Author Topic: Unless there is more to this story, Breckinridge KY Sheriffs just went Gestapo  (Read 7665 times)

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Offline Libertas

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http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/05/report-police-seize-10-children-from-family-because-they-are-off-grid/



Yeah, they look dangerous as hell!

/

Chilling.

Wait till they come across someone not willing to kneel before fascist actions...



We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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Yeah they certainly look abused and malnourished don't they?  Actually their real crime is that they're off grid AND conspicuously caucasian.
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Online Weisshaupt

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Yeah they certainly look abused and malnourished don't they?  Actually their real crime is that they're off grid AND conspicuously caucasian.
and Christian.

Online Weisshaupt

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From the family facebook page:

Quote
"Blessed Little Homestead
20 mins ·

I want to be clear. I do not condone violence or threats of violence. Unless we are in direct danger. Self defense is the only reason to use physical force.

We can change things peacefully. I ask that you all do the same. Please refrain from making threats of physical harm to anyone.

Many blessings. ~Nicole
Like · Comment"

Not sure this cop and his family deserve such protection.

Quote
Blessed Little Homestead
4 hrs ·

I am really overwhelmed. I have had just under 2k friends of the homestead page.

Today I have 8k. And most of you have been wonderful. I have more messages than I have time to address. I will do what I can

Most of you are new here and don't know us very well. This story went so much farther than I expected. When I was released yesterday I was thinking some friends got together and raised a bit of money to help with our financial set back and to help with any compliance CPS would request. I have people from all over the world contacting me

I know there are some of you who don't approve of what we do. But thats ok. You are welcome to your views.

What I am not ok with is the use of force to impose those views on me.

For 9 years I have journaled my families life online. I have a purpose. I want to help others as well.

This incident has been brewing for years. As many parents have relayed, it's exhausting to have to worry if CPS is going to show up and what they are wanting to do.

Sure, they come in, say things are ok, but often they don't. 5 minutes on google will give you a good picture of the innocent families torn apart.

Back in March I had promised to post photos of the cabin. I know many of our Homestead friends have been asking.

I was reluctant. I wasn't prepared for the backlash that might arise from those who oppose our lifestyle. Many of them showed

But it's done. We are here. And it's no better time to share. Have your opinions. That's fine. I know people who live in ways I don't approve of, but their lifestyle is socially acceptable. I certainly wouldn't justify force.

I don't want people to live in fear. I want people to have confidence in their choices.

If you don't like the way someone lives, let them be. Bullying them won't accomplish anything.

~Nicole



Interview with a Friend

and raw audio from the kidnapping.
and here


And yeah- they beat up a pregnant woman.

Quote
Friends of the Naugler family in Kentucky reached out to us and asked us to tell their story. Their 10 homeschooled children were allegedly taken away by Breckinridge County Sheriff deputies and CPS this week, allegedly acting on an anonymous tip. The officers reportedly had no warrant to enter their property. Nicole Naugler is currently 5 months pregnant, and reportedly attempted to drive away from the property with a couple of the children. Officers allegedly detained her from leaving her own property, and when she objected to them taking away her children, they allegedly “slammed (her) belly first into the cop car and bruised and scraped on both arms.”

Seriously.. because she is white, christian ( well I think morman)  and off-grid. 


« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 07:18:17 AM by Weisshaupt »

Online Weisshaupt

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the "there is more to this story" part

Quote
What these things do demonstrate, at the very least, is that this family desperately needs help and they ought not be lifted up by homeschoolers as martyrs for the movement.

Again, real life is always going to be more complicated. We are never going to get a "clean" confrontation  where the moral high ground is very clear. The Government doesn't want that sort of optic. They want to use "muddy" cases to get the point across that you could be next.

I really don't see much here.. These people may not be saints.  They may have committed other crimes. But that is based on hear-say and still requires a  warrant for arrest, and some bad checks don't justify removing children from their parents.
The strongest allegations come down to this: it is now child abuse to raise children EXACTLY how they were raised by 90%+ of the population 100 years ago. Yes, back then there were piles of trash ( I still have trash rising to the surface 100 years later..) , open pit latrines ( outhouses)  and water was fetched - usually from open bodes of water - by children.  Basically that boy scout camp you attended as a kid or the week long camping trip you took with your father? That was child abuse.

Now not being able to "present papers please" at your govt Nazi check points is now apparently considered "abuse" as well. Not co-operating with a government investigation seems to be the main reason they were taken.

So yeah, these people may be "trouble" - but then you get them for the actual things they are doing. You don't just march in there without a warrant and take children because they refused you access to them  and you couldn't obtain a warrant that would grant you such access.

Oh and special mention ..
"The recordings also include Nicole Naugler refusing to answer in the negative when asked by the sheriff’s officer about whether they would use weapons against law enforcement"

Got that. Somehow she did something wrong by remaining silent.  I think most of us would be silent on that question as well- especially in this situation.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 08:12:24 AM by Weisshaupt »

Offline Glock32

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Quote
But it's done. We are here. And it's no better time to share. Have your opinions. That's fine. I know people who live in ways I don't approve of, but their lifestyle is socially acceptable. I certainly wouldn't justify force.

I don't want people to live in fear. I want people to have confidence in their choices.

If you don't like the way someone lives, let them be. Bullying them won't accomplish anything.

~Nicole


That's an admirable way to live, but the whole Culture War boils down to the fact that "live and let live" only works when there is mutual agreement to leave others be.  By definition the Left will never leave others alone.  It's their way or the GULAG.  It's their way or the unmarked mass grave.  The entire 20th century is one example after another of what Leftists do when they're in power.
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

- Yours Truly

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Thanks for the link Weisshaupt. It provides a bit more background into the circumstances how things came to a head with this family. I still see zero justification for the cops to interfere and harass the family. The quality of life for these kids might be better in Detroit (but who am I to judge?) and the dad is a Loser (but at least he is around).

So far zero evidence of neglect or abuse has been demonstrated. Case closed, return the children and leave these people alone!

Online Pandora

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Out of curiosity and because I remembered a particular case, I did a search for women living in their homes with no power or water, and managing well-to-okay doing so, who have been threatened, harassed, hassled and fined for various code violations by the local "authorities".  It seems to bother "the authorities" when people decide to live off-grid for whatever their reasons.  For instance, in Coral Gables, Fla., a law mandates homes to have electricity and city water hookups.  One woman stopped using their water and they're insisting she pay to reconnect even if she won't use it.

Juxtaposing here for a minute, Obongo's EPA is closing coal mines and imposing draconian regulations causing power plants to shutter all over the country which will result in brown-outs and black-outs, we are warned.  California eco-nazis have set about refusing to continue to build the necessary water supply and storage infrastructure while simultaneously flushing what water the state does have out to sea to "protect" a stinkin' bait fish.  This has resulted in starving farmers of irrigation water and the rationing of water to everybody else hoi polloi.

So, "the authorities" demand we join the collective, using the current utilities, or face consequences, until they decide (as they are) that such amenities must be rationed and what we are allowed to cost dear, in which case we're told to just deal with it.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Good point Pan. The ironic thing is that, if you fail to pay the extortion, er utility bill they place a lien on your property. If it goes too far (and remember that they NEVER let anything slide unless it's for one of their "protected species"), they evict you from your property - thus separating you from the very utility you shunned in the first place.

Liberalism in a mental disorder.

Offline warpmine

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Good point Pan. The ironic thing is that, if you fail to pay the extortion, er utility bill they place a lien on your property. If it goes too far (and remember that they NEVER let anything slide unless it's for one of their "protected species"), they evict you from your property - thus separating you from the very utility you shunned in the first place.

Liberalism in a mental disorder.
Liberalism in a mental disorder and forcing upon others is a crime against God.
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The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline Libertas

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I still see nothing here that rises to the level that warranted the actions of these Sheriffs.  It is especially disheartening that this raid was conducted by the one local LEO that should be the most responsive to personal liberty, but apparently the Sheriff is of the ProgTard variety and sees no wrong in any of his actions.

People in this county should take note and seriously consider finding a more hospital area that repsects liberty.

Glocks statement above - "...the whole Culture War boils down to the fact that "live and let live" only works when there is mutual agreement to leave others be.  By definition the Left will never leave others alone.  It's their way or the GULAG.  It's their way or the unmarked mass grave.  The entire 20th century is one example after another of what Leftists do when they're in power." - is dead on 100% correct.

Plan accordingly.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline sfetter

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As much as I respect most everyone here, You guys are off base on this one.  Law enforcement has an obligation to protect children from abuse.  And there has been much documented abuse with this family.  They are living like filthy animals with no electricity or water.  There is also a 19 year old step son of the father who left the home years ago with a different mother.  He has reported years of abuse when he lived with his father.

In taking an objective look at this family, it is clear that these adults should not be having children at all.  They are not right mentally, and no child should have to live in those conditions in this country.  Even though Foster care is far from perfect, those kids have a much better chance of being a productive person being taken away from these parents.

Offline Libertas

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Links/sources?
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline sfetter

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Just did a quick search on the web of the local TV station where I saw the story.

http://www.wdrb.com/Global/searchresults.asp?vendor=ez&qu=Off+the+grid

Don't know if any of the above shows the video they actually showed on the news.  But if you saw the report I saw last night, I think most would have a different opinion than what is on this thread.  Just trying to be fair.

Also - In showing the video last night that I saw, the sheriff that was interviewed was noticeably upset by the conditions he found the children in.  I might not be the best judge in character, but i think he was sincere.

Offline Libertas

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I am not distrusting you my friend, it is just when it comes to the MFM I do not trust what I see, I in fact do not watch my local newscasts and haven't for years...they are notoriously stocked full of progressives...

Video isn't working for me...but most of these links boldly state "arrested for living off the grid" which I was not aware was a crime...and it looks like the charges were (changed?) after the raid began (the father is charged with "menacing", ohhh, the PoPo had to be quaking in their skivies at that!) and the mother (disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, sure, if they took your kids would you be like, "yah, take 'em"...maybe it depends how well behaved they are)...and now that they have the kids the state can go all Kathleen Morris/Scott County, MN on the kids and use them to convict the parents...when I see no charges of abuse...

It looks like since there are tarps and such covering their rustic c1700 indian village homestead that their main crime is the state doesn't like their lifestyle and they found the most pathetic looking people they could find to make an example out of so nobody else gets such notions into their heads.

And this - "I have one incident where I went to their residence," Pate said. "They are uncooperative anytime you deal with them, no matter what it is."

It is not their duty to be cooperative with anybody coming out and starting anything they don't like on their own property!  These cops act like everyone in their jurisdiction is chatel, and must comply with every request (order) as if it came on down from God Almighty.

If there is credible evidence of child abuse I'll gladly help vet it, until then it still looks like government run amok to me.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Alphabet Soup

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IMO this story hinges on "abuse or neglect". Nothing else matters or is of importance. I've read through all of those links as well as a bunch of other treatments of the story and none - zero - have introduced any evidence of abuse or neglect.

I don't condone or condemn the Naugler's lifestyle and hasten to say that I could sure do better than what I've seen, but I'm not their keeper. The state has an interest in the welfare of the children but the damned Hippocratic Oath should apply to them as well.

Offline Libertas

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And...if "living conditions" are a criteria for state intervention and seizure of children then every single low-income dwelling in America, many occupied by minorities purposely enslaved by progressives and often preyed upon the worst by members of their own race, are in immediate peril of invasion.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Weisshaupt

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As much as I respect most everyone here, You guys are off base on this one.  Law enforcement has an obligation to protect children from abuse.  And there has been much documented abuse with this family.  They are living like filthy animals with no electricity or water.

So your assertion is that the family of ten who lived in my 400 sq foot  farmhouse 100 Years ago were "filthy animals"? The Native Tribes of every continent are filthy animals who abused their children because many of them  live in tents?  The thousands of people currently  living the rural great white north and Alaska without electric power and running water  are filthy animals? Was I am filthy animal the summer I spent working on Colorado Trial crews and living out of a tent - with  no electricity or running water?

Living without electricity or running water is the NORMAL state of at least 50%  of the worlds population. That is not "abuse" -- its the natural condition of man.
No, I would not choose it for my children, and I have spent a great deal of my personal fortune ensuring that I will not be without those things, but its not abuse to not have them.
I have yet to see any evidence that the latrine was improperly maintained or that the children were living in feces. I have see no evidence that the father Hit or otherwise abused his children ( hearsay of stepsons with vendettas not withstanding) ,

That isn't to say there is nothing wrong with these people... there probably is.. but that doesn't make what they are doing "abuse". They live in the same conditions as the children, and at least so far, I have not see any evidence that they are being mistreated. Its only pampered 1st world sensibility's that might make it seem so.


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Offline Septugenarian

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In my own youth living off the grid was not a choice for a good many folks as the grid did not extend all that far at the time.  My grandparents homestead still does not have electricity nor running water (unless you count the creek out back).  I live in those circumstances for months at a time by my own choice.  I guess I'm to be classified as some kind of undesirable because of that experience (which could serve me well in the future).
I'm entitled (to be cranky).

Offline IronDioPriest

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I'm gonna defer to sfetter's closer-hand knowledge of the situation until I learn more. Gestapo raiding a family because they don't have electricity - while such things don't seem as unlikely as they once did - seems too incredible to take at face value without more evidence.

There are an increasing number of conservative sites out there that create sensationalist headlines that don't match the news, extrapolate false narratives from real events, and exaggerate aspects of stories, all based on the predispositions of conservatives to mistrust.

I still trust that most cops want to do the right thing. Surely there is room and reason to be wary, and question things when they don't seem right. But destroying a family because they don't have electricity is either way too sensationalist to be true, or it is going to risk destroying the career of any government official involved. That doesn't seem like a gamble more than one zealous bureaucrat would be willing to make - let alone entire departments across multiple agencies.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

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