Topic: North Carolina Sheriffs Association once again blocking pro-gun bill

[Glock32]

For the fellow NCers here:


There is currently a pro-gun omnibus bill in the NC General Assembly, House Bill 562.  This bill would strengthen existing pro-gun measures, as well as taking another crack at eliminating our obsolete, antiquated system of pistol purchase permits.  As you know, in NC you cannot buy a handgun without having first obtained the gracious permission of your local sheriff's office.  This is in essence a leftover Jim Crow law designed to prevent black people from buying handguns by giving sheriffs arbitrary veto power on deliberately ambiguous bases like "poor moral character."

Anyhow, the legislature attempted this in the last session too.  They ended up having to remove that portion of an earlier pro-gun bill in order to pass the rest of it, because the NC Sheriffs Association was raising a big stink about it.  They're doing the same thing again.

From the NRA:

The North Carolina Sheriffs’ Association (NCSA) is speaking out in opposition to House Bill 562 due to a provision that repeals the requirement that law-abiding citizens must obtain permission from their local sheriff before acquiring a handgun.  This antiquated and inefficient system has been in place for nearly a century and was enacted long before the age of computers and computerized records.  Unfortunately, the NCSA has determined it would like to continue to use discretion to deny permits to purchase handguns, rather than simply use the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) utilized by the majority of other states.

North Carolina sheriffs have a history of using different standards when determining the process for issuing permits for purchasing handguns.  HB 562 would eliminate this patchwork and create a uniform, statewide standard.  Many sheriffs have stated they support repealing this system immediately.  The NCSA, however, is opposing this legislation despite the numerous members it supposedly represents who would like to see the permit system repealed.

Please take a moment to contact your sheriff and urge him or her to respect the Second Amendment, support law-abiding gun owners and oppose the efforts of the NCSA.  Please also take a moment to contact your state Representative and urge her or him to support HB 562, especially the provisions that would repeal the permit-to-purchase.

NRA remains committed to passing HB 562 and repealing the antiquated, inefficient permit-to-purchase system, and we will continue to update you on developments on this front.

[Libertas]

Minnesota is also a "permit" state, you have to get a "permit to purchase" from the local yocals to buy what we have a right to won and bear, then you have to also get permission via "CCW" permit to carry said thing you have a guaranteed right to bear.  It doesn't get any more unconstitutional than that, but that is what latter day America is like.  I understand the intent to keep firearms out of the hands of maniacs but the problem has always been one of asking "who has the right to determine who is or may be a maniac?" and I submit that it is not government because: a) it is antithetical to Founding principles for it to make that call when the right to keep and bear arms is a sacred God-given right, government is not God! b) government would assume everyone is a potential maniac and ban all ownership and use, we see this tactic tried many times many different ways by the Left time and time again...and their aims ALWAYS lead to confiscations and bans.  c) Government cannot take it uipon itself to protect everyone from everybody, if that were the case we would indeed have a full-blown police state where even the most innoculous items like hammers and screw-drivers would be banned along with guns, knives and clubs.

If government does not come to its senses and back off peacefully it will only ensure the issue will be resolved with blood, and that blood will be on its hands.

Since we here in Minnie have DemonRats controlling one chamber and they have Gov Goofy I doubt any of our  pending items will ever see daylight.  I hope y'all fare better.

[Glock32]

Since we here in Minnie have DemonRats controlling one chamber and they have Gov Goofy I doubt any of our  pending items will ever see daylight.  I hope y'all fare better.

And that's what is most irksome about this.  For the first time in forever, NC has Republican majorities in both chambers of the legislature, as well as a Republican governor.  If this measure cannot pass now, then it's not ever going to.

This is where my patience also gets thin with the "law and order" brand of conservatives. Because they're such badge polishers they're afraid to go against the Sheriffs Association.  And for their part, the Sheriffs Association is probably motivated less by ideology and more by the fact that they charge citizens money for each permit they get.  Eliminating the requirement would cut off a source of cash that probably goes directly into their department budget.

[Libertas]

Since we here in Minnie have DemonRats controlling one chamber and they have Gov Goofy I doubt any of our  pending items will ever see daylight.  I hope y'all fare better.

And that's what is most irksome about this.  For the first time in forever, NC has Republican majorities in both chambers of the legislature, as well as a Republican governor.  If this measure cannot pass now, then it's not ever going to.

This is where my patience also gets thin with the "law and order" brand of conservatives. Because they're such badge polishers they're afraid to go against the Sheriffs Association.  And for their part, the Sheriffs Association is probably motivated less by ideology and more by the fact that they charge citizens money for each permit they get.  Eliminating the requirement would cut off a source of cash that probably goes directly into their department budget.

Yeah, I hear ya.  And once the permission slip notion is accepted it is that much harder and sadly unlikely that it will ever be junked, and then further encroachments never contemplated before start getting voiced and enacted.  Next thing you know people are being herded into train cars and you hear the inevitable wail of the fool..."How did this happen?".

Makes me want to preemptively cull the herd...maybe with an iron mallet...

[warpmine]

Since both laws in those states are so antithetical to liberty why haven't they been challenged in federal courts as anti-constitutional? I mean if progtards can force same sex marriage upon us Bible thumpers that why can we not force this upon them? It is as they say, only fair.

[Libertas]

Probably because the world is effed up and entirely upside down.  Right, wrong or indifferent...I quit torturing myself years ago why people become stupid and evil, I accept it for what it is and go about my business.  It will all get sorted out the only way it was ever meant to be sorted out.

[Libertas]

Speaking of effed up...

"In other words, while the NRA criticizes the North Carolina Sheriff’s Association for blocking the state bill that would end their current gun purchase approval system, the group has no problem perpetuating the federally mandated system."

    

No doubt when personally confronted they'll deny they are OK with the federally mandated system...the NRA brass is really good at manure spreading when they need to be...

 

[Glock32]

The NRA is the 800 pound gorilla in 2nd Amendment advocacy.  They are not perfect, and they are infected with some of the same Compromise^TM mindset as the GOP, but I remain a member because on balance they do a lot of good.  Recent attempts at capitalizing on tragedy by the anti-liberty crowd wouldn't have been defeated without the lobbying weight of the NRA.

I'm also a member of GOA, and they are a better fit to my ideology.  Having both groups is good though.  The NRA has gotten better, and I think a lot of that is due to the GOA being something of a stalking horse.

As far as the NICS check that they favor over the NC permitting system, well I think they are aware that most people -- gun owners included -- agree with having some mechanism to prevent criminals from obtaining guns and the NICS check is at least not overly obnoxious.  At any rate, I would much rather walk into a gun store and buy a pistol after the usual NICS check than to first have to apply for permission from the sheriff, then go pick up permits however many days or weeks later.

[Alphabet Soup]

I'm also a member of GOA, and they are a better fit to my ideology.  Having both groups is good though.  The NRA has gotten better, and I think a lot of that is due to the GOA being something of a stalking horse.

Same here. NRA's chief shortcoming (IMO) is their insistence on pretending that they can be effective as a "single-issue organization". That's like being colorblind - one can manage but you're missing a huge part of the spectrum.

The curious thing about this fight is that it includes the Sheriff's department. In my state the city cops and the state cops are the jackboot types while the Sheriff and his deputies are more reasonable.

[Libertas]

The NRA is the 800 pound gorilla in 2nd Amendment advocacy.  They are not perfect, and they are infected with some of the same Compromise^TM mindset as the GOP, but I remain a member because on balance they do a lot of good.  Recent attempts at capitalizing on tragedy by the anti-liberty crowd wouldn't have been defeated without the lobbying weight of the NRA.

I'm also a member of GOA, and they are a better fit to my ideology.  Having both groups is good though.  The NRA has gotten better, and I think a lot of that is due to the GOA being something of a stalking horse.

As far as the NICS check that they favor over the NC permitting system, well I think they are aware that most people -- gun owners included -- agree with having some mechanism to prevent criminals from obtaining guns and the NICS check is at least not overly obnoxious.  At any rate, I would much rather walk into a gun store and buy a pistol after the usual NICS check than to first have to apply for permission from the sheriff, then go pick up permits however many days or weeks later.

I understand that and in a perfect world I be happy if that were the case and no other threat ever surfaced...but we do not live in a perfect world, far from it, and once the idea any database is OK then it leaves the door wide open for a better database, after all better, is ahh, better, right?  And once we acknowledge some people (insert criteria and bureacracy to determine that and hope and pray they do not have an ulterior agenda) should be prevented from owning firearms, then the door to redefining the criteria and the means to enforce it are flung wide open.

As we all know too well, the progressives are not reasonable, they do not accept any notion of live and let live with respect to us and any of our God-given rights (especially Second Amendment rights!), and I wish we would all fight not just holding actions but offensive actions to rollback limits never meant to be there in the first place.

I acknowledge we no longer live in that world, and I like you belong to both organaizations, primarily because there is nobody else fighting for any part of the cause or promoting firearm ownership other than these two...but that won't stop me from criticising them when they deserve it.

In the early years of the republic the way irresponsible firearm owners were dealt with was a) jail/execution after a trial if they murdered/maimed someone, b) a relative taking their guns away, or b) relatives committing the lunatic to an asylum.

The latter now days is frowned upon, even the batshyt crazy have rights and treating them with a suitcase of drugs and leaving them in society is the answer...even though the progs want doctors to rat them out and prevent them from owning guns, so the effect is the same but the enforcement mechanism is effed up and out of the peoples (families) hands.  And if a relative tries to take guns away from a relative they get arrested and tried, but the state can kick in doors all day long for no reason and confiscate whatever they want.  And the guilty walk everyday.  So a big part of the problem is the society at large and the progressive bullsh*t they've adopted and allowed...if not for that I would have much less concern about government malfeasance, as it stands I am overrun with justified loathing of the state and of statists.

Sorry for the rant...you get a lot from a nickel with me sometimes...   

[Libertas]

I'm also a member of GOA, and they are a better fit to my ideology.  Having both groups is good though.  The NRA has gotten better, and I think a lot of that is due to the GOA being something of a stalking horse.

Same here. NRA's chief shortcoming (IMO) is their insistence on pretending that they can be effective as a "single-issue organization". That's like being colorblind - one can manage but you're missing a huge part of the spectrum.

The curious thing about this fight is that it includes the Sheriff's department. In my state the city cops and the state cops are the jackboot types while the Sheriff and his deputies are more reasonable.

Yup, definitely not a good sign.  Just like that county in KY going after those off-griders.  Some counties are advertising the need for a "For Sale" sign by sensible property owners.

[Glock32]

I am fully in agreement.  I think a big part of our problem though is the degree to which people have just absorbed liberal premises through osmosis.  It's everywhere in the culture as the "normal" position on virtually any question, and even nominally conservative people have unconsciously accepted many of the premises. It complicates matters.

We have to wage the culture war with the knowledge that some things are just battles that will have to be fought later.  This sounds uncomfortably close to the E-GOP and their "not the hill to die on" excuse making, I know.  But I look at it as incremental improvement if we have to tout the NICS system as the reason that it's feasible to do away with the archaic sheriff's approval.

[Libertas]

I agree with that, it is why I belong to the NRA & GOA, nobody else is even trying to fight, and where offensive strikes can be made it is cause for celebration, and while it does feel a little E-GOPish, at least battles are engaged on many hills, so that is the prime difference between the two.  And yes, killing the permission slip process first is absolutely necessary for a host of other rollbacks to even have a chance of success.

And it must be understood that while events may overwhelm this and everything else, this is one of the necessary battles to wage now, because it will help win hearts and minds when the real shooting starts.

Let them fire first...   

[Libertas]

See!

It's the eff'n hammers I tell ya!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nypd-shoots-hammer-attack-suspect-article-1.2220522

They are dangerous and racist!

[Glock32]

So now Bloomberg's group is funneling money into the state in an effort to defeat the bill.

Anti-gun extremists, such as former New York City Mayor and billionaire Michael Bloomberg, are funneling out-of-state money into North Carolina in an effort to derail the Second Amendment Affirmation Act, House Bill 562.  As previously reported, the North Carolina Sheriffs' Association (NCSA) is also working against this bill.  Both misguided efforts are focused on trying to maintain the antiquated, inefficient law that requires law-abiding North Carolina citizens to ask permission from their local sheriff before being allowed to purchase a handgun.  The NCSA supports the nearly 100-year-old law that allows sheriffs to use arbitrary, personal discretion when determining who may lawfully purchase a handgun, rather than use the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) utilized by the majority of other states, and also used in North Carolina for purchases of rifles and shotguns from licensed dealers.

Fortunately, the sponsors of HB 562, along with NRA, remain committed to the passage of this critical legislative reform.  Along with repealing the handgun purchase permit system, the Second Amendment Affirmation Act seeks to make a number of important improvements which would:

   

• Require the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of a jurisdiction to certify the transfer or making of a firearm in a timely manner.  This measure had been removed in a previous version, but has been added back to the bill.
• Clarify the exemption for keeping a firearm in a vehicle by a person with a valid Concealed Handgun Permit while the vehicle is on the property of a public school.
• Improve the existing Range Protection Law, which would help to protect shooting ranges from new local ordinances designed to shut them down.
• Improve the issuing process and remove unnecessary disqualifiers for Concealed Handgun Permits.
• Remove the prohibition on using a lawfully possessed short barreled rifle for hunting.
• Strengthen North Carolina’s preemption statute.