Author Topic: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss  (Read 22084 times)

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Online Libertas

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #80 on: January 30, 2019, 07:22:54 AM »
The question is whether the US should get involved in the internal politics of VZ.

Russia is...and the Lil' Colonel in violation of his own Putin Manifest Destiny and his countrymen are NO WHERE NEAR VENEZUELA!

So why should those self-interest-driven mongoloids get to play and we can't?  Hmmm?!

Fair is fair now!   ::oldman::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Libertas

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #81 on: January 30, 2019, 08:48:39 AM »
Heh...the shell game...and the Lil' Colonel got his filthy lucre!

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-30/maduro-says-hes-open-talks-gold-mysteriously-disappears-venezeulas-vaults

Ahhh, those altruistic Russians...can always count on consistent behavior with them.

And now Maduro is pleading for survival...



Plea?

We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #82 on: January 30, 2019, 09:30:45 AM »

   We can't even build a wall but we can control our part of the hemisphere so screw them and get that POS out of office and give the people a chance to make it and stay the hell home instead of trying to come here.

Yeah.  That.
It is irresponsible of us to even attempt to fix other nations, when we will be unable to stay that course over the long haul.
Iraq had periods where things were getting better, only to have them destroyed - deliberately - by Democrats so they can maintain their narrative.
They so need to be right, that even if GWB had left them a perfectly functioning middle eastern paradise - they would sabotage it and destroy all of those lives just so they can say "See!  it was a disaster and we should never have gone in there or helped anyone"

Nation Building takes decades of constant effort and the United States can no longer produce that constant focus, and instead any progress will be sabotaged as soon as a Democrat has the power to do so. We can't even secure our own border and for the same reason - and we will soon be involved in our own war.  The real question  then is how much are China and Russia going to mess with the United States when that occurs?

I saw some evidence that this whole Covington thing was started by a bot account and promoted by bot accounts till the MSM took the bait. It is very likely that whole event was a psy-op.  Could have been Russia, China, Democrats or even Trump himself..  who knows .. but I beleive there are people actively tryin to start our war.. and  fan the hate ( and really, it doesn't take much to hate people who call for kids to be locked in a school and burned alive because of a hat and a smile;  it doesn't take much to hate people who say "You work and toil and earn bread, and I’ll eat it"; it doesn't take much  to hate people who want to make you subservient to them based on skin color, or religion or sex. ) 

  Such a war would leave Russia and China pretty much free to do as they please, or even to take sides and participate in ours.  Is John Titor's story about Russia nuking Cities that far fetched? Would American rebels be glad of it? Or maybe they just EMP the entire nation and stand aside till we bleed out enough we can no longer defend against ground troops. Who will complain? The UN?  The EU?  Your strongly worded objection is noted. Here ...absorb more Islamic refugees

Though it would probably be cheaper to simply trade with the survivors - don't worry, the big Chinese and Russian corporations are happy to come in and rebuild and provide jobs. All your base are belong to us. No need to use tanks when you can get the survivors to work for you ( for peanuts)

Doc is probably paid to be here to fan that flame, not realizing that most of us are sold ( don't fall asleep at the trainings and  briefings Doc!)  - we hate our current government - because it isn't the government we signed up for. Of course, it seems he wants us to go a step further and hate our founders, our principles, and ourselves.. which may be part of his mission goals, but I don't see it happening here.

Online Libertas

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #83 on: January 30, 2019, 09:56:09 AM »
Well said, some people cut and run and never come back or say a nice word about the people who stay on principles because doing so may be misinterpreted as endorsing corrupt institutions...some lack courage...physical, intellectual...spiritual.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #84 on: January 30, 2019, 12:17:00 PM »

The question is whether the US should get involved in the internal politics of VZ.


Well, that is the age old problem.  In principle, yes, its none of our business. But the US is the big kid on the playground - so the others will pick fights and form alliances  to get that title. If they take it, they will ensure it can't be taken back.  We end up in proxy wars  either its because its a resource we are trying to control, or its a resource others are trying to control to our detriment.  International Politics is a law of the jungle game, not a law and order game.  Sitting where we are we can't even begin to see the field. Its like listening to the game going on behind a wooden fence and maybe taking turns at a knothole...

There is so much crap going on behind the scenes with black ops and manipulations by all parties, you simply can't know why something is being done. Imperfect information, executives briefed with what analysts THINK is important ..  So yes, in a perfect world, we put up big shields and say to hell with the rest- but we don't have shields like that yet

 And in doing that we turn our backs on people that are eating their pets to survive.  When we get involved were the bad guys when we don't get involved we don't care so damned if we do and damned if we don't.


   We can't even build a wall but we can control our part of the hemisphere so screw them and get that POS out of office and give the people a chance to make it and stay the hell home instead of trying to come here.
I used to trust the US govt on foreign affairs much more. After the USSR fell and we expanded NATO I lost a lot of trust. I have dug into Libya and Syria some and think the US govt did very bad things with very bad results plus they lie all the time. The state dept sucks at their day job. Same with Ukraine but not as bad.

I trusted the US govt on Vietnam and both Iraq wars BTW. I was busy with life and maybe too trusting.

I don't have time to dig into VZ or Iran. I just don't trust the US govt. They made things much worse in Syria, Libya, and Ukraine.  If VZ was on the US border it would be different in terms of US involvement. Bolton just said we are transfering VZ assets to some guy who was never elected and that the US should should pump their oil.
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Offline John Florida

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #85 on: January 30, 2019, 12:53:55 PM »
  The oil you're talking about was contracted to American oil companies but Chavez nationalized the oil company and sent the ones that drilled and brought the oil to market lost their equipment and investment .  They filed suit and won in court and still he didn't pay . 


   But we keep buying their oil like fools.  Now it looks like we may stop importing and let then sink or swim.
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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #86 on: January 30, 2019, 01:10:33 PM »
  The oil you're talking about was contracted to American oil companies but Chavez nationalized the oil company and sent the ones that drilled and brought the oil to market lost their equipment and investment .  They filed suit and won in court and still he didn't pay . 


   But we keep buying their oil like fools.  Now it looks like we may stop importing and let then sink or swim.



Nailed it.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #87 on: January 30, 2019, 05:08:37 PM »
  The oil you're talking about was contracted to American oil companies but Chavez nationalized the oil company and sent the ones that drilled and brought the oil to market lost their equipment and investment .  They filed suit and won in court and still he didn't pay . 


   But we keep buying their oil like fools.  Now it looks like we may stop importing and let then sink or swim.



Nailed it.
  The oil you're talking about was contracted to American oil companies but Chavez nationalized the oil company and sent the ones that drilled and brought the oil to market lost their equipment and investment .  They filed suit and won in court and still he didn't pay . 


   But we keep buying their oil like fools.  Now it looks like we may stop importing and let then sink or swim.

Who do these Venezuelan's think they are acting as if the oil in their own country is theirs?  Everyone knows the oil in their country belongs to 'merica.

Well, not everyone knows that actually.  Only neoconservative housebound, half-blind, greedy, prescription drug addled folks believe that other people's property is theirs.   BTW, this type of thinking is essentially the main reason the 'merican government is hated around the world.

Image if Mexico said California was theirs!  They have a better bogus claim to CA than Trump has to Venezuela's oil.   

Offline John Florida

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #88 on: January 30, 2019, 07:22:00 PM »
  The oil you're talking about was contracted to American oil companies but Chavez nationalized the oil company and sent the ones that drilled and brought the oil to market lost their equipment and investment .  They filed suit and won in court and still he didn't pay . 


   But we keep buying their oil like fools.  Now it looks like we may stop importing and let then sink or swim.



Nailed it.
  The oil you're talking about was contracted to American oil companies but Chavez nationalized the oil company and sent the ones that drilled and brought the oil to market lost their equipment and investment .  They filed suit and won in court and still he didn't pay . 


   But we keep buying their oil like fools.  Now it looks like we may stop importing and let then sink or swim.

Who do these Venezuelan's think they are acting as if the oil in their own country is theirs?  Everyone knows the oil in their country belongs to 'merica.

Well, not everyone knows that actually.  Only neoconservative housebound, half-blind, greedy, prescription drug addled folks believe that other people's property is theirs.   BTW, this type of thinking is essentially the main reason the 'merican government is hated around the world.

Image if Mexico said California was theirs!  They have a better bogus claim to CA than Trump has to Venezuela's oil.

 Did they have a contract for their oil? I am not the American gov. answer one question.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #89 on: January 30, 2019, 07:35:06 PM »
  Only neoconservative housebound, half-blind, greedy, prescription drug addled folks believe that other people's property is theirs.   BTW, this type of thinking is essentially the main reason the 'merican government is hated around the world.


You do know if you sign an agreement giving others rights to your oil resources in exchange for something else they aren't "yours" anymore?
Or is that commonly how you treat other people? Promise to go into business with them using their knowledge and capital and then claim it all belongs to you?

And just so we are clear.. are you suggesting that we on this forum are "neoconservative housebound, half-blind, greedy, prescription drug addled folks" who believe other people's property belongs to us? Or are you just making up a new class of strawman that has no bearing on actual people or real life so you can feel superior to it?



Where do you think your responses fall ?



 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 11:09:06 AM by Weisshaupt »

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #90 on: January 30, 2019, 09:23:35 PM »
  The oil you're talking about was contracted to American oil companies but Chavez nationalized the oil company and sent the ones that drilled and brought the oil to market lost their equipment and investment .  They filed suit and won in court and still he didn't pay . 


   But we keep buying their oil like fools.  Now it looks like we may stop importing and let then sink or swim.



Nailed it.
  The oil you're talking about was contracted to American oil companies but Chavez nationalized the oil company and sent the ones that drilled and brought the oil to market lost their equipment and investment .  They filed suit and won in court and still he didn't pay . 


   But we keep buying their oil like fools.  Now it looks like we may stop importing and let then sink or swim.

Who do these Venezuelan's think they are acting as if the oil in their own country is theirs?  Everyone knows the oil in their country belongs to 'merica.

Well, not everyone knows that actually.  Only neoconservative housebound, half-blind, greedy, prescription drug addled folks believe that other people's property is theirs.   BTW, this type of thinking is essentially the main reason the 'merican government is hated around the world.

Image if Mexico said California was theirs!  They have a better bogus claim to CA than Trump has to Venezuela's oil.

Spell America that way again and I will ban your can right outta here. Clear?
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Online Libertas

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #91 on: January 31, 2019, 07:32:50 AM »
I wonder how much Putin is paying his troll?  And is it by days actively harassing people least likely to believe anything it regurgitates?

What a way to live.  If I actually gave a damn I might have sympathy for such a creature, as it is...

Meh

See this?

Look like the DeepState, Coats, Putin, Iran & Doc all on the same Obama talking points...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/01/oops-iran-announces-transfer-of-uranium-yellowcake-day-after-dni-director-dan-coats-refutes-trump-insists-iran-is-not-pursuing-nukes/

And their pal Chuck U Schumer is calling for another coup attempt...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/01/schumer-urges-intelligence-community-leaders-to-stage-an-intervention-with-president-trump/

Yeah...enemies are all too easy to identify today, their friends being a huge dead giveaway...
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 08:04:41 AM by Libertas »
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline John Florida

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #92 on: January 31, 2019, 10:43:55 AM »
  Listen asswipe the American Gov. didn't contract the oil you can't be this stupid. It was a contract between their government and a private company that held up their end of the contact.   The private company filed suit and won and still got stiffed by Venezuela and the American Gov. still allowed oil trade with Venezuela and still allowed it NOW and only NOW has the Gov. gotten involved in this and rightfully so to block their damned oil from coming in.

  And you want to blame Trump for their crimes?? 
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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2019, 01:23:34 PM »
Ban me now. 

Offline Weisshaupt

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Online patentlymn

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #95 on: January 31, 2019, 02:38:14 PM »

BTW I don't kjnow much about VZ. I do not have time to learn. If I wanted to learn I would seek out different sources.  I do not trust the US govt or the MSM. I believe everything bad about Maduro because it rings true and is not hard to believe.  Sounds like a typical socialist in Latin America. I have no problem believing that the VZ govt seized foreign assets.

I can see where neighboring countries would want to intervene because the crap is spilling outside of VZ borders.  IMO the US state dept has destabilized too much of the world already. I don't want them to make things worse.  I hope the VZ military takes over for a while when things get even worse.

One week after the MSM started talking abot the 'Russian collusion' I was surprised they were still talking about it. They still are years later. They are nuts.

I like doc because he brings a different point of view.  I don't have to buy into all of it.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #96 on: January 31, 2019, 04:54:57 PM »

BTW I don't kjnow much about VZ. I do not have time to learn. If I wanted to learn I would seek out different sources.  I do not trust the US govt or the MSM. I believe everything bad about Maduro because it rings true and is not hard to believe.  Sounds like a typical socialist in Latin America. I have no problem believing that the VZ govt seized foreign assets.

I can see where neighboring countries would want to intervene because the crap is spilling outside of VZ borders.  IMO the US state dept has destabilized too much of the world already. I don't want them to make things worse.  I hope the VZ military takes over for a while when things get even worse.

One week after the MSM started talking abot the 'Russian collusion' I was surprised they were still talking about it. They still are years later. They are nuts.

I like doc because he brings a different point of view.  I don't have to buy into all of it.

If Doc wanted to discuss, provide evidence, and engage in genuine and sincere debate, I suspect his point of view would be more appreciated. Instead he ignores the challenges to his arguments, calls names, and generally seems to be here to America bash first, and to discuss issues seriously second, if at all.  You are in some ways echoing his point of view, but no one has much to say back because you offer it as genuine sentiment, provided links to watch and are consistent in supporting your view, and we see the truth in it.. 

I don't think anyone here is saying America was always right in every action and in every place, and in every occasion we have interacted with a foreign government  - nor do I think anyone here is suggesting that our government can be trusted. But we also don't have the full picture, CIA briefings  or classified information. World politics  is a law of the jungle game - and yes, smaller powers are used and abused by larger powers as pawns. I don't blame any smaller nation for resenting American ( or Russian, or Chinese, or European....)  interference in their affairs or in the affairs of their neighbors  ( especially when  they bear the brunt  of the consequences) 

International politics  a world of crappy choices, and the right or moral choice may simply not be on the table , or it is the the imperfect information in the briefings make it seem it isn't,  or the perception of risk pushes toward immoral actions to mitigate disaster.  But I think we can safely assume we are instigating immoral actions to protect our perceived interests in the world all of the time, and that the other powers are doing the same. I have talked personally to quite a few special forces and ex-special forces men and women who can confirm this.  They always say "I can't tell you what was done, but you don't know half of the sh*t that is going on in the world, and  its probably best you don't." And most of the time the special forces executing such missions don't have the big picture either. There is no accountability , and humans in that environment and under such constraints eventually abuse their power in they ways they can justify to themselves.  So yes, the United States does unfair, immoral and bad sh*t overseas, and nations that take offense.. are probably doing the same and playing this faux veneer of international community to their best advantage in the media and to the masses. 

I certainly wouldn't support a US Military adventure in Venezuela given what I know, nor do I even think Sanctions are a very good idea, but to some degree the Russian and Chinese involvement are pushing those hands. Doc is right that the petro-dollar is what is keeping the US afloat, and  therefore controlling trade in oil and the currency paid for it  is key to keeping that going.  It is what allows the United States to export much of the inflation it is creating via borrowing (and another reason for the ill will.  The United States has abused its position with the reserve currency and therefore deserves to loose it to other hands)

Maybe China or Russia will provide a better alternative in time, or maybe it all fails at once. It will be easier for everyone if they succeed in setting up an alternate global trade system  before the US Collapse, but I am sure the "kick the can" politicians in the United States don't see it that way.  What is certain is that there are forces trying to kill Western Civilization and most of all , its emphasis on the individual,  and those forces have infiltrated every level of our society and, in fact, most societies in general.

Offline John Florida

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #97 on: January 31, 2019, 04:56:20 PM »
Ban me now.

  Go eff yourself ! as far as I'm concerned you're not worth the time or effort  to try and reason with. Born an idiot and die an idiot.  Somebody drop a hammer please.
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #98 on: January 31, 2019, 05:07:48 PM »
Not being an American is an off-sides foul, good for 5 yards.
Using the disparaging "'merica" - especially after being warned by a ref is a loss of goal and 10 yard penalty.
Trolling has flags down all across the field.

Game forfeited.

Offline John Florida

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Re: Venezuela goes deeper into the hyperinflation abyss
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2019, 05:13:50 PM »

BTW I don't kjnow much about VZ. I do not have time to learn. If I wanted to learn I would seek out different sources.  I do not trust the US govt or the MSM. I believe everything bad about Maduro because it rings true and is not hard to believe.  Sounds like a typical socialist in Latin America. I have no problem believing that the VZ govt seized foreign assets.

I can see where neighboring countries would want to intervene because the crap is spilling outside of VZ borders.  IMO the US state dept has destabilized too much of the world already. I don't want them to make things worse.  I hope the VZ military takes over for a while when things get even worse.

One week after the MSM started talking abot the 'Russian collusion' I was surprised they were still talking about it. They still are years later. They are nuts.

I like doc because he brings a different point of view.  I don't have to buy into all of it.


  Just to give you a short story on VZ.  Chavez took over an started just taking over everything including news papers and TV stations so that the only info the people got was from him. He started price fixing food to the point that it had to be sold for less that it cost to grow so guess what growers stopped growing food.

  Importers could not import because they went broke jobs went out the window and he nationalized the oil fields and started them circling the old crapper.    Thankfully he died from cancer and his right hand man took over and he decided to price fix Milk the farmers started exporting it to other countries where they could make a buck.   


   He came back and threatened them with taking their farms if they exported their Milk  They responded by killing all their cows and that ended Milk.

  No food no jobs oil exports sinking and people starving inflation that's out in orbit the place is a disaster and the people starving to the point where you can't find a dog or cat around.    Wonder where they went?

  Maduro packing on the pounds his people have lost an average of 20 pounds and he says they should thank him for making them healthier.   And Doc is calling us the criminals??   Doc is an ass! Gives no proof and answers no questions.

  He just needs to go! he's just a waste of time and air and FOS.
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