Author Topic: Fiorina, yes or no  (Read 5111 times)

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Offline whimsicalmamapig

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Fiorina, yes or no
« on: September 25, 2015, 08:37:47 PM »
Just a question: is all the angst against her coming from the conservatives or just those establishment types who also want to rid the race of trump.

what is the feeling here, I keep reading viscious attacks from those who say she is not conservative enough but I also think there is a concerted effort to remove her by the jeb factions?
Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2015, 09:02:42 PM »
I'm so fatigued of it all. So jaded and cynical. Every daggum politician and wannabe politician seems to have a history of non-conservative positions and philosophies untethered from the constitution - which should not just be their primary concern, but their ONLY concern.

We can judge these people on their past positions, and weigh that against their current rhetoric. It's all we can do. Where current rhetoric and past positions differ, we have to make a judgment as to whether we believe them now, or think they're pandering.

I felt like Fiorina's plea for the character of our nation being defined by what we do now with Planned Parenthood was genuine and heartfelt. I like her command of foreign policy. I like her wit. I like her articulation. She's obviously studied what she needs to know to run for president, and she knows who her audience is.

I can see myself casting a vote for her if she somehow gets the nomination. I'd still rather vote for Ted Cruz. He's in love with the constitution and the country, and he's as smart as they come.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2015, 09:38:27 PM »
Look at her record at HP and decide if you think she's executive material

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2015, 10:00:43 PM »
I'm so fatigued of it all. So jaded and cynical. Every daggum politician and wannabe politician seems to have a history of non-conservative positions and philosophies untethered from the constitution - which should not just be their primary concern, but their ONLY concern.

^^^ THAT ^^^^
 Fiorina apparently  supported the  individual mandate in Obamacare.  So. Yeah. 

I might vote for her just as being "anti establishment" enough - but come on - she has the same connections the the elite  and power mad as Trump has. She MIGHT have actual principals, or not. Its hard to really say.  There is no White horse in the race. There is no one can save you. Now say it.  Now deal with that reality and figure out what your next steps are.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 10:30:38 PM by Weisshaupt »

Offline whimsicalmamapig

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2015, 10:23:40 PM »
thanks for the feedback, it is pretty much how I feel, especially the part about no white knight on the horizon.
Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2015, 10:34:50 PM »
Re; her support for an individual mandate, for what it's worth, she's saying she never supported the Obamacare mandate, and was supportive of the Heritage Foundation's plan of a mandate for catastrophic coverage in order to prevent taxpayer funding of uninsured people going to the emergency room for their primary medical care.

It's a mandate, and a mandate to buy insurance is not related to liberty - but if she's telling the truth (seems very plausible), she never supported the Obamacare mandate. Which means it's being spun by the Bushies to knock her back down.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline whimsicalmamapig

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2015, 10:40:50 PM »
I have been spending the evening on the NR site and many a poster there is adament about torpedoing her. It is an attack the rings more of a lefty troll attack in flavor and style.

I am just trying to decide if it is being motivated by really ideologically pure conservatives or bushies in disguise as the attacks are all on her lack of conservative chops.

She seems to have more spine than most others on the stage but I am afraid they are engaging in the circular firing squad already which means the only ones left will be the 2 with the most money, jeb and trump.
Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2015, 10:53:29 PM »
thanks for the feedback, it is pretty much how I feel, especially the part about no white knight on the horizon.

We really, really are past the point of no return financially. Even the most perfect White Horse candidate could not stop this train wreck now.
If you cut the spending that is killing us ( welfare/ss/ssi)  then you get rampaging EBT mobs burning and looting. If you keep kicking the can,  the whole thing fials as the foreign  dollars flood home.  maybe there is a tight-rope middle ground there - somehow, that keeps confidence that world debts will be paid and pays off enough f the ferals that complete civil chaos doesn't erupt, but I just don't see it.  The numbers are way too big.  30-80 Trillion in unfunded liabilities. 200 Trillion Credit default swaps  overhang. And we start 18 Trillion in debt.   Hauser's Law ( really a statistical truth)  shows that the Fed just can't collect more and 18-22 %  of GDP.  If that remains true,  we would need 6-8% GDP growth for 10-20 years.  That hasn't ever happened before. As such, it would be kind of silly to rely upon it happening now.

The only question now is - are you are of the "Let it Burn " crowd.  I am - I think it  better it collapse sooner, as it makes it harder to get a police state fully in place ( if your money is worthless how do you pay the thugs?)  or if you would rather a few more years of kick the can .. giving them even more time in which to entrench themselves and pay people who will be willing to confiscate firearms, property  and worse.

Let. It. Burn.  Hillary 2016!




Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2015, 10:56:10 PM »

She seems to have more spine than most others on the stage but I am afraid they are engaging in the circular firing squad already which means the only ones left will be the 2 with the most money, Jeb and Trump.

Yes and yes. I like her spine. It makes me think she beleives in something - even if it isn't 100% ideologically pure.
I would rather see her get the nomination than either Trump or Bush. I might even vote for her, where I won't for Bush or Trump. But she has ZERO chance of winning the nomination.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2015, 10:58:24 PM »
Re; her support for an individual mandate, for what it's worth, she's saying she never supported the Obamacare mandate, and was supportive of the Heritage Foundation's plan of a mandate for catastrophic coverage in order to prevent taxpayer funding of uninsured people going to the emergency room for their primary medical care.
Correction taken.  She supported using government power to force people to buy a product.  That is ALSO just as unconstitutional and wrong as the Obamacare mandate. It might be a little more swallow able since catastrophic at least makes some rational sense -- but no mandate is acceptable to me in this category. You want people to stop using the emergency room, then don't make it mandatory by law  to treat people who can't pay in emergency rooms.

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2015, 10:46:33 AM »
I've been trying not to bash any of the candidates - even Jeb! ;')

Yes, there has been a circular firing squad in action - it's the pubbie way. We bash and trash until we eliminate every decent candidate and are left obliged to vote for the establishment guy.

So in that regard I guess I am of the "let it burn" persuasion. I am determined not to endorse or reward incompetence or embrace leftist standards by casting a vote for anyone except a conservative. Call it a temper tantrum, call it selfish, call it what you like - I'm done.

Offline whimsicalmamapig

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2015, 10:54:30 AM »
thank you all for your input. I have been tending towards the national high colonic cure for some time myself. I honestly do not see a legistlative cure for where we are at this point. I just hope, at my age, that I can survive the journey and see the cleansing.

In the event that we are not yet up to that rebellion stage, I think Fiorina is the closest we are going to get to a margaret thatcher type as far as spine, I  just hope she is a committed to change as her campaign wants us to think.
Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

Offline AlanS

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2015, 11:36:26 AM »
So in that regard I guess I am of the "let it burn" persuasion. I am determined not to endorse or reward incompetence or embrace leftist standards by casting a vote for anyone except a conservative. Call it a temper tantrum, call it selfish, call it what you like - I'm done.

I see you and I are in the same boat.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

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Offline Predator Don

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2015, 12:58:20 PM »
I don't think there is a candidate alive who doesn't think some sort of gov't mandate isn't part of "the cure". For Fiorina to call herself "conservative" but still recommend a "mandate" is commonplace. The type of candidate I want doesn't exist today.

I'm of the "let it burn" crowd....but, if the right candidate existed, who would SEVERLY cut the freebies, end the Dept of Energy, dept of education, give back states rights, etc......I could learn to live with feral beasts burning down their neighborhoods, because in each "let it burn" scenario, the feral beasts will burn things.
I'm not always engulfed in scandals, but when I am, I make sure I blame others.

Offline warpmine

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2015, 01:03:19 PM »
Look at her record at HP and decide if you think she's executive material
She's definitely Congressional material as she  lies with the best of them but I wanted something that had a moral compass for my President.

She lied as CEO of HP and the job she had before that so no not even if Hitlary was the Dem nominee.
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Offline warpmine

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2015, 01:10:52 PM »
thank you all for your input. I have been tending towards the national high colonic cure for some time myself. I honestly do not see a legistlative cure for where we are at this point. I just hope, at my age, that I can survive the journey and see the cleansing.

In the event that we are not yet up to that rebellion stage, I think Fiorina is the closest we are going to get to a margaret thatcher type as far as spine, I  just hope she is a committed to change as her campaign wants us to think.
Not to bash you but "spine" as in she has one, really? Give me a break, she's a pandering pos like Bush, Kasich, Ryan, Huck, etc....
Cruz or Revolution though The Donald makes it fun again. He's no conservative but he's no progtard either.
Remember, four boxes keep us free:
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2015, 01:11:51 PM »
So in that regard I guess I am of the "let it burn" persuasion. I am determined not to endorse or reward incompetence or embrace leftist standards by casting a vote for anyone except a conservative. Call it a temper tantrum, call it selfish, call it what you like - I'm done.

I see you and I are in the same boat.

I don't know how big that boat is....but it sure has a lot of passengers!

Offline whimsicalmamapig

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2015, 01:41:41 PM »
Not to bash you but "spine" as in she has one, really? Give me a break, she's a pandering pos like Bush, Kasich, Ryan, Huck, etc....
Cruz or Revolution though The Donald makes it fun again. He's no conservative but he's no progtard either.

I am beginning to see Trump as the republican version of obama. He orates to a crowd, telling them what they want to hear in vague enough terms to allow them to "fill in the details" in their own minds. He offers nothing in the way of concrete plans as to how to make this happen, just sunshine and everything will be better when I am in power. Haven't we been there already. I am not opposed to his message but he is not leadership material. Cruz could never get elected but he would make and excellent AG followed by a seat as supreme court justice, he is an awful politician.
Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

Offline warpmine

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2015, 03:40:54 PM »
Not to bash you but "spine" as in she has one, really? Give me a break, she's a pandering pos like Bush, Kasich, Ryan, Huck, etc....
Cruz or Revolution though The Donald makes it fun again. He's no conservative but he's no progtard either.

I am beginning to see Trump as the republican version of obama. He orates to a crowd, telling them what they want to hear in vague enough terms to allow them to "fill in the details" in their own minds. He offers nothing in the way of concrete plans as to how to make this happen, just sunshine and everything will be better when I am in power. Haven't we been there already. I am not opposed to his message but he is not leadership material. Cruz could never get elected but he would make and excellent AG followed by a seat as supreme court justice, he is an awful politician.
Honestly, I couldn't tell them either becasue then they would understand just how many would be kicked to the curb, bled dry and or deported.LOL
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Fiorina, yes or no
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2015, 10:07:32 PM »
Not to bash you but "spine" as in she has one, really? Give me a break, she's a pandering pos like Bush, Kasich, Ryan, Huck, etc....
Cruz or Revolution though The Donald makes it fun again. He's no conservative but he's no progtard either.

Perhaps spine isn't the right word. She appears to have a personal agenda that isn't 100%  out of whack with some of the things that SHOULD happen, if one is inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt (but I understand perfectly if there are those who are not)  She has no track record as a politician,  and a mixed record as CEO - meaning  yes she did accomplish some things, and others didn't work out quite so well.  I don't get the feeling she is entirely in it for her, but that is entirely subjective on my part.  She talks a good game.. but that's about it.  I still like Carson, be he also has no track record -- and of course the only politician who had a track record we knew -and who showed the balls to fight for us and our principals - Walker - is already out.

But we all knew that there would be no acceptable candidate when the music stopped, nor would there be a fair election if we did have one.  Let the Democrats preside over the burning nation.  Seriously - when it all goes to hell and they are finally using the govt. repair kits,  who do you want to see hanging there? Let the Dems own the mess they created.. let them accelerate the process, and deprive them of the time they need to really get a police state in place (cashless society, complete monitoring of every conversation and every movement of each person,  high tech military automata (mosquito size drone, flies into "insurgent's" house and injects cyanide) We really aren't that far from being there already, and its entirely possible that skunkworks already have this crap developed. . We need this started sooner rather than later and I can't think of a better way than giving the Dems the rope to hang themselves. We certainly can't stop it. We can only pick the form of the destroyer.  If you think a eGOP is harmless  think staypuff marshmallow man. Both candidates will hurt you. Count on it. Now which one is likely to cause enough damage fast enough to get this thing moving?