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Online Pablo de Fleurs

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How Wide the Divide?
« on: July 16, 2015, 10:26:53 AM »
Not posted as a response to our culture, or the deviants (they'll simply scream)...but to other believers

How Wide the Divide: Sexuality at the Forefront, Culture at the Crossroads

Posted by Ravi Zacharias on July 15, 2015

A century ago these times were imagined and they are now here. How do we live as Christians in such times?
My mother-in-law is ninety-five years old. She has lived through several wars and numerous other cataclysmic events in her life. Nothing has her more perplexed, shocked, and almost emotionally stunned as the culture wars that have been waged and have changed our world. I see her sitting in church when I am visiting her, obviously wondering why all of her past memories have been lost in the present format of worship. She is not at home either in the world or in her church and eagerly awaits the day when she can be in the City of God, her eternal home.

What has changed? How did we get here? As Nietzsche would say, “Is there any up or down left? Who gave us a sponge to wipe away the horizon? Will lanterns have to be lit in the morning hours? What sacred games will we need to invent?” Yes, a century ago these times were imagined and they are now here. While the secular world has invented its secular games, many churches have invented their own “sacred” games.

The most daunting question for us today is how do we live as Christians in such times? The decision of the Supreme Court of the United States sent tremors around the globe and I have received scores of messages asking whether we, at RZIM, are going to say anything in response. What more is there to say? The spectrum of views that were immediately expressed said all there was to say. When the law passed, the first thought that came to my mind was Chesterton’s prophetic comment more than half a century ago: “For under the smooth legal surface of our society there are already moving very lawless things. We are always near the breaking-point when we care only for what is legal and nothing for what is lawful. Unless we have a moral principle about such delicate matters as marriage and murder, the whole world will become a welter of exceptions with no rules. There will be so many hard cases that everything will go soft.”

That breaking point is here.   

After hours of pondering and praying, I would like to say something to my fellow believers and followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. Naturally, some who disagree with my views will probably be reading this as well so I have to expand the justification a bit. I am keenly aware that on this subject winning the approval of all is not only impossible but if done, would be at the risk of substance. I shall try to walk through this minefield.

As Christians, we often look outside of ourselves and wonder why the world is so different from us. We seldom pause and ask how the Church of today has become so different from what it was and so indifferent to the world around us. Liberalism is not just a political term. What has happened in our world was foreseen a few decades ago. Changes were underway then and we were taken by a storm from within. Culture at large moved unabashedly towards the mockery of the Christian worldview; Eastern religions were spared that, either because of the cowardice of the Western critic or simply to not be seen as attacking another ethnic group. But the Church is really where the titanic shifts in the culture started. As the liberal church swung to the extreme of religion without absolutes, the evangelical church flirted with emotionalism without intellect, while some of the mass distributors of spirituality peddled a cosmetic version of truth that was hollow and hairstyles became more important than what was going on in the head itself.

Of course, there are exceptions to these generalities. Some of the most thriving churches today are those that have a deep allegiance to the gospel message. I am honored to often be in their midst and I have hope because of them. But for now, let me just talk about how wide is the divide between secular society and the Church, and why it is.

There are three starting points that separate the historic Christian view from those who called for the legalizing of gay marriage that is now the law of the land, albeit by one vote.

One, we come from two different definitions of what it means to be human. For the Christian, life is in the soul. The body is the temporal home. George MacDonald said it well: “You do not ‘have’ a soul; you ‘are’ a soul, and ‘have’ a body.” For the one living with a secular worldview there is no such thing as the soul. To be sure, that is not true of all in that disposition. I know many who would not deny the essential spirituality of human life and will admit to a deep struggle between their attractions and their cautions. Strangely, there has also arisen a strained view that seeks to justify the marital bond between any two consenting adults as biblically permissible. I shall not wander into an apologetic countering that. But there are those within their own ranks who seriously challenge such distortion. Fine theologians have argued and demonstrated the cracks in their foundations.

For the most part, in secular terms NOW is all we have and NOW is the moment to enjoy whatever one pleases. A soul-less existence makes the body the sole means of fulfillment. When one starts that way, sexuality is a thing to be restricted only by parameters that are materially referenced. As the songwriter said, “In the dark it is easy to pretend that the truth is what it ought to be.” Touch becomes defined by feel and taste, nothing more than that. “I feel I enjoy it so please stay out of my way.”

The contrast here between the Christian worldview and the secular is a big one. For the Christian, not only is life in the soul, but the body, in Jesus’s words, is the temple of God. That is the highest locus of communion between a human being and God. For the one who recognizes no such thing as the sacred, the body is the playing field of life and pleasure sets the rules. This is a significant difference as a starting point.

Two, the Christian believes in absolutes. For the secular person, moral relativism is the only absolute. No one ever really says what something is relative to, but the implication here is that there is no boundary for behavior. Even the economic destruction of those with whom they disagree can become the water-boarding and the slow kill of the secular armory. For the relativist, no decision is determined by a transcendent definition of life, and where there are no absolutes, there had dare not be any prohibition by anyone else. The banner of the atheistic society in England during Christmas two years ago said it all: “There probably is no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.” Relativism is the open door to fun, absolutes the closed door that destroys fun. That is the way it is seen.

Three, the defender of sexual freedom sees a parallel between what is seen as anti-gay prejudice today and racial prejudice as it was practiced at its lowest point decades ago. Here, a word game has entered the vocabulary. Relativist convictions are supposedly prejudice-free, while absolute convictions are branded as phobias. Any stigma can lick a good dogma, it is said. With that verbal deconstruction of a worldview, all questioning of sexual freedom is castigated as a phobia. Quite amazing that atheists are not called “theophobes” or that those against Christians are not called “christophobes.” Pejoratively, the counter positions have been appended with phobias till we may have a whole new polyphobic dictionary.

But that is the lesser problem. I contend that equating race with sexuality is actually a false premise and an unfortunate analogy.? In the matter of race it simply doesn’t matter how I feel about it; my ethnicity transcends my preferences or inclinations. In the Hindi language there is a mildly mocking expression to describe one who acts different to his or her essence in race: “Desi murghi pardesi chal” … “this is a local bird with a foreign walk.” As was recently established, a person may feel like one race, associate primarily with that race and think like that race, but that doesn’t change who she really is. Why is this analogy unfortunate? Because it moves the debate from what is right to what are one’s rights. Ironically, the political party now most aligned with arguing for rights was once the same party that argued against the emancipation of slaves because of the slave-owners’ “rights.” In that case, those rights were overruled by what was right. Interesting that a new word wasn’t coined then to describe those who made moral arguments against the slave-owners’ rights as “slaveophobes.” Thankfully, essential human worth and moral reason trumped existential and pragmatic preferences and by God’s grace, what was right was deemed to be right and the slave was freed.

There are absolutes. To the Christian, every person is made in the image of God and is loved by God. He sent his Son for the whole world, not just for those of a particular race or sexual proclivity. Sex is a sacred trust with deliberate boundaries. It is at once one of the greatest gifts and one of the greatest struggles. The 5000-year-old struggle in the Middle East has its roots in polygamy when two half-brothers shared a father but not the same mother.

?The violation of race is a violation of the sacred and for the Christian, the violation of sex is seen the same way. The secularist does not see the latter as a violation where there is consent, but this is simply not so for the Christian. Desacralization is an emptying of essential purpose and meaning and leads to the loss of essential purpose in life itself. This is why it is vacuous to say that if two people love each other they may express it in any way they choose. Love is not defined in a way that is self-referencing. It ultimately hangs on the peg of God’s love and how He defines love.

But here a caution is critical. All violation of the sacred, not just sex, is ultimately in need of God’s grace and forgiveness. That is the Christian view. That is why the good news is that God’s gift of salvation and redemption is offered to all. That is why what is right has to win the day over what we may see as rights. As hard as this may seem to some, it is the only hope to avoid the misuse of reason for other attractions. Can we not, on the same argument presently used—adult consent—someday justify a multitude of proclivities? Even more, what is to keep Sharia Law from being brought into the culture to respect the rights of a particular group only to have it one day used by extremists to overrule our present laws? After all, extremists have ways of dictating for all. Isn’t that what we witness time and again? This is not a slippery slope. This is an irrational, runaway train driven in the name of rights and tendentious reasoning. It can happen. I suspect it will happen. The cultural plausibility can shift. Not everything that is fatal is immediate.?
With these three chasms, the heart sinks and exclaims, how wide is the divide?!

This, then, brings me as a follower of Jesus Christ to the three most important bridges between all of us, regardless of our views on this issue. The gay community rightly cries out for identity and intimacy. These are, after all, the longings of the mind and heart of every human being, regardless of our position on this issue. This is where the gospel enters as the only way to bring us together.? Indeed, the first bridge of the gospel is that my identity is found in Jesus Christ because of whom I must tame my passions. My identity dictates my behavior. Before I committed my life to Jesus Christ, my identity within my culture was dictated by the status of my family: who my father was, how I did in school, what my grades were, how much money I had access to. All these were and are systemically woven into my culture. I had no choice. This is how I was viewed. Take a look at the matrimonial section in India’s newspaper today. Color, caste, education, wealth, beauty all are repeatedly mentioned as parents seek what they consider the best partners for their children. It’s so clearly discriminatory. When my sister married a Hindu convert to Jesus Christ, the challenge for his parents was huge. But amazingly, their understanding of what Jesus Christ had done for their son changed everything. This is the only bridge I know of that can change the human heart.

It is because of this relationship that we change our behavior from what attracts us to what we act upon. This connection is crucial. If I know what it is to be a man, I know how sexual attraction works. Over time you learn that giving in simply does not bring lasting happiness or purpose. It is only in the keeping of the body as the temple that the sacred is upheld and the grace of God brings conviction and restraint. The Bible says we are not to place our offerings on every altar. One psychologist describes indulgence as “short term fleeting relationships with long term bitter disappointments.” This is true of all behavior and of all sexual expression that runs afoul of God’s design. He has built this law into the human fabric. Deep inside we know this. Temporal allurements are ultimately unfulfilling without a spiritual bonding and binding. It is the eternal that must guide the temporal.

The second bridge the gospel brings is intimacy. We all long for touch. This is true even in the most senior years of one’s life. I have talked to people working in homes for the aged and they have remarked on how much the elderly miss a physical touch and embrace. This is how we are made. Carrying that concept into sexuality, consummation is the all-embracing act of intimacy. Being as consummate as it is it demands exclusivity, otherwise it is rendered profane and common place. Experience tells us this repeatedly. Cultures that totally desacralize sexuality are non-existent. Even the polygamous guard the numbers. Even the unclad have boundaries. There are laws that govern against rapacious acts.

The biblical description of marriage is for one man and one woman in sacred commitment. So profound is this union that the relationship of God to the Church bears that comparison. He is the bridegroom; the Church is the bride.

Is this so abstract that it doesn’t come down to where we are in our individual yearning for intimacy? Not in the least. According to the gospel, God offers us his indwelling presence where spirit touches spirit and the deepest, truest intimacy results. I am fully aware that to one who has never tasted intimacy with God this seems absurd. But it is here that I think we as Christians need to awaken to the unpleasant reality that we have not taught and proclaimed God’s Word faithfully and demonstrated true holiness.

How can my mind be transformed so that intellectually I understand perspectives and counter-perspectives? How do I so embrace God’s truth that it transforms my heart and my inclinations, or at least gives me the ability to control my inclinations? I have a colleague who confessed to having same sex-attractions. He went on to say that on a given day he thought and thought about the Christian message and finally and wholeheartedly surrendered himself to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. In his words, he “sensed a presence of being overcome from the top of my head to the soles of my feet…I have tasted a glimpse of heaven; why would I stoop to what is below?” Are there days of struggle for him? Is there a certainty of his new affections in Christ? “Yes,” he says to both questions. I have a huge respect for him and his sacrifice.

For the Christian, the question is this: How do I so walk with God that ALL my affections are brought under Jesus’s Lordship, whether my inclinations be same-sex or opposite sex or any other struggle? How may I love those with whom I disagree on these serious matters? The bridges will always be the identity and intimacy offered in the heart commitment to the Savior, first lived out then lovingly taught.

Also, for the Christian we must remember that we cannot make this realm the eternal order. Our earthly cities are not what eternity alone will bring. Augustine’s two most memorable masterpieces are his Confessions and his City of God. As he lay dying in his home city, barbarians were already scaling the walls of Rome. Even as many churches were being destroyed, the main ones he had planted withstood the carnage. Incredibly, even though his mortal frame was breaking down, people continued coming to him so that he could pray for them. That is a glorious picture. His body was meeting its end. But his soul was not. He had confessed his need for his Savior and he looked to a city whose builder and maker was God. All earthly cities will at some time crumble and fall, as will our mortal bodies. Our eternal place of abiding is in God’s presence, no longer merely in a counter culture but in a place prepared for us. Augustine’s life enfleshed all those truths.

The third and final bridge of the gospel is that of community: the love of God working through us as a Church where worship brings together all our inclinations, surrendered to God’s sacred call for all of us. That is worked out in love and grace. Our worship will have to have theological integrity, not just in form but in substance; worship that is not just moments of exhilaration but is co-extensive with life itself and sermons that are not merely heard but are also seen. The outreach of love will then be embodied and not be mere talk. The Church must not be a fortress guarded by a constabulary but a home where the Father ever awaits the return of each of us who is in the far country.

For those who follow Jesus Christ, our message to the world must be clear. God transforms the heart and mind and we become his children and his ambassadors. Let us so live that we will never be accused of hate or indifference. But let us also know that compromising the truth is a serious blunder and ends up celebrating that which is not in the will of our Father. This is a painful tension for a believer. To be seen as rejecting a belief or a behavior is not the same as rejecting the person. But God helps us to carry that burden.

By contrast, when Truth is lived out in love and grace, it will always make the faith attractive and even the one who opposes us will recognize the fearful symmetry of a conviction for the sacred that will swim against the tide and a commitment to the person that will find a bridge of hope. We must so live the gospel that men and women will call upon God’s name and make this body his home until we reach our Eternal City bought with the precious sacrifice of Jesus Christ. His body was broken for us so that ours might be mended for Him.

___________________________________________________________________________
Ravi Zacharias is Founder and President of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM)
http://rzim.org/global-blog/how-wide-the-divide-sexuality-at-the-forefront-culture-at-the-crossroads?utm_source=RZIM+Email+List&utm_campaign=b9d6eba03e-How_Wide_the_Divide_Ravi_Supreme_Court7_15_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ebbd391d89-b9d6eba03e-44399713


https://apologeticsworkshop.wordpress.com/2015/07/16/how-wide-the-divide-sexuality-at-the-forefront-culture-at-the-crossroads/
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 12:37:11 PM by Pablo de Fleurs »
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power & of love and of calm, a well-balanced mind, discipline and self-control.

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2015, 12:28:55 PM »
First, good talk.

Second, nitpick:  what's with all the misplaced question marks?

Third, "Let us so live that we will never be accused of hate or indifference."  Admirable sentiment, but, today, I don't see how that's possible.
These accusations regularly have no rational connection what is said or done, and they are directed precisely at how one lives when Christian.  So much of it is connected to sex and sexual behavior, with race coming close behind.

Point:  the delisting of sexual sins as sins is at the top of Satan's "done" list (substitute the Left for Satan; same thing); however, flip the concept to see the reaction against sin as defined by the extremists who claim no belief in the Biblical and in whose presentation there is no love for the "sinner". See:  MADD.

Pick a sin, any sin, and the onus is put on those who acknowledge it as a sin, and to be avoided.  Today, this is called 'blaming the victim'.

I don't know how to love these people.  I am failing the Lord, I know, and I despair in this.  Even with those close to me, to continue loving them, I cannot stay close for my anger wants to become overwhelming.  There are days when I'd choose to distance me from myself as well, so the condition is not limited to others.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2015, 12:45:38 PM »
Thanks - I cleaned up the ?s - the system must have misinterpreted something (quotation marks?) - they  don't show up in the version on my blog.

As to "love" - one of the things I attempt (often unsuccessfully) is to represent Christ, even as I am defending a vicious attack on my faith & often my person (when the attacker gets personal) as well as present the logical evidence of why faith is reasonable/rational.

But, may I offer a remedy. George Washington was a fine, upstanding Christian man. I'm sure he had an abiding love for mankind & his fellow human beings. And perhaps he even, on some level, loved his former British countrymen...

...while ordering his men to shoot & kill them for attempting to usurp his freedom.

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"Love thine enemies...even as ye bludgeon them to the pavement."
--Pablo de Fleurs
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power & of love and of calm, a well-balanced mind, discipline and self-control.

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2015, 01:04:16 PM »
"Love is something more stern and splendid than mere kindness."
~ C.S. Lewis
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2015, 01:11:14 PM »
Oh honey, that is so me.  In dictionary, at stern is my picture.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2015, 01:12:03 PM »
"Love is something more stern and splendid than mere kindness."
~ C.S. Lewis

Great quote!

Also, Pan – the author is Ravi Zacharias - who probably has the largest, worldwide Apologetics organization & is very active on college campuses across the country with formal presentations & intellectual Q & A sessions, spreading the gospel. I've heard him say on a number of occasions, that the “powers that be” micro-scan his writings & public utterances, looking for anything to boot him off campus in the name of hate-speech. So he probably has a more aggressive private opinion (he’s written that Islam isn’t a religion, but a violent, geopolitical system of subjugation) & then a public face for his organization, RZIM.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power & of love and of calm, a well-balanced mind, discipline and self-control.

Online Pablo de Fleurs

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2015, 01:12:56 PM »
Oh honey, that is so me.  In dictionary, at stern is my picture.

Any relation to, uhm...Howard...???  ;D
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power & of love and of calm, a well-balanced mind, discipline and self-control.

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2015, 01:43:10 PM »
Oh honey, that is so me.  In dictionary, at stern is my picture.

Any relation to, uhm...Howard...???  ;D

No, smarty-pants.   ;)

I know who the author of the piece is, and thanks for the "he probably has a more aggressive private opinion".
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2015, 04:07:28 PM »
I know who the author of the piece is, and thanks for the "he probably has a more aggressive private opinion".

I know he does. I have several DVD sets by RZIM - & just remembered that on one of them, along with RZIM associate Michael Ramsden, Ravi goes into how throughout culture, while homosexuality has always been there (Greek & Roman cultures especially, with boy-toys for senators & Caesars being trendy)...NEVER have ANY of those cultures edified it via martial status; thus, in several respects, we're worse than those moments of civilization.

I read, this morning, that insurance companies are now starting to tell their church clients, that they won't be covering lawsuits brought by homosexuals in the event that the church in question refuses to perform homosexual marriage... ::pullhair::

For Churches That Won’t Perform Same-Sex Weddings, Insurance Begins to Look Iffy
Quote
Churches, like virtually every functioning corporation, protect against liability risks and the potentially ruinous costs of litigation through liability insurance. With same-sex marriage now recognized as a constitutional right — and with news of Oregon’s Bureau of Labor and Industries awarding a lesbian couple $135,000 in damages for “emotional, mental and physical suffering” after a Christian bakery refused to bake their wedding cake — pastors are reaching out to insurance companies to make sure they’re covered. And at least one insurer has responded with a preemptory denial: no coverage if a church is sued for refusing to perform a same-sex wedding.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420928/churches-gay-marriage-insurance
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 04:12:14 PM by Pablo de Fleurs »
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power & of love and of calm, a well-balanced mind, discipline and self-control.

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2015, 04:24:02 PM »

I don't know how to love these people.  I am failing the Lord, I know, and I despair in this.  Even with those close to me, to continue loving them, I cannot stay close for my anger wants to become overwhelming.  There are days when I'd choose to distance me from myself as well, so the condition is not limited to others.

Glad to see I am not the only one annoyed by this..  I have come across multiple articles this week telling me not to hate these people.  I hate them.  I wish nothing but despair and torture upon them. Yes I know,  perhaps I too am failing the lord in this, but he told me to love people. There aren't people.  They are demons with nothing but evil in their hearts. They despise truth, they despise justice, they despise playing by the rules, they despise individualism.
I see NOTHING redeeming in them - their every deed motivated by a lust for power and an indifference toward their effect on others. I can only assume such feelings aid you in time of war... making what must be done that much easier to do.

 

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2015, 07:09:39 PM »
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

(I don't know exactly how that fits but the lefties are always telling me to explore my feelings)

 ::devil::

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2015, 07:42:59 PM »
I was trying to remember that sentence today, 'Soup, so thanks for that.  I'd paraphrase, "Be polite, be loving, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet".

Here's how I am, instinctively:  the indoor cat gets out, and when he finally lets me catch him, I want to strangle him.  Only knowing he will not allow himself to be caught by me next time allows me to restrain that impulse.  It comes from fear .... and irritation.  Not being a parent, I can only imagine the effect of seeing one's child run out into a busy street.  How people keep from throttling the child must be similar but with an element only a parent could know.  Bad things could/might happen to the kid and/or the cat if they _________, so upon retrieval, loving on it comes only at great effort.

How God puts up with us, I don't know ......
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2015, 08:41:56 PM »
Quote
How God puts up with us, I don't know ......

Sometimes he takes from us the things we love the most.

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2015, 09:15:06 PM »
I don't believe that.  I can see why you might.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2015, 09:26:39 PM »
I don't believe that.  I can see why you might.

Coincidentally, I am speaking on this for approximately 100 men @ a Men's breakfast on Saturday, August 1st - "Ezekiel, Growing Through Change".
Ezekiel was a prophet charged with delivering God's message to a rebellious Israeli nation and, though he was obedient in every command,

Quote

Ezekiel 24:16-18

16 Son of man, behold, I take away from thee the desire of thine eyes with a stroke: yet neither shalt thou mourn nor weep, neither shall thy tears run down.
17 Forbear to cry, make no mourning for the dead, bind the tire of thine head upon thee, and put on thy shoes upon thy feet, and cover not thy lips, and eat not the bread of men.
18 So I spake unto the people in the morning: and at even my wife died; and I did in the morning as I was commanded.

God took away the very person in whom Ezekiel, who must have appeared insane to the Jewish people, could confide. And, taken out of context, this seems infinitely cruel. But, the way I see it, God is less concerned with what happens to us than who we become as a result.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 09:31:14 PM by Pablo de Fleurs »
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power & of love and of calm, a well-balanced mind, discipline and self-control.

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Re: How Wide the Divide?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2015, 08:47:21 PM »
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

(I don't know exactly how that fits but the lefties are always telling me to explore my feelings)

 ::devil::

Perhaps not for everyone but l am pretty sure l like it.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.