Topic: Government regulation: Lemonade Day done wrong

[Pandora]

Several posters still want to link me to an organization with which I have no connection. Again, the formerly named "Consumer Health Education Council" described in these posts has never had a link to my organization, and we had an email spat over their user of the name until they decided to change theirs. (They made an honest mistake, I think, in picking the name.) They have some involvement with insurance, though I know not what, and changed their name after they were notified that we had existed since a decade before. I have paid no attention to them since then, but from what I remember their values were not consistent with my libertarian ideology. My organization was a 501(c)3 at its inception, but has been a private organization for years. All donations we have received have been from private individuals, and none from business or government.

I have better things to do than to put out these kinds of brush fires. I've stated the facts and people can do with them what they want or invent fables. It really makes no sense to associate the beliefs I expressed in my LA Times piece with statist, welfare state, corporatist, or anti-capitalist positions or behaviors, but there are people who believe almost anything.

Alright, then.

Perhaps you could provide a link to your website, or explain a bit more for what your organization advocates?

You're right about the dissonance between the tone of your LA Times piece and statism, so any additional information would be appreciated.

[radioman]

Here in Houston seveeral months back we had regulators shutting down kids running lemonade stands.

Shame on the regulators and polikBuroKraps.  

EDIT:
Now what I don't see happening is these same regulators/BuroKraps shutting down these 'street vendors' selling God knows what out the back of forsaken Pickup Trucks and Wagons. What gives with that? I'll bet you 10 to 1 they are not licensed in any way either.

[IronDioPriest]

Several posters still want to link me to an organization with which I have no connection. Again, the formerly named "Consumer Health Education Council" described in these posts has never had a link to my organization, and we had an email spat over their user of the name until they decided to change theirs. (They made an honest mistake, I think, in picking the name.) They have some involvement with insurance, though I know not what, and changed their name after they were notified that we had existed since a decade before. I have paid no attention to them since then, but from what I remember their values were not consistent with my libertarian ideology. My organization was a 501(c)3 at its inception, but has been a private organization for years. All donations we have received have been from private individuals, and none from business or government....

I'm guilty of drawing that wrong conclusion, and I do apologize.

Ya gotta admit though, a person could get thrown off by two identically named organizations. 

"NAACP you say? It's ahhh... it's a... different NAACP. Yeah, that's the ticket!" 

Sorry for the miscue nicmart. My bad.

[LadyVirginia]

Apologies.

[Pandora]

I understand the error and harbor no ill feelings, but this isn't the only place where I've had to quash this misconception. It's an annoying distraction. If you have access to a database that includes it, or a local library, you can check out my views with THE Consumer Health Education Council as far back as the May 1, 1990 issue of Vital Speeches of the Day. Mine was titled, "Environmental Myths and Hoaxes. It is not reprinted, but it is referenced here:

http://elibrary.ru/item.asp?id=1531160

"Presents a speech by Nicolas S. Martin, Executive Director for the Consumer Health Education Council, delivered to B'nai B'rith Hillel Foundation, which argues that predictions of environmental disaster have been overworked myths and hoaxes."

Give us something concrete with which to counter any false information and we'll help where we can.

For what does your organization advocate?

[LadyVirginia]

I understand the error and harbor no ill feelings, but this isn't the only place where I've had to quash this misconception. It's an annoying distraction. If you have access to a database that includes it, or a local library, you can check out my views with THE Consumer Health Education Council as far back as the May 1, 1990 issue of Vital Speeches of the Day. Mine was titled, "Environmental Myths and Hoaxes. It is not reprinted, but it is referenced here:

http://elibrary.ru/item.asp?id=1531160

"Presents a speech by Nicolas S. Martin, Executive Director for the Consumer Health Education Council, delivered to B'nai B'rith Hillel Foundation, which argues that predictions of environmental disaster have been overworked myths and hoaxes."

Sounds interesting.

[charlesoakwood]

The next morning I began a three-day phone trek through the maze of government agencies that regulate businesses and food sales, and I watched my child's All-American plan crumble like fresh-baked cookies.

In real America one need not ply regulations for approval, being an American in America is approval and anyone saying otherwise is un-American.

[John Florida]

I'm practicing "polite".   

 Aren't you glad you did that?

[rickl]

I'm just now reading this thread for the first time.  Thanks, nicmart, for stopping by and filling us in on the details.

I love the internet.  You never know who's going to show up.  I remember one time when David Frum commented at Belmont Club.  I respectfully told him that I wasn't a fan of his, but gave him credit for commenting there.

There was also the time at Neo-Neocon when a commenter told of knowing Valerie Jarrett and her family when they were children in Iran.  (She was born in Iran of American parents.  That was when the Shah was in power and Iran was our ally.)  Reading those comments made her seem more like a human being to me, rather than a one-dimensional caricature that I would normally see by reading my usual anti-Obama websites.

This is the power of the two-way media known as the internet.  It would be a good thing if political leaders, business moguls, and media figures read and comment on blogs more often.  It would not only allow ordinary people to see them as normal human beings, it would also show the movers and shakers that ordinary people are intelligent and have original ideas and insights of their own.  The caricatures and stereotypes on both sides would vanish.

[IronDioPriest]

This PROFILE of nicmart links to This LINK which leads to a profile for:
[blockquote]Consumer Health Education Council
2121 K Street Nw
Washington, District of Columbia 20037[/blockquote]
which gives a website for the CHEC as: www.healthchec.org which leads to... nowhere.

The profile page for the CHEC gives this company description:
[blockquote]To reduce the number of uninsured Americans and improve the health of the general public through information and research that helps individuals and plan sponsors understand the value and uses of private and public health insurance.[/blockquote]

The link provided by nicmart is a Russian website that references a speech for which there seems to be no text, only circular links and pdf icons that lead to nowhere.

Without more information... I'm needing more information.

We're a community here nicmart. We shoot straight with one another, and what you're telling us doesn't add up. Whether that is because we're all dense or because you're being cryptic, I don't really care. If you'd like to stay and explain, I'm all ears, and perfectly willing to be shown what I'm missing. On the other hand, if it's not worth your time to help us understand who you are, what you advocate, and where we're going wrong in attempting to assess the veracity of your claims, then it's not worth my time either.

[charlesoakwood]

mr postman - the marvelettes High Quality (Video with artist and music info) must see this

[Pandora]

CO, show 'em what you got, will you?

[charlesoakwood]

I Googled, see below, and bam #1 & #2 it's IAF in full print ready transcript!

Then comes Ray Harvey, who's blog was also corrected by Mr. Martin.  
I re-read Mr. Martin's LA article and I say, a case that it is a lesson in submission could be made.  

So, we have a Double agent commie council mole.  
I mean, how is one published in the LA Times with no CV?


Google Query: "Consumer Health Education Council" Indianapolis

#1 - Print Page - Government regulation: Lemonade Day done wrong
May 3, 2011 ... A search for, specifically, Consumer Health Education Council Indianapolis, turned up little, but this is a government agency, folks, ...
itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=1321.0 - Cached

- http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fitsaboutliberty.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Dprintpage%3Btopic%3D1321.0&rct=j&q=%22Consumer%20Health%20Education%20Council%22%20Indianapolis&ei=LlLLTdyvGcX10gG067iACQ&usg=AFQjCNH9tVWdGKCDUj6teDnTIoQ4Qg2YZg&cad=rja

It's the whole damn thread

#2  Government regulation: Lemonade Day done wrong
May 10, 2011 ... A search for, specifically, Consumer Health Education ...
itsaboutliberty.com › Topics › Politics/Legislation/Elections - Cached
Show more results from itsaboutliberty.com

#3
http://rayharvey.org/index.php/2011/05/lemonade-stands-instead-of-teaching-a-kid-about-running-a-business-she-got-a-lesson-in-government-regulation/
Ray Harvey
Quote
It was written by a bureaucrat (no less) fellow free-marketeer named Nicolas Martin, who’s the executive director of the Consumer Health Education Council in Indianapolis — and whom I incorrectly branded a bureaucrat until he gently corrected me —


At his site, comment #4 directs to an LA Times Opinion rebuttal to Mr. Martin's article which ads credibility to him, who&whatever he is.

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2011/05/you-have-to-hand-it-to-nicolas-martin-he-took-lemons-and-because-he-couldnt-make-lemonade-he-made-a-federal-case-out-of-th.html

JF, I guess I'll have to work on that polite thing a little more.

[Pandora]

Nothing impolite about the truth, CO.

Thanks.

[charlesoakwood]

http://discussions.latimes.com/20/lanews/la-oe-martin-regulations-20110501/10
nicmart at 4:29 PM May 2, 2011

Since there is never a shortage of McCarthyite accusation on the Internet, I want to make it clear that my organization has never received a dollar of funding from industry. Furthermore, I oppose any link between government and industry.

On the other hand, the organization behind Lemonade Day is sponsored by the sugar cartel, infamously kept afloat by tariffs that have cost Americans billions of dollars. Lemonade Day is also supported by many other large corporations and government agencies. You can find "Imperial Sugar Marketing Tips" on the official Lemonade Day website.

http://www.lemonadeday.org/imperial-sugar-marekting-tips

Source Watch your guide behind the names
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Council_on_Science_and_Health

The American Council on Science and Health (ACSH) describes itself as "a consumer education consortium concerned with issues related to food, nutrition, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, lifestyle, the environment and health. ACSH is an independent, nonprofit, tax-exempt organization.
....

Nicolas Martin was ACSH's administrative director during parts of 1988 and 1989. He dubbed ACSH's President, Elizabeth Whelan, the "junk food queen" for her defense of companies who make products with low nutritional value.

Martin says that during his tenure with ACSH he saw or was informed of instances when funders were intimately involved in ACSH projects. Before Martin's arrival at the organization, ACSH published a booklet on sugar and health. He says that he was told by ACSH's then vice-president, Edward Remmers, that the booklet was printed in-house by The Hershey Company. Martin says that during his tenure ACSH was producing a booklet on alcohol and health that the Stroh Brewery Company participated in editing. Neither booklet included an acknowledgement of funder participation.

Martin claims that in 1999 The Professional Lawn Care Association of America (PLCAA) asked ACSH to publish a booklet defending chemicals used for lawn care. He says that Dr. Whelan insisted that ACSH would only produce such a defense if the PLCAA made a donation to fund it. This is the sort of quid pro quo Dr. Whelan has always claimed that ACSH has never permitted.[15] Martin says that he notified ACSH board members of these apparent violations of ACSH policy, but that no public acknowledgement or correction resulted.

Martin disputes Dr. Whelan's claim to be a libertarian, noting that she has long supported government limits on the sale of food supplements, and controls over tobacco sale and use by adults. He notes that Dr. Whelan attended a fundraiser to support the Supreme Court nomination of Robert Bork, whose constitutional views are anathema to most libertarians.

From 1991 to the present, Martin has been executive director of the Consumer Health Education Council

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Consumer_Health_Education_Council
There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or edit this page.

Nicolas S. Martin  inveterate reviewer:

http://www.amazon.com/Panic-Pantry-Fallacies-Consumer-Library/dp/0879757329
However, it seems a bit odd that these "quackbusters" and "junk science" critics don't provide footnotes for their own assertions.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/AN92S28RV1FQ4/ref=cm_cr_dp_pdp
Reviews (211)


Read more: http://news.cnet.com/Mac-Views-Does-iPhone-hit-the-spot/2009-1042_3-6148638.html

Nicolas Martin

The iPhone exceeds my features expectation: it is packed with innovation.

In my experience a phone gets a lot more abuse than my iPods, so I'm not sure I want to buy a unified product that is expensive and that I will surely destroy by dropping.

One of the preannouncement rumors was that Apple would sell the phone unlocked, so it could be used with different carriers. I'm disappointed to find that Cingular is the exclusive service provider. That will severely limit sales.
Nicolas Martin is executive director of the Consumer Health Education Council in Indianapolis. He's owned more than 30 Macs since 1984.

[John Florida]

I Googled, see below, and bam #1 & #2 it's IAF in full print ready transcript!

Then comes Ray Harvey, who's blog was also corrected by Mr. Martin.  
I re-read Mr. Martin's LA article and I say, a case that it is a lesson in submission could be made.  

So, we have a Double agent commie council mole.  
I mean, how is one published in the LA Times with no CV?


Google Query: "Consumer Health Education Council" Indianapolis

#1 - Print Page - Government regulation: Lemonade Day done wrong
May 3, 2011 ... A search for, specifically, Consumer Health Education Council Indianapolis, turned up little, but this is a government agency, folks, ...
itsaboutliberty.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=1321.0 - Cached

- http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fitsaboutliberty.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Dprintpage%3Btopic%3D1321.0&rct=j&q=%22Consumer%20Health%20Education%20Council%22%20Indianapolis&ei=LlLLTdyvGcX10gG067iACQ&usg=AFQjCNH9tVWdGKCDUj6teDnTIoQ4Qg2YZg&cad=rja

It's the whole damn thread

#2  Government regulation: Lemonade Day done wrong
May 10, 2011 ... A search for, specifically, Consumer Health Education ...
itsaboutliberty.com › Topics › Politics/Legislation/Elections - Cached
Show more results from itsaboutliberty.com

#3
http://rayharvey.org/index.php/2011/05/lemonade-stands-instead-of-teaching-a-kid-about-running-a-business-she-got-a-lesson-in-government-regulation/
Ray Harvey
Quote
It was written by a bureaucrat (no less) fellow free-marketeer named Nicolas Martin, who’s the executive director of the Consumer Health Education Council in Indianapolis — and whom I incorrectly branded a bureaucrat until he gently corrected me —


At his site, comment #4 directs to an LA Times Opinion rebuttal to Mr. Martin's article which ads credibility to him, who&whatever he is.

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2011/05/you-have-to-hand-it-to-nicolas-martin-he-took-lemons-and-because-he-couldnt-make-lemonade-he-made-a-federal-case-out-of-th.html

JF, I guess I'll have to work on that polite thing a little more.

 Pound away my boy pound away!!

[charlesoakwood]

Drive safe.

[John Florida]

Drive safe.

 That was nice of you to say. See you do care.

[Libertas]

 

[ToddF]

I've found most people that run think tanks, organizations, what-not, like to get whatever ideas or information they're peddling, out to the public.

"Most" being a key word. 

The problem with having to research, is that we keep coming across interesting bits like...

Former staff

Nicolas Martin was ACSH's administrative director during parts of 1988 and 1989. He dubbed ACSH's President, Elizabeth Whelan, the "junk food queen" for her defense of companies who make products with low nutritional value.

Heh.  Like lemonade?

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Council_on_Science_and_Health

As for us being paranoid?  You might have a point there.  I have it on good authority that one or two in here actually supported Robert Bork, back in the day.