Author Topic: Two good posts to consider  (Read 1692 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Two good posts to consider
« on: July 29, 2015, 08:30:19 AM »
Both via WRSA.

First - "The Left Must Bleed"

Some good advice in there.

And Second, some really good info here - ol' Remus - "Trading Doomsday"

Arming yourself is necessary but not enough. The bad news is, you have to go into that zone because you still have to eat. There's no workaround. You won't buy your way out of it. Survivors of civil collapse tell us gold and silver are useful at the beginning, and for bribes in the short window of time when there are authorities to bribe. Afterward precious metals are wanted in quantities you're not likely to have, by people too far away to be relevant. It's not wanted by people who are picking at the cracks in their floors for every last crumb. Barter sets in quickly. The unvarying long-term demand is for high calorie food, especially canned meat. Rice and flavorings are popular as well. MREs are good as gold. Not far behind is comfort stuff, coffee in particular, and tobacco, cigarettes mainly, traded by ones and twos. Also near the top of the list are candles and batteries in common sizes. Oddly, medical supplies, guns and ammunition aren't often mentioned.

The prudent trader doesn't go around in cammies and tactical gear, he becomes the "grey man", uninteresting, difficult to describe, easy to forget. He looks like a nobody with nothing of value. He presents himself as a guy who can get things, not as a guy who has things. He trades in small quantities as opportunities arise. His stuff is always as promised, the brand names middling-good. He prefers to meet at neutral locations and trades only a few times with the same person—the risk of ambush grows with each encounter. He may have a security partner shadowing him.

The survivalist may consider putting together a "grey man" kit. Such a kit would include plain, durable pants and shirts, in quiet browns or greens; a jacket, light but lined, with a rain hood and inside pockets, nondescript, in a subdued neutral color, with no graphics. Top it off with a plain baseball cap and a small backpack, the kind kids use for schoolbooks, in a dull color with no logo or gimmicks. Such a kit could get you in and out of a small town largely unnoticed, or a few blocks into a city and back, perhaps even past an unforeseen checkpoint.

The experiences of those who have survived the horrors and desperation of civil collapse are far more valuable than speculation by theorists and doomer novelists. Their best advice is worth keeping in mind: "don't be there when it happens." Going in, most were captivated by events and thought themselves merely observers. They stayed calm. They believed what they were told, it was just a rough spot, that the authorities would soon get things back to normal. Each new calamity seemed as bad as it could get. Then it got worse.

When they finally understood they were trapped in an unstoppable freefall, events moved faster than they could adapt. Absolute collapse overtook them. What they had—in their physical possession—was all they were going to have. There was no way out, and even if there were, they had nowhere safe to go. The lesson is to be prudent, be suspicious, trust your own senses, have a prepared bugout location and get there before self-evacuation becomes as dangerous as staying put—better a week too early than a minute too late. And stay away from crowds.


 ;)
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Two good posts to consider
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2015, 12:01:01 PM »
Barter sets in quickly. The unvarying long-term demand is for high calorie food, especially canned meat. Rice and flavorings are popular as well. MREs are good as gold. Not far behind is comfort stuff, coffee in particular, and tobacco, cigarettes mainly, traded by ones and twos. Also near the top of the list are candles and batteries in common sizes. Oddly, medical supplies, guns and ammunition aren't often mentioned.

That is because guns and ammo may not be  for sale or trade  at any price. However in Iran after the fall of the Shaw- .22 ammo was commonly used in trade, so I am not sure how accurate that statement is.

But then  these stories are always from countries with no tradition of individualism, certainly without traditions of personal firearm ownership and  in societies far less pampered and removed from the harsh realities of the world, and usually without multiple levels of government ... that may make our results vary, or it may not.  When the fed fails there will still be State, County and town governments to fall back on, and depending who is running those  your particular area may or may not  be co-ordinated (and depopulated) enough to defend itself without going through the "which gang gets control"  phase.

Large swaths of the population will lay down and die, be wiped out, or be enslaved to the gangs that will form in the areas where the local governments fail.  But the general weakness and stupidity of the average citizen will render the vast majority harmless and starving.  I agree the better option is to "get out"  but I don't think Americans will be readily accepted as refugees in most places in the world, and their governments are as likely if not more likely to become more despotic as Russia and China claim hegemony over the planet.

My key really is to try to get into a position where I am mostly trading with neighbors known to me with whom I band for mutual protection. I need to go out and just stock up on a huge crate of cigarettes. Our individualism and heavy armament will probably change how this goes a bit. Granted we aren't going to be attacking armored divisions or dealing with air supported units directly - but the terrorists overseas don't either. That is what IEDs are for. And these troops won't be in well protected "green zones"  - their families and relatives will be vulnerable to retaliation.   

War gaming this in many ways pointless. We really don't know how it will go down, other than it will be ugly. Be it just a controlled  slide into a corrupt  3rd world banana republic, or full on Mad Max social anarchy.  I suspect it will be closer to the former, with the mad max stuff happening in mostly urban areas with "yutes"-- But a mass die off will occur and we will loose the most useless people to ever walk this earth, , and then - well really there is a lot of open country, a lot of competent people hell bent on individual freedom and as things settle down , probably a lot less reason to fight and more reasons to co-operate.  The ultimate objective of removing America form the world stage will be achieved by Obama's masters, but I really doubt they bother to try and control this nation after they have done so. Too much work for way too little gain. Of course they might just scortch earth the continent and kill everyone.. but no amount of prepping will prepare you for that, and being else where means you will just be enslaved if you survive so, yeah.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Two good posts to consider
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2015, 12:28:53 PM »
Barter sets in quickly. The unvarying long-term demand is for high calorie food, especially canned meat. Rice and flavorings are popular as well. MREs are good as gold. Not far behind is comfort stuff, coffee in particular, and tobacco, cigarettes mainly, traded by ones and twos. Also near the top of the list are candles and batteries in common sizes. Oddly, medical supplies, guns and ammunition aren't often mentioned.

That is because guns and ammo may not be  for sale or trade  at any price. However in Iran after the fall of the Shaw- .22 ammo was commonly used in trade, so I am not sure how accurate that statement is.

But then  these stories are always from countries with no tradition of individualism, certainly without traditions of personal firearm ownership and  in societies far less pampered and removed from the harsh realities of the world, and usually without multiple levels of government ... that may make our results vary, or it may not.  When the fed fails there will still be State, County and town governments to fall back on, and depending who is running those  your particular area may or may not  be co-ordinated (and depopulated) enough to defend itself without going through the "which gang gets control"  phase.

Large swaths of the population will lay down and die, be wiped out, or be enslaved to the gangs that will form in the areas where the local governments fail.  But the general weakness and stupidity of the average citizen will render the vast majority harmless and starving.  I agree the better option is to "get out"  but I don't think Americans will be readily accepted as refugees in most places in the world, and their governments are as likely if not more likely to become more despotic as Russia and China claim hegemony over the planet.

My key really is to try to get into a position where I am mostly trading with neighbors known to me with whom I band for mutual protection. I need to go out and just stock up on a huge crate of cigarettes. Our individualism and heavy armament will probably change how this goes a bit. Granted we aren't going to be attacking armored divisions or dealing with air supported units directly - but the terrorists overseas don't either. That is what IEDs are for. And these troops won't be in well protected "green zones"  - their families and relatives will be vulnerable to retaliation.   

War gaming this in many ways pointless. We really don't know how it will go down, other than it will be ugly. Be it just a controlled  slide into a corrupt  3rd world banana republic, or full on Mad Max social anarchy.  I suspect it will be closer to the former, with the mad max stuff happening in mostly urban areas with "yutes"-- But a mass die off will occur and we will loose the most useless people to ever walk this earth, , and then - well really there is a lot of open country, a lot of competent people hell bent on individual freedom and as things settle down , probably a lot less reason to fight and more reasons to co-operate.  The ultimate objective of removing America form the world stage will be achieved by Obama's masters, but I really doubt they bother to try and control this nation after they have done so. Too much work for way too little gain. Of course they might just scortch earth the continent and kill everyone.. but no amount of prepping will prepare you for that, and being else where means you will just be enslaved if you survive so, yeah.

Yeah, one PITA is that the Progs made smokes so expensive...it's a pricey buy even to stash for barter...a carton of heaters is likely to run, what...$25/carton for Marlboro reds?  I think 200ct are close to your crate size, so that's $5k for smokes!  Sure, post-SHTF you probably should get 4x's or better than that in constant value, but it's still $5k out the door.  If you have it, great, but there are other items people will really need too that may be more affordable now for folks to buy.  But being as diversified in your holdings as possible is wise.  Heck I might have to score some weed...that should be worth almost as much as gold to some folks...but I don't know any dopers.  I do hope to stash a bunch of stogies, but I want them for myself!

Your note on individuality and gun ownership are spot on, I was hoping someone would catch that, it is often overlooked in such discussions.  The Progs haven't made sissies out of every man and woman in this country, thank God!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.