Author Topic: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks  (Read 272939 times)

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Offline benb61

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1060 on: December 14, 2020, 10:20:42 AM »
They didn't even comment on what Texas was suing for.  Just the strawman of Texas trying to demand states do it their way.

Oh Texas has no standing to sue another state -- when it changes the outcome of an election.

http://adaptivecurmudgeon.com/2020/12/11/sh*t-continues-to-get-real/

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Online Pandora

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1062 on: December 14, 2020, 11:15:58 AM »
They didn't even comment on what Texas was suing for.  Just the strawman of Texas trying to demand states do it their way.

Oh Texas has no standing to sue another state -- when it changes the outcome of an election.

http://adaptivecurmudgeon.com/2020/12/11/sh*t-continues-to-get-real/

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I get a page can not be found error.

You've got to remove the asterisk in "sh i t" in the link for it to work.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1063 on: December 14, 2020, 11:47:58 AM »
https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/news-nation/loud-arguments-in-us-supreme-court-chambers-over-texas-lawsuit-court-intimidated

From covertconserative site by pat

Black robed cabalists...

Good thing I no longer GAFF or recognize illegitimate authority...

They can ignore everything and ignore precedent...but they cannot ignore their complicity in ending a Constitutional Republic...I sure hope I live long enough to see Dread Traitor Roberts and a host of other traitors reaping what they sowed...

 ::praying::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline John Florida

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Online Pandora

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1065 on: December 14, 2020, 08:39:25 PM »
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1066 on: December 15, 2020, 07:54:00 AM »
A shadow of the foolish optimist in me thinks this happened because Barr was not on board with pending actions that the last Constitutional American President has in store...and while it would be good to see pardons of the innocent and pardons of those who threatened the DeepState and doing whatever can be done to dick with the coming illegitimate regime...well, whatever...whatever happens happens...

Foolish people keep falling back on GA Senate races...like round two of fraud will be better than round one...or faithless electors in January...like there is enough...as backstops.  No, dummy...you are the backstop!

We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline John Florida

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1067 on: December 15, 2020, 11:03:23 AM »
  We all know what they did to win the WH imagine what they will do the get control of the Senate.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1068 on: December 15, 2020, 11:51:07 AM »
https://www.weaselzippers.us/460829-breaking-gop-electors-barred-from-voting-in-michigan-by-state-police/

It's sh*t like this that indicates living under tyrants is occurring and about to get exponentially worse...

Plan accordingly...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1069 on: December 16, 2020, 08:53:14 AM »
Another one of those odd little moments when I muse something half awake half asleep and later read something along the same lines...

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/common-sense-solution

Comes to ZH via a Claremnont link, Trenchard's post has many positive elements and I was musing the local level issue in my dream state...not for the first time, but I couldn't remember discussing the topic recently.  Just like the map of recent elections...the DemCom's are thick in the urban hives...and now they've turned those hives into counterfeit ballot bastions...so the time is long past due their powerbase is rendered pointless.  Counties, townships...neighbors...any who are interested in firewalling from the DemCom hives is a good idea.  The more the resistance, the better.  Liberty sanctuaries, Free America zones, generate all the positive descriptors to declare our independence from despots.  I favor an all of the above approach.

Let Freedom Ring.

The Torch of Liberty will always burn bright as long as one patriot holds it up.

We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Pandora

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1070 on: December 16, 2020, 09:25:36 AM »
I'd love to see it happen.  The Left will never peacefully allow it.  Therefore ............
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline Libertas

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1071 on: December 16, 2020, 12:15:46 PM »
Yes.  I am beyond caring what those traitors want...

See this?

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/julian-assange-formally-requested-pardon-president-donald-trump/

Sure, pardon all whistleblowers and victims of a rogue DeepState...eff 'em every way possible.  Bottom line, why not?

And this?



"Historical moment in the Oval - will share what it was, one of these days, when I can..."-Daniel Scavino, Jr., White House Deputy Chief of Staff for Communications and Director of Social Media

I do so like a mystery.  Note in the link about it being earlier in year due to leaves on trees, may be Pence sitting there center-right, not sure of the others.  Well, I guess we'll find out what we find out...the tense used seems to indicate it is nothing impacting the here and now...hope it isn't merely an attention-seeking nothingburger...but it is where I'd place my bet.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Pandora

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1072 on: December 16, 2020, 12:58:45 PM »
As though things aren't tense enough already, Scavino has to add to it.   ::saywhat::

In another thought, I don't like Trump sitting there with his back to the windows.  Call me untrusting, my situational awareness just kicks in.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online patentlymn

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1073 on: December 16, 2020, 11:16:02 PM »
The Soap Box

The Ballot Box

The Jury Box<———you are here

The Cartridge Box<———you are here - fire at will

You beat me to it.
The elections are corrupted and the courts will not act.
That leaves rule 303.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online patentlymn

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1074 on: December 16, 2020, 11:19:22 PM »
This is from the very recent WI Sup Ct decision. I am not expert in laches etc
IMO there is the valid point that people casting votes in ways that violated state law might have cast them in person/whatever had they known they might not be counted.

I think the opinion is worth reading. WI has very strict voting statutes but so what?

IMO the conclusion of the dissent states the issues clearly.
The WEC is a state admin agency. They basically said it is OK to violate state statutes as we said it was OK. It is clear that state statutes were violated and the statutes also said that votes in violation of those statutes may not be counted.

The majority said that people relied on the erroneous WEC advice and Trump waited too long.

I wonder. If Trump sued before the election would he have standing? At that point FC would say they had no evidence of harm and he would be right. Zero evidence. It was before the election. Maybe not enough evidence of imminent harm. Possible harm yes. Speculative harm. 

If people sued about the WEC rules for the next election would they have standing???
Again I am no expert.  The jury box, the ballot box, and the cartridge box, as someone wrote.

I think the dissent is a little more detailed and tighter.
If the dissent won it would not overturn the presidential election but at least it would provide a reason for the WEC going forward to not tell people to ignore the statutes next time. As of right now the WEC has no reason not to do the same next time.

https://www.wicourts.gov/sc/opinion/DisplayDocument.pdf?content=pdf&seqNo=315395

 Here, the Campaign unreasonably delayed with respect to
all three categories of challenged ballots.

Waiting until after an
election to challenge the sufficiency of a form application in use
statewide for at least a decade is plainly unreasonable.

The Campaign offers no reason for waiting years [since 2016]
to challenge this approach, much less after this election. None
exists.

The Campaign now asks us to determine that all 17,271
absentee ballots collected during the "Democracy in the Park"
events were illegally cast. Once again, when the events were
announced, the Campaign could have challenged its legality. It
did not. Instead, the Campaign waited until after the election——
after municipal officials, the other candidates, and thousands of
voters relied on the representations of their election officials
that these events complied with the law. The Campaign offers no
justification for this delay; it is patently unreasonable. [I think this was likely announced late 2020. The court does not state the date.]

Rather
than raise its challenges in the weeks, months, or even years
prior, the Campaign waited until after the votes were cast. Such
delay in light of these specific challenges is unreasonable.

[size=150] dissent[/size]. BTW I think some of the procedures were very recently decided but I may be wrong.

Citing the WI statute.
Notwithstanding s. 5.01, with respect to matters
relating to the absentee ballot process, ss. 6.86,
6.87(3) to (7) and 9.01(1)(b)2. and 4. shall be construed
as mandatory. Ballots cast in contravention of the
procedures specified in those provisions may not be
counted. Ballots counted in contravention of the
procedures specified in those provisions may not be
included in the certified result of any election.

...
[T]he clerk may return the ballot to the elector, inside
the sealed envelope when an envelope is received,
together with a new envelope if necessary, whenever time
permits the elector to correct the defect and return the
ballot within the period authorized under sub. (6).
Section 6.87(9)'s plain language authorizes election officials to
return the ballot to "the elector" to correct "the defect." It
does not authorize election officials to make corrections, i.e.,
to write anything on the certificate.
...
¶77 In addition, Wis. Stat. § 6.87(6d) provides that "f
a certificate is missing the address of a witness, the ballot may
not be counted." This language is clear. And furthermore, its
legislative history confirms its plain meaning.
...
¶78 The contention that ballots with defective addresses
cannot be counted is supported by more than the plain meaning of
Wis. Stat. § 6.87(6d). The requirement that such ballots not be
counted is found in Wis. Stat. § 6.84(2), which provides that the
provisions in § 6.87(6d) are "mandatory."
...
¶80 The WEC ignores that the legislature provided only one
act an election official may take in regard to a defective witness
address: mail the defective ballot back to the elector to correct
the error. Wis. Stat. § 6.87(9). That the legislature made one
No. 2020AP2038.pdr
10
choice about correcting a defective witness address excludes other
methods of correction. "[T]he express mention of one matter
excludes other similar matters [that are] not mentioned."
...
¶85 And finally, guidance documents "are not law, they do
not have the force or effect of law, and they provide no authority
for implementing or enforcing standards or conditions."
...
The plain,
unambiguous words of § 6.87(4)(b)1. require that voted ballots
"shall be mailed by the elector, or delivered in person, to the
municipal clerk issuing the ballot or ballots." Drop boxes do not
meet the legislature's mandatory directive.
...
This is
an amazing contention. Without question, delivery to volun
ary
poll workers is not "delivered in person to the municipal clerk,"
as § 6.87(4)(b)1. requires.

III. CONCLUSION
¶105 The Milwaukee County Board of Canvassers and the Dane
County Board of Canvassers based their decisions on erroneous
advice when they concluded that changes clerks made to defective
witness addresses were permissible. And, the Dane County Board of



Canvassers erred again when it approved the 200 locations for
ballot collection that comprised Democracy in the Park. The
majority does not bother addressing what the boards of canvassers
did or should have done, and instead, four members of this court
throw the cloak of laches over numerous problems that will be
repeated again and again, until this court has the courage to
correct them. The electorate expects more of us, and we are
capable of providing it. Because we do not, I respectfully
dissent.

¶106 I am authorized to state that Justices ANNETTE KINGSLAND
ZIEGLER, and REBECCA GRASSL BRADLEY join this dissent.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online patentlymn

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1075 on: December 16, 2020, 11:22:57 PM »

One thing that bothers me about the court cases is this. The US constitution says that the state legislatures determine election law. Recently state SOS and judges have changed election laws. What is the remedy? Who do people go to for relief? In my former state of WI the state law says any vote deposit boxes have to be manned by election officials. Instead they were unmanned per regs from the state election officials. This is from memory. So this violated state law and the US constitution. Where to go?

I slept on on issue and do not intend to spend time on research and case law or reading the briefs just because it would take too much. So some of what I post below may be from faulty memory. I think there is a very recent WI supreme court case that I may read some time.

What bothers me about the courts situation. The US constitution is clear as to who decides election law. State legislatures. Many states have state laws describing how elections are run. Some even have it in their state constitutions. Recently, state and federal judges, state SOS, state election commissions have changed the laws. Not the written statutes but specify something different to be done. This appears to violate federal and maybe state constitutions, and state laws.

If so what is the remedy? Who gets to file suit and where? If nowhere and nonone then IMO that is a grave problem. The person suing has to have a concrete and particularized harm which has happened or imminent. Just being mad as a taxpayer as one of millions of harmed taxpayers is not enough. It keeps the courts from being buried by millions of suits and provides a way of tossing out suits without even looking at any detailed evidence. Often the courts say if you do not like it vote them out of office which is often right.

If someone believes that the upcoming election is about to be stolen by fraud because the SOS changed the voting rules what then? The person suing has not been harmed and may not be and is just one of millions so has no standing? After being harmed the person may only have privately gather sparse evidence. If they wait the court may invoke laches as the person waited too long. That private citizen's evidence may not matter because the court can say he has no standing.

I recall that in the case of driving religion from the public square SCOTUS did some mental gymnastics and gave everyone standing to sue over those ten commandments on city property. That gave the ACLU the opportunity to make big bucks and they can charge atty fees if any city fights them.

If no one has standing to sue then those parts of constitutions and statues effectively do not exist for law suits.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online patentlymn

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1076 on: December 16, 2020, 11:28:22 PM »

There are allegedly many double voters in GA and no prosecutions yet.

maybe Raffensperger is a wuss and too afraid of being called a racist.

“This office does not have any referrals on double voting cases so far from the State Election Board related to the June 2020 primary or November 2020 general [election],” said Katie Byrd, spokesperson for Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr, a Republican.


Georgia's Republican Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, stung by a backlash from liberal voting-rights groups, is not seeking to prosecute double voters.

The lack of action undercuts Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger’s promise last month "to prosecute those who try to undermine our elections to the fullest extent of the law.”

on edit
Fulton County poll manager Suzi Voyles: “I am not sure the secretary of state has the backbone for this.”

also
If there are two votes for one person how do you prove that that person did both votes?
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online patentlymn

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1077 on: December 16, 2020, 11:43:16 PM »

I posted the above from posts to covert conservatives.

In summary. The US constitution is  clear that state legislators determine state voting laws. Sometimes also state constitutions.
States have election statutes. 
Recently, SOS, election commissions, and judges have changed state election procedures.

In WI, the WEC said it was OK to use remote ballot collection boxes. This violated state law.
If someone sues before the election they have no standing? They have not been harmed yet and harm is not imminent.
If someone sues after the election they waited too late under laches because voters relied on the ballot boxes.

So the ballot box is gone. The courts block access to the jury box. That leaves the cartridge box.




When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online patentlymn

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1078 on: December 16, 2020, 11:45:25 PM »
I read this somewhere but cannot find a link.
As I recall, GA law says in the case of a runoff,  only people registered to vote at the time of the original election can vote. I believe that is being violated. People have been newly registered to vote.

https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-21-elections/ga-code-sect-21-2-501.html
Georgia Code Title 21. Elections § 21-2-501

(10)?The run-off primary, special primary runoff, run-off election, or special election runoff shall be a continuation of the primary, special primary, election, or special election for the particular office concerned. ?Only the electors who were duly registered to vote and not subsequently deemed disqualified to vote in the primary, special primary, election, or special election for candidates for that particular office shall be entitled to vote therein, and only those votes cast for the persons designated as candidates in such run-off primary, special primary runoff, run-off election, or special election runoff shall be counted in the tabulation and canvass of the votes cast. ?No elector shall vote in a run-off primary or special primary runoff in violation of Code Section 21-2-224 .
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online Pablo de Fleurs

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Re: 2018 and 2020 could have lots of fireworks
« Reply #1079 on: December 17, 2020, 05:46:36 AM »

That leaves the cartridge box.

As per the saying "The firings will continue until morale improves" . . . . "The targeting will continue until governing improves."

Coordination is, obviously, key -- random targeting, here & there, won't be effective or impactful. What's needed is #ShockAndAwe.
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For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power & of love and of calm, a well-balanced mind, discipline and self-control.