be included.   For good reason.   

Maybe that is part of the reason why we have the problems we have.   They were a after thought in too many ways,  not built into the entirety of the constitution.   Maybe its not possible to make a government that won't violate human rights at some point.   So government ends up doing what they normally do,  they trample rights, even if it takes time.    Even with the rights clearly outlined, and the powers held back from the government and left with the people.

People forget that the government does not grant those rights (how could it?),  they are our rights as human beings.  Christians often describe them as God given rights.  Others may describe them as natural rights.

So the government  has no right to take something it didn't give in the first place.   The best a government can do is to not violate them.    Unfortunately our government is not doing it's best these days.

The first major cracks in the bill of rights occurred during the civil war.   Yes,  the civil war.   But that is a whole other subject.

There will alway be those who want to take our rights.  That is a REALITY as well.   A more "advanced" society does not stop that.   In fact it can make it worse.   Just look at Germany before WWII.

Some will be power hungry individuals who want them just for their own personal gain.   Those people are easier to demonize,  and some will even be open about their hunger for power.   Few people today like Hitler,  Stalin,  Pol Pot,  Castro,  just to name a few.   Yet most can inflict enormous damage,  because so many will bury their heads in the sand when they are rising.   Only government bodies make it possible for those few to do so much harm.   Hundreds of millions paid with their lives just because of these few individuals.   Just because they wanted CONTROL. 

Another type are in some ways more dangerous.   These are the people we face today.   They think they know better then the "rest of us".   They are both the islamists and the elite of our own nations.    Ever wonder why they are allied now?  Even with their major differences?   Just look at Nazis and Communists in the 1930's,  most see them today as enemies.   However back then they were allies.   Same basic major goal CONTROL,  it's the little differences that end those alliances.    It will end badly for those two groups as well.

Today's groups are insidious in their power grab.

It is all done in the name of our "own good". 

Since they know better then us,  we have to stop our activities that they have deemed wrong.  We eat the wrong things,  smoke the wrong things,  practice the wrong religions, drive vehicles that are too big,  make too much money just to name a few.    If we object,  we are demonized for various "crimes".   Like racism.   Or destroying the planet.   Stealing the future from the children.   Or practicing the wrong religion,  or for being a gun nut. 

Its hard to fight these people.  They can use unlimited resources from taxes and invented "money". They work for the government full time in thousands of government agencies.  So they will always be at "work".   Plus they fool wealthy (or not so wealthy) into spending their riches on things they should be opposing.   So many "foundations"  work 24/7 destroying freedom.   They use the poor as dupes as well.  They can be used for protesting 24/7,  and some are all too willing to destroy their own communities.  Don't get me started with the so called press and media.

We on the other hand,  have to do our regular jobs before we can defend anything.   Tea party people can only protest on the weekends or evenings,  because we have our own thing going.   Like work,  church,  family or whatever.   We cannot be on 24/7.   That's why we are losing.   We can only "do" politics in our free time.   

Its taken a century to get where we are today.  A Republican president in 2017 won't change it,  because many of that party are part of the elite.   We can only slow the "progress".   

The only way to stop it is to not allow the government to be a job.   First we have to end the "career" politician with term limits for starters.   Second,  we have to end lifetime government work.  We may need "term" limits not only for politicians but for all public sector employment. 

Also when "laws" are passed, they should first limit government power,  not limit the actions of private citizen.   Most laws are backwards in that re-guard.   

We are probably past the point where politics can fix things.   We cannot pass these government controls in todays political climate.   

People have gotten used to mostly peaceful political change.   That era is passing away quickly.   It didn't need to happen and we all will pay the price.

Offline John Florida

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2015, 06:31:29 AM »
  Don't believe them for one nano second.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2015, 06:48:43 AM »
I believe them to be evil and to act as evil would act, and that is the omnes circumstantis of my belief of them!

And Glock is giving good advice, I try to use that same approach and not just on ammo, but on PM's or anything else of value.   ::thumbsup::
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Offline Glock32

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2015, 10:24:08 AM »

Its hard to fight these people.  They can use unlimited resources from taxes and invented "money". They work for the government full time in thousands of government agencies.  So they will always be at "work".   Plus they fool wealthy (or not so wealthy) into spending their riches on things they should be opposing.   So many "foundations"  work 24/7 destroying freedom.   They use the poor as dupes as well.  They can be used for protesting 24/7,  and some are all too willing to destroy their own communities.  Don't get me started with the so called press and media.
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The only way to stop it is to not allow the government to be a job.   First we have to end the "career" politician with term limits for starters.   Second,  we have to end lifetime government work.  We may need "term" limits not only for politicians but for all public sector employment.   


This point cannot be overemphasized.  For the Left, their ideology and agenda is their job, and you're paying them to do it too.  This is the result of what Gramsci called their "long march through the institutions."  They have preoccupied themselves with careers in government and "non-profit" organizations.  They've been wildly successful, I will give them that.  Their ideology is reflected in the cultural backdrop, and is the baseline position on virtually all issues.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2015, 10:52:51 AM »
It's like Levin's Liberty Amendments...good ideas but they cannot make it through the current poisoned system...

They couldn't get term limits through, even though they had it in the Contract with America...they voted on it, they lost (with the help of eGOP traitors) and they dropped it...and it hasn't come up since...nor is it ever likely to...

The forces against Liberty are not going to be defeated easily or cheaply...and certainly not on this severely tilted landscape.
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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #75 on: March 11, 2015, 01:22:38 PM »
Quote
It's like Levin's Liberty Amendments...good ideas but they cannot make it through the current poisoned system...

They couldn't get term limits through, even though they had it in the Contract with America...they voted on it, they lost ...

The "Liberty Amendments" won't be going through the current poisoned system in DC.  The only place they have in an Article V Convention is to call for one when a majority of the States determine they shall.  Likewise, they won't be voting on or in any Amendment; they are also determined and voted on by the States only, needing a majority to ratify.

This Article V Convention of the States will happen, be it sooner or later.  It will have to.  I'd rather see it happen sooner, but if not, it will need doing before anything can be rebuilt after the dung meets the rotating oscillator.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #76 on: March 11, 2015, 01:59:54 PM »
Quote
It's like Levin's Liberty Amendments...good ideas but they cannot make it through the current poisoned system...

They couldn't get term limits through, even though they had it in the Contract with America...they voted on it, they lost ...

The "Liberty Amendments" won't be going through the current poisoned system in DC.  The only place they have in an Article V Convention is to call for one when a majority of the States determine they shall.  Likewise, they won't be voting on or in any Amendment; they are also determined and voted on by the States only, needing a majority to ratify.

This Article V Convention of the States will happen, be it sooner or later.  It will have to.  I'd rather see it happen sooner, but if not, it will need doing before anything can be rebuilt after the dung meets the rotating oscillator.

Yes, all true...I let it go without saying that far too many states are also carriers of the DC poison, they will be subject to heavy-handed "you better not call for one, or else!" and if one is called "any state ratifying just one amendment will get it!" threats from Fedcoats, and the presstitutes that far too many pay heed to (though more so than the DemonRats...I can't seem to ever understand that one), the unionistas, the race-baiters, all the loony-tune special interest thugs, punks and slugs agitating the public...FSA and ferals rioting and burning crap and beating people to death...all pressuring states and state politicans to do what they do best - piss their pants and surrender to their demands.  They never capitulate to our demands...only theirs.

If we're going to have only one side tossing crap...might as well cut to the chase and let all side toss crap.

I am certainly not opposed to the effort, I like 90-95% of what Mark came up with in the Liberty Amendments...but like anything keeping officials focused and firm and countering the trash on the streets isn't something I've seen folks have much of a stomach for...as yet.

I think a new charter of liberty will be in the offing once the flames die out...

My two bits...FWIW.


ETA - Re: Liberty Amendments (l had to grab my book for better recall) l had an issue with:

1) Bureaucracy - l would go beyond the Joint Committee, I think non-Critical departments and agencies (those not involving national security and foreign affairs) should be answerable only to Congress, the Executive could name an advisor to consult policy and administrative affairs, but officers must report to and be accountable to the people through their representatives, the Congressional delegation to Committees could incorporate this into their existing scope and the amendment would need to limit acts to increase size, scope, personnel, etc to a 3\5 vote in the full House & Senate.  The critical departments would retain their current configuration but with more Congressional consent weighted than the advice (drive by briefing) role.  Job number one paring down the bureaucracy drastically.

2) Private property - l would go further, create a process that each step puts the burden of need on the governments compelling interest so that the rights of private property are respected more.

3) Voting - Again l would go further and establish more precise requirements, more transparency in the process, harsh consequences for fraud, and a more limited in scope recount process and maybe even stakeholder requirement that only net taxpayers be allowed to vote.

4) Something has to be done about the Fed and monetary policy and banking.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 05:43:06 PM by Libertas »
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Offline warpmine

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2015, 12:41:14 PM »
Effing gun grabbing piece of scat Todd Jones is still looking to make your AR as a valued club albeit mean and nasty looking.  http://bearingarms.com/atf-chief-suggests-5-56-ammo-threat-law-enforcement/

Quote
B. Todd Jones, the Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) told a Senate Appropriations Committee meeting today that he considers all 5.56 NATO to be a threat to enforcement officers.

    In a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, ATF Director B. Todd Jones said all types of the 5.56 military-style ammo used by shooters pose a threat to police as more people buy the AR-15-style pistols.

    “Any 5.56 round” is “a challenge for officer safety,” he said. Jones asked lawmakers to help in a review of a 1986 bill written to protect police from so-called “cop killer” rounds that largely exempted rifle ammo like the 5.56 because it has been used by target shooters, not criminals.

The ATF only temporarily retreated from a plot to ban very popular and common M855 ball ammunition two day ago. The agency wants to claim that M855 is an “armor-piercing” round according to a new “framework” of the agency’s owne design, even though the cartridge has been used in the United States since the 1970s and has never met the legal definition of the term previously. It is not considered to be armor-piercing by the military, which stocks a real armor-piercing rounds that civilians cannot own called the M995.  Purely as a matter of performance against humans the M855 is an abysmal failure, which is why it was abandoned by the military for combat, and why it has been surplussed out as training ammunition.

The NRA and both houses of Congress blasted the ATF plot on M855 as simply the precursor to an attempt to ban all 5.56/.223 Remington ammunition, which would destroy the ammunition market for the most common rifle sold in the United States. Jones’ testimony suggests that is precisely the position the agency would like to take.

Worse, that position suggests that any rifle bullet that is currently chambered in an AR-15—and therefore can theoretically be had in an AR-15 pistol—is a threat to officer safety. That could affect as many as 51 rifle cartridges.

Clearly, this framework from unelected bureaucrats is a potential threat to all rifle ammunition.

 * * *

The proper answer to the ATF’s gross overreach is to completely do away with the “sporting purposes” test in the Gun Control Act of 1968, and used on a whim by the ATF in other decisions since. It is an absurd position that firearms and ammunition must have a “sporting purpose” for hunters or target shooters to be lawful.
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Online Pandora

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #78 on: March 14, 2015, 01:16:28 PM »
Quote
... he considers all 5.56 NATO to be a threat to enforcement officers.

It's supposed to be a threat.  Such is the purpose of 2A.
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Offline John Florida

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Re: ATF plans to ban most popular type of 5.56 ammo
« Reply #79 on: March 14, 2015, 07:19:33 PM »
Quote
... he considers all 5.56 NATO to be a threat to enforcement officers.

It's supposed to be a threat.  Such is the purpose of 2A.



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