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Offline Libertas

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Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« on: March 24, 2015, 07:31:15 AM »
148 Feared Dead

According to initial press reports the plane had 142 passengers on board, with another 6 in the flight crew.

It appears the flight had sent out a distressed signal at 9:47 UTC, minutes before its final moments

The weather conditions at the time of the crash were calm

There is currently a French EC-135 flying above the crash site

According to Sputnik.net, over 240 French firemen and 210 police officers are heading to the crash site.  The flight was declared in distress at 10:47 local time near Barcelonnette, according to the Directorate General of Civil Aviation.

The wreckage of crashed Germanwings Airbus A320 is located at 6,500 feet in the mountains, the French Interior Ministry said.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-24/airbus-a320-carrying-148-crashes-french-alps?page=1



I've actually been in this part of the Alps, long time ago...it is very pretty, and rugged, apart from Alpine valley farms and some ski resorts and small towns...not a lot there.



This data is very odd.  Something happened and the Vertrate went more negative and altitude began to decrease, but it all looks controlled...there is no radical juking about in lat/long and heading deviates by only 17 around that goofy 14k Vertrate mark (which looks anomalous given no change in altitude), speed is relatively stable until towards the end of the data when it slows to just over 400...

As is normal with crashes, we will have to be patient and see what develops...

For the victims - R.I.P., for the families and friends - thoughts & prayers.

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Offline Libertas

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2015, 12:08:25 PM »
OK, this puts it in a little more perspective...



Explains the lack of lateral action...thing was dropping like a rock...

Catestrophic failure or something bad happening in the cockpit?   ::speechless::

There is some data loss too...38k to 10k, the area it went down I thought said 6.5k elevation...that's a 3.5k difference only the black boxes could account for...but just what the heck happened at 38k?!?!?!

ETA - Site located...

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2015/03/debris%202_0.jpg

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2015/03/debris_0.jpg

"He said the largest pieces of debris are the size of a small car."

"Germanwings said the passenger manifest included two babies."  Oh, Lord.   :'(

"WHITE HOUSE: NO INDICATION OF TERRORISM IN AIRPLANE CRASH"  Oh STFD and STFU!  Why did THAT utterly useless dreck have to be in the article?!  B.Hussein O wouldn't know terrorism if it yanked his mangina!
 ::gaah::

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-24/first-images-germanwings-crash-debris-emerge-white-house-says-no-indication-terroris

« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 12:18:08 PM by Libertas »
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2015, 12:14:17 PM »
The debris field should indicate whether the plane was intact prior to impact, or if it broke apart in the air.  I would think even if both engines failed, those planes are capable of glider flight for nearly 100 miles, from that altitude anyway.  The data and voice recorders should reveal the cause.  At least in this case they aren't lost in 20,000 feet of water.

RIP to the deceased.   ::praying::
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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2015, 12:47:46 PM »
"No indication of terrorism" is the auto-response.

Any bets?
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2015, 01:02:14 PM »
I bet Obama is full of shat!

PS - Just heard on the radio, sounds like the black box has been found...and that no distress call was ever received...

I may be wrong, but right now it sounds as if something not right happened in the cockpit...
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2015, 01:33:26 PM »
Assuming the pilots were conscious at the time, you would have to think they'd notice the plane descending at such a steep rate.  This seems to have some similarities with the Air France A340 that crashed into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Brazil.  In that case, the two pilots were entering contradictory pitch commands on the control sticks, and the computer is programmed to average the inputs (which caused the plane to descend right into the water).  A complicating factor in that case was the malfunctioning altimeter and air speed indicators, due to ice formation in the pitot tubes.  I wonder if something similar could have happened on the Germanwings flight.
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Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2015, 04:25:48 AM »
Quote from: Glock32 on March 24, 2015, 01:33:26 PM
Assuming the pilots were conscious at the time, . . .

This could explain why there was no distress signal. Before I speculate any further, I need to know if the Airbus crashed on impact, or disintegrated in the air. With such a controlled descent, I would bet that the "crash on impact" theory would hold up.

There was a report that the front wheel doors were "repaired" to correct a noise issue. Boy, if they failed at 38,000 feet . . .
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2015, 06:40:17 AM »
Cockpit voice recorder damaged, requires "reconstitution" before it can be analyzed, meanwhile the search at the site continues, so much debris scattered and not much size...has to be just awfully gruesome work.

It seems there are two leading theories on what happened - pressurization failure requiring an immediate descent that could not be recovered or an intentional act, mostly because they are the only two logical choices for the rapid descent.

Still saying the weather was mild, early pics seem to bear that out.  It probably doesn't change things for the families and friends of the victims, but I know if it was me I would rather like to know it was an accident and not an intentional act.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2015, 02:42:17 PM »
I have my money on intentional act.
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Offline warpmine

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2015, 07:25:25 PM »
Stuka training either that or faulty input data logged into flight computer so I'm going with something similar to that of the A340 that pitched into the Atlantic a few years back previously stated.

If it were terrorism, from pilot intentional, we'd know it by now. The Germans are nothing if not efficient.
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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2015, 07:37:36 PM »
Quote from: trapeze on March 25, 2015, 02:42:17 PM
I have my money on intentional act.

Voice recorder shows one pilot was locked out of the cockpit, beating on the door for the other pilot to let him in, then trying to break the door down when there was no response.

2 Options: Terrorism, or ill-timed medical incapacitation while one pilot happened to be outside the cockpit.

Thus far, they have not named the pilot. Bets? $$$
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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2015, 08:16:14 PM »
Think we might have a Muhammad in the cockpit?  Germanwings is a budget airline.  Apparently these airlines are able to offer low fares because they have pilots who essentially fly for free (to maintain their type ratings), and is also a common place of employment for foreigners trying to build experience.

Or maybe just a real German who happened to be real suicidal.
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Offline robins111

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2015, 06:31:48 AM »
Quote from: Glock32 on March 25, 2015, 08:16:14 PM
Think we might have a Muhammad in the cockpit?  Germanwings is a budget airline.  Apparently these airlines are able to offer low fares because they have pilots who essentially fly for free (to maintain their type ratings), and is also a common place of employment for foreigners trying to build experience.

Or maybe just a real German who happened to be real suicidal.

My money is a guy named Mo, was behind the steering wheel.
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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2015, 06:57:24 AM »
Now they're saying the pilot descended intentionally.

What's his name?
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2015, 07:12:25 AM »
No names released yet that I can tell, but they'll be digging into both pilots backgrounds extensively no doubt.

Ugh!  This is disturbing news.

The only thing that may throw a wrench into the Mo theory is the fact that the events around this time indicate all is normal and calm...then one pilot is locked out (and since 9/11 all cockpit access doors have been beefed up, right?) and cannot get in and there is no answer from within...no voice from within either, if a Mo was in there I would expect him to be muttering all that cultish bullsplatter they typically chant.

And now the data-recorder is found but missing its memory card.  Not sure if it will shed light on anything though given this new info...barring a mechanical issue we are back to what happened to the pilot still in the cockpit.

I supose incapacitation as a result of loss of pressure or something could have occured after the other pilot left the cockpit...but it is going to be hard to figure out what happened...not sure what kind of info could be found to glean that, but the results of the pilot background investigation should help flesh that out.

Maybe it was Mo who locked himself in set the descent and incapacitated himself...?

Need more info.

Meanwhile, the grim task of victim identification continues...

"The biggest body parts we identified are not bigger than a briefcase," one investigator said.

Ugh, what a necessary but depressing task.  I hope those folks are given whatever resources they need to make their job easier to cope with.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2015, 07:37:35 AM »
Here we go...


Andreas Lubitz, 28, of Montabaur  (Employed only a few months and only a few hundred hours of experience)

Prosecutor Brice Robin's findings state that when the German Captain left the cockpit - following what appeared to be - the 28-year-old German co-pilot (who was alive to the end) refused to re-open the door and began an "intentional", "controlled", and "steady" descent as he "seems to have sought to destroy the plane."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-26/germanwings-co-pilot-deliberately-destroyed-airplane-identified-28-year-old-german-c

Not a Muzzie name, but...that doesn't mean anything...

Need more background on this guy and I bet people are going after it like ravenous sharks...

Andreas, you despicable bastard...Hells flames are your reward for this cowardly act.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 07:53:03 AM by Libertas »
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Offline warpmine

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2015, 07:48:59 AM »
Quote from: Libertas on March 26, 2015, 07:37:35 AM
Here we go...


Andreas Lubitz, 28, of Montabaur  (Employed only a few months and only a few hundred hours of experience)

Prosecutor Brice Robin's findings state that when the German Captain left the cockpit - following what appeared to be - the 28-year-old German co-pilot (who was alive to the end) refused to re-open the door and began an "intentional", "controlled", and "steady" descent as he "seems to have sought to destroy the plane."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-26/germanwings-co-pilot-deliberately-destroyed-airplane-identified-28-year-old-german-c

Not a Muzzie name, but...that doesn't mean anything...

Need more background on this guy and I bet people are going after it like ravenous sharks...

Andreas, you despicable bastard...Hell's flames are your reward for this cowardly act.
A day late I am with that link. OK, a few hours anyway.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2015, 07:54:02 AM »
Quote from: warpmine on March 26, 2015, 07:48:59 AM
Quote from: Libertas on March 26, 2015, 07:37:35 AM
Here we go...


Andreas Lubitz, 28, of Montabaur  (Employed only a few months and only a few hundred hours of experience)

Prosecutor Brice Robin's findings state that when the German Captain left the cockpit - following what appeared to be - the 28-year-old German co-pilot (who was alive to the end) refused to re-open the door and began an "intentional", "controlled", and "steady" descent as he "seems to have sought to destroy the plane."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-26/germanwings-co-pilot-deliberately-destroyed-airplane-identified-28-year-old-german-c

Not a Muzzie name, but...that doesn't mean anything...

Need more background on this guy and I bet people are going after it like ravenous sharks...

Andreas, you despicable bastard...Hells flames are your reward for this cowardly act.
A day late I am with that link. OK, a few hours anyway.

Huh?  I didn't step on your toes, did I? 


ETA - More info:

The Federal Aviation Administration's Airmen Certification Database contains the following listing:
 
UniqueID: A4833038
 FirstName: Andreas Guenter
 LastName: Lubitz
 Street1: Am Spiessweiher 8
 Street2: Montabaur
 City: Rheinland Pfalz
 State:
Zip: 56410
 Country: GERMANY
 Region: EU
 MedClass: 3
 MedDate: 062010
 MedExpDate: 062015
http://aviation-business-gazette.com/A44/B58/Pilot-Andreas-Guenter-Lubitz-Rheinland-Pfalz-.html
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 08:01:14 AM by Libertas »
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Offline warpmine

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2015, 08:50:42 AM »
Quote from: Libertas on March 26, 2015, 07:54:02 AM
Quote from: warpmine on March 26, 2015, 07:48:59 AM
Quote from: Libertas on March 26, 2015, 07:37:35 AM
Here we go...


Andreas Lubitz, 28, of Montabaur  (Employed only a few months and only a few hundred hours of experience)

Prosecutor Brice Robin's findings state that when the German Captain left the cockpit - following what appeared to be - the 28-year-old German co-pilot (who was alive to the end) refused to re-open the door and began an "intentional", "controlled", and "steady" descent as he "seems to have sought to destroy the plane."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-26/germanwings-co-pilot-deliberately-destroyed-airplane-identified-28-year-old-german-c

Not a Muzzie name, but...that doesn't mean anything...

Need more background on this guy and I bet people are going after it like ravenous sharks...

Andreas, you despicable bastard...Hells flames are your reward for this cowardly act.
A day late I am with that link. OK, a few hours anyway.

Huh?  I didn't step on your toes, did I? 


ETA - More info:

The Federal Aviation Administration's Airmen Certification Database contains the following listing:
 
UniqueID: A4833038
 FirstName: Andreas Guenter
 LastName: Lubitz
 Street1: Am Spiessweiher 8
 Street2: Montabaur
 City: Rheinland Pfalz
 State:
Zip: 56410
 Country: GERMANY
 Region: EU
 MedClass: 3
 MedDate: 062010
 MedExpDate: 062015
http://aviation-business-gazette.com/A44/B58/Pilot-Andreas-Guenter-Lubitz-Rheinland-Pfalz-.html
Oh, hell no. Just read it at the same site and was about to post until I saw it from you. I was an hour behind.

What kind of sick bastard that is 28 with whole life ahead, has a great job(assuming he likes to fly) decides to kill himself and 147 other with him?
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Lufthansa A320 Flight 4U9525 (Barcelona to Dusseldorf) Crashes In French Alps
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2015, 09:21:15 AM »
I think some of these people who commit high profile suicides, taking a bunch of others with them, are of the same psychological state as the school shooters.  I bet the research into this guy will reveal a lot of the same traits that have become almost cliches at this point: withdrawn, borderline autistic type personality, etc.

The monkey wrench in this theory is that commercial pilots are supposed to undergo significant medical clearances to weed out this sort of thing.
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