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Mormons and the LDS Church

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Weisshaupt:

In suggesting that if you want access to canning machine you can approach Mormons in your area..  I found I had more to say about my experience so far with Mormons and investigating their  religion.  I haven't personally joined the church yet, but my wife has.  We have had missionaries coming to teach in our home for about 6 months now ( average of once every two weeks for an hour or so) and we have been friends with a Mormon family in  town since my daughter met theirs in school.  Both my wife and I are introverts, so if we say we like you and have you in our home, its because we actually like you and are comfortable around you.  That process was extraordinarily fast with this family, and has continued to be with the other Mormons we have met through them. Its a group of people that we can fit with more the most part (Michelle and I have never felt we fit or belonged anywhere- so call this a best fit perhaps?)  The Mormon friends  were never really pushy about joining, and really just offered information when asked. ( They let missionaries do the pushing, and if you can't handle a 18 year old boy, well, get over it) . But by and large I already act Mormon.. Missionaries call me a dry ( un-Baptisted) Mormon.

We ended up attending activities because my Daughter would want to be involved with theirs . My daughter participated in a Heritage Celebration honoring the new Fort Collins Temple (it was a massive dance routine for the most part), and went to a girls camp where she spent  all week firing a .22 ( and loved it) Mormon youth activities tend to sway towards the sort of "wholesome" things that were common in the 50s. They push as may of the boys to become Eagle Scouts as they can ( but may end up starting their own Scouting organization if PC culture continues to worm its way in to BSA)  The Church issued an unapologetic statement about Gay Marriage in the 90's ( unapologetic statement about Gay Marriage in the 90's)  and if the Federal government ever decides to dictate that Churches must perform Gay weddings there is a very high likelihood that the Mormons will go to war over it. ( Unlike the Catholic Church led by the anti-pope)  They also encourage members to engage in "Family Home Evening" which is really just getting the family together with no TV, playing games, reading some scripture , and making sure the family is the central unit of your life.

Of all of the Churches I have investigated in my lifetime, the Mormons, in my unscientific and biased survey, seem to be the best at practicing what they preach. But then I am told there is a huge difference between Mormons in Utah, and Mormons elsewhere ( Power corrupts)  I saw a little bit of that when I traveled for business- Mormons in Uta were polite, but standoffish, and apparently with other Mormons are more likely to take that "Holier Than Thou" scolding stance  over infractions of rules ( other wise known as culture guarding)

Also keep  in mind, I  tend to look at churches as tools: methods of establishing and maintaining a culture and community of like minded individuals. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsmyzC4AkFQ) So I am one of those apostate individuals that Ann Barnhardt would accuse of not "believing any of that crap" - and really that is most of my basis for being reluctant to join the Mormons.. I would be happy to partake in the culture and ethics preached, but can't genuinely say I believe the Book of Mormon to be True.  I do believe there is truth to be found in the Book of Mormon, but I will tell you the same thing about Lord of the Rings.

SO things I like socially and culturally:
1)  Mormons Place a huge emphasis on Family, Preparedness, and self-sufficiency.  - This includes food storage, individual skill building (  the church offers classes on entrepreneurship, running your own business and other skills that  promote self-sufficiency. 
2)  Mormons place a lot of effort into the service of others - and in my experience genuinely often  back that up with action ( Another reason I am reluctant to join - I already have too much to do and I already engage with far too many people for my liking)
3)  Mormons don't have "Paid" Clergy.  Its not strictly true of course, but most local positions are volunteer ( the Mormon's denote this a "Calling")  and rotate around.  The Higher officials are paid in that they can receive  reimbursement for expenses - including cars, house payments, food and so on, but someone else in the church has to sign that check. Not perfect as far as anti-corruption incentives go, but better than what most churches provide. .
4) The Church runs its investments such that there is an emphasis on giving the Fed as little money as possible, and they have methods - like tithing in stock, that help that along.
5) The Church runs its own welfare system and that system is administered as a hierarchy- with most money collected being used within the Ward in which it is collected, with the ability to ask for more within the hierarchy if needed. The Media tends to under-report Mormon activity in disaster releif, but they tend to be there before the Red Cross and able to do more once there.
6) The Church is very egalitarian in structure - with  all men holding the powers of the priesthood and being allowed to perform baptisms, bless the sacrament, and so forth. There is no set preacher, and different members are asked to speak on different topics during the Sacrament Meeting ( and sacrement is offered every Sunday)
7) Mormons basically subscribe to the Bach/Illusions  everything is "learning or fun" philosophy. Everything is about self-improvement - moving toward a better you physically, morally and spiritually.

Theologically, I found a lot to like, but these is where you get into the weeds   I like the idea that Mormons believe God didn't stop talking to us 2000 years ago, and that the church basically has the power to add new doctrine to keep up with changing times, but to do that, they have to appoint imperfect humans. Mormons believe that Jesus came to Joseph Smith and through him re-established the authentic Authority of Jesus Christ  in a body of men, and that Christ spoke through him and subsequently through the current Prophet of the church ( The look of adoration for this man at the Fort Collins celebration had me wondering where they were passing out the cool-aid. It was scary and cultish.  )  I see the huge potential for abuse in this, and as you get into the history of he church and its flirtations with polygamy, you could argue that Joesph Smith himself abused the power - but it was also a method of taking care of women and children whose Father had died on the exodus west - or at the hands of persecution - which happened a lot - Joseph Smith was executed by a Mob while in a Jail cell) .  The church ( partly as a condition of Utah becoming a State)  "clarified" this doctrine ( changing times)  and it is no longer part of what is taught. ,, and as far as I can tell morphed into this "Temple Sealing " ritual, where you can "bind " your family ( both living and dead)  into the faith and offer salvation posthumously (Mormons typically find this a huge selling point. Not so persuasive with me - but then  I typically  hear "eternal life" and think " Why would I want to live forever? Longer perhaps, but forever? ") 

I don't like:

1) Everyone is an extrovert or an introvert faking it
2) The emphasis on the Book of Mormon being True in the factual historical sense.
3) The emphasis on Temple Ritual ( different than church) /Family Sealing ( Why would I want to ever see my mother again? I don't want to see her now and she is alive. )
4) Your duties are basically Military "Volunteer" - so  someone else gives you your "calling" - you don't necessarily pick it yourself . You can decline of course, but with social ramifications. ( which of course vary from Ward to ward)

However, for the most part the message does not differ a whole lot from  other Christian sects.  Jesue Christ dies for your sins. You must repent to take part in salvation.  The Book of Mormon is simply  quoted as another testament of God's word in conjunction with the Bible,  and for the most part its consistent and not in conflict ( at least no more than the Bible is with itself- and if you think there are no such conflicts, please, let's agree to disagree, and I'll concede right now you are more spiritually advanced and knowledgeable on the topic because you most probably are. )  Joseph Smith is held to be on par with Luke, John or Paul, and is not worshiped in his own right, and what  Joseph Smith and subsequent prophets have added, while considered as scripture,  really  tends to be commentary or further expansion on material already present in the Bible .. and not diversionary from it.

 The book of Mormon is basically tells the same story over and over.. A group of people have faith in God and follow his teachings and begin to prosper, then their prosperity makes them greedy and lazy  and they become corrupt, and their civilization undergoes a war and falls. Rinse. Repeat.  There is more of an emphasis on individualism, self-reliance and family in the tales , but basically, there was not a lot to find offensive.  Christ himself doesn't show up till the very, very end, spends three days and basically just gives the sermon on the mount again. Nothing new or controversial there. These stories came on gold plats that Joseph Smith was purportedly allowed to find and translate via Holy intervention.

Most of the Mormon stuff comes in the Doctrines and Covenants which are the revelations of the Mormon prophets- which is where the no Tea or Coffee thing originates as well as a number of other uniquely Mormon rituals and restrictions ( like holy underwear - which probably started as a means of enforcing modesty...) . . this part I am still reading and digesting, but I think there was usually a cultural or social purpose behind such writings, and usually its not a bad or harmful one.

They do ask a 10%  tithe, and every one of them attests that once you do it, money matters ( for them)  seem to always work out ( largely because the Church will write you a check for your mortgage if you loose your job and so forth.. )  Its an informal welfare system, and some wards are stingier than others and mileage may vary ....

But so far I am thinking-- if I am going to join a clan I could probably do worse.

Pandora:
Thank you for the information; interesting.

Weisshaupt, if you and yours are comfortable with these folks as your clan, more power to you.

AlanS:
I've worked around a few of them. Although we never got around to having a conversation of religion (in fact, unless asked, you'd never know they were anything but a Christian), the rest of your assumption seems to match what I know of them.

Libertas:
They are hard working family-oriented people...the mob hired them in all professions needed where there was a need to eliminate the chance of graft when the strip was built...which says more about their own folks more than others in my mind...and I've known a few over the years and have no cause for concern in working with them or conducting business and enjoying casual civility with them...

That being said, I do have to look at them as cultish what with that bizzare lost tribe of Israel and magical plates in the forest et al...none of which has ever been proven...but a benign cult as far as cults go.

I think in the cult realm the Satanic minions of Mohammad rank worst, followed closely by Proglodytes, Mansonites, Scientology, etc etc...Mormons probably way at the end...

Heck, the apostate Christian churches like Episcopalians, that crap Obama sat ass in...as way worse than the Mormons!

Alphabet Soup:
I'm told that my G-Grandfather was an elder in the church. Apparently none of it wore off onto me...

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