Author Topic: A Modest Proposal to avoid Civil War - An experiment  (Read 909 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Re: A Modest Proposal to avoid Civil War - An experiment
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2019, 11:39:16 AM »
  And I determined a while back that we are likely well past too late for any peaceable resolution to irreconcilable issues, so basically this is an academic exercise whose sole merit to any actual attempt in fact is relegated to one of propaganda value in having sought the moral high road before doing what is necessary - slitting the throats of the enemies who would enslave us.

Don't under estimate the value of such propaganda. The opinion it sways can have lasting effects and push people towards one side or another.
But yes, It was originally conceived of as an attempt to make liberals confront their own authoritarian nature.  I wanted to make them say " But I have to be able to force you into my collective, because without that , my collective would fail."
But I also think its a reasonable proposal.  I  would probably split resources largely based on the numbers electing to become citizens of either faction. Let the military split itself the same way . If a soldier elects one side, it would be foolish to make him serve in the opposing side's army.

as long as that separation is total, that all assets (especially military and infrastructure) are equally divided, and after a date certain no unfettered travel between new independent nations...and any traitors discovered within the free zone under original Founding structures established under the Constitution are dealt with severely.

Why is total separation required? Under the proposed plan, Blue America doesn't get a vote in Red America, and if you want to switch sides you are basically an immigrant requesting citizenship. But really,  there is no reason we can't work and live along side each other -  at least not from my view.  It would be fun to watch them beg  as things got worse for them. And yes, Red America's Constitution would probably require a few clarifications via amendment..  including an expansion of the definition of treason,

Also would need

1) repeal of income tax  for a VAT like flat tax ,
2) A senate structure - allowing popular vote to nominate candidates, from which the legislatures select - but its unclear to me that States serve a purpose.. and that perhaps the basic unit should be a county. 
3) Explicit authorization to create statistical data collection and  standards and regulation bodies - with NO Authority to mandate - only to recommend- and individual states or counties adopt, or adopt regulations or standards  as amended or don't adopt them at all.
4) Explicit Nullification  - if 1/4 of states ( or counties)  vote to nullify a national law - it is nullified. (in theory the National government only gets to do things 3/4 of us agree on) 

But of course none of it matters and its entirely academic as you suggest. . They are going to force a fight, and they will get it.

Pardon my French but fvck that noise...they yield only to their own tribal members (and even then not entirely) but especially the psychotic legion of murderous rapine louts following that Disciple of Satan they call Mohammad...and like those Satanic bastards they want us enslaved into their collective...or imprisoned or executed by faceless minions loyal to their One True Faith!  There is no living with them...eventually they will resort to stealing, beating and killing to get what they want...who wants anything to do with that?  I would have them as a separate entity cut of from us so no risk of contamination can ever occur.  They sink or swim on their own, literally.  They encroach on us, we swat hard...they do it again we swat really hard.

There are foreign adversaries I will be more courteous with than them.  I am not that masochistic to want to have any connection to them.

But it is academic...this is still on track to be settled the only way it could ever be settled...
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: A Modest Proposal to avoid Civil War - An experiment
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2019, 11:55:59 AM »
.they yield only to their own tribal members (and even then not entirely) but especially the psychotic legion of murderous rapine louts following that Disciple of Satan they call Mohammad...and like those Satanic bastards they want us enslaved into their collective...or imprisoned or executed by faceless minions loyal to their One True Faith!

Muslims are hardly a large number of fellow countrymen at this point, and the number that really want to and have the balls to start something  will find bullets in them pretty quickly in Red America. The larger problem is your run of the mill herd animal. They are sheep and none of them have the will to do anything if they can't enjoy the anonymity of a mob,and assurance they won't be punished.  Red America would simply accept that gunning down or running over an Antifa thug for standing in the middle of the street making threats is perfectly acceptable behavior.  They are only emboldened by the backup the government provides. In Red America, they would be non-existent, or not last long if they started  something.

The vast majority of these people are just pathetic stupid selfish yellow bellied non-contributing  zeros  who rely on the government  to steal for them, and will be far too cowardly to do it themselves against armed opponents. They want us enslaved but they won't do it themselves.  Ever.  I think you over exaggerate the danger. The criminals and thugs will stick to the Blue  City where crime is rewarded.





Offline Libertas

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Re: A Modest Proposal to avoid Civil War - An experiment
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2019, 12:02:01 PM »
.they yield only to their own tribal members (and even then not entirely) but especially the psychotic legion of murderous rapine louts following that Disciple of Satan they call Mohammad...and like those Satanic bastards they want us enslaved into their collective...or imprisoned or executed by faceless minions loyal to their One True Faith!

Muslims are hardly a large number of fellow countrymen at this point, and the number that really want to and have the balls to start something  will find bullets in them pretty quickly in Red America. The larger problem is your run of the mill herd animal. They are sheep and none of them have the will to do anything if they can't enjoy the anonymity of a mob,and assurance they won't be punished.  Red America would simply accept that gunning down or running over an Antifa thug for standing in the middle of the street making threats is perfectly acceptable behavior.  They are only emboldened by the backup the government provides. In Red America, they would be non-existent, or not last long if they started  something.

The vast majority of these people are just pathetic stupid selfish yellow bellied non-contributing  zeros  who rely on the government  to steal for them, and will be far too cowardly to do it themselves against armed opponents. They want us enslaved but they won't do it themselves.  Ever.  I think you over exaggerate the danger. The criminals and thugs will stick to the Blue  City where crime is rewarded.

I make no assumptions in a charitable direction when it comes to enemies...I would rather be wrong in overestimating them than being wrong in underestimating them...if that is overkill I plead guilty.
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Offline patentlymn

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Re: A Modest Proposal to avoid Civil War - An experiment
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2019, 12:42:21 PM »
I think the US is too large to be centrally governed.  Norway has a functioning health care system that does not cost a fortune. Norway has a population about the size of MN.  If free of the fed govt there is no reason MN could not have a reasonable health care system.  This applies to many other areas.

This is one of my favorite Mark Steyn columns.
https://www.ocregister.com/2012/07/08/mark-steyn-lights-out-for-us-style-big-government/
Mark Steyn: Lights out for U.S.-style Big Government

The LCD screen on a Pepco electricty meter is blank along Georgia Avenue July 2, in Silver Spring, Maryland. About 445,000 businesses and households in the metropolitan area surrounding the nation’s capital remain without electricity three days after a deadly storm ripped a path from Illinois to the Mid Atlantic region.
By Orange County Register
July 8, 2012 at 5:51 am
...
But no advanced society has ever attempted Big Government for a third of a billion people – for the simple reason that it cannot be done without creating a nation with the black-hole finances of Stockton, California, and the Black-Hole-of-Calcutta fetid, airless, sweatbox utility services of Rockville, Maryland. Thanks to Obamacare, in matters of health provision, whether you’re in favor of socialized medicine or truly private health care, Swedes and Italians are now freer than Americans: They have a state system and a private system, and both are relatively simple. What’s simple in micro-regulated America? In health care, we now have what’s nominally a private system encrusted with so many statist barnacles that it no longer functions as either a private or state system. Thus, Obamacare embodies the strange no-man’s-land of statism American-style: The U.S. is no longer a land of republican virtue and self-reliant citizens but it’s not headed for the sunlit uplands of Scandinavia, either.

In their book “The Size Of Nations,” Alberto Alesina and Enrico Spolaore argue that, if America were as centrally governed as France, it would have broken up long ago. But hey, that’s no reason not to try it! In a land where everything else is supersized, why not government? Obituaries for the late Andy Griffith generally glossed over his career finale as a pitchman for Obamacare. But he was a canny choice to sell the unsellable, for is not “health” “care” “reform” the communitarian virtues of beloved small-town Mayberry writ large? The problem is, you can’t write Mayberry large. And, if you attempt it, it leads not to Mayberry but to Stockton, California, and to a corrupt, dysfunctional swamp. A large Sweden is a contradiction in terms. It cannot be done, and the more determinedly you try to do it, the more you will preside over a ruined wasteland. The road to hell isn’t paved at all, and the street lamps went out long ago.

©MARK STEYN
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: A Modest Proposal to avoid Civil War - An experiment
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2019, 06:42:59 AM »
Two things.

1 - Good article, I like Steyn, but this was written when the atrocity of Obamacare coalesced enemies and seems a bit preaching to the choir looking back on it now, not that he wasn't wrong...but I also think he understated then and now the perverse appetite for corruption and dysfunction being so ravenous in so many...or how the deep pockets of freedom-destroyers like Soros and his spawn are relentless in their aim to utterly destroy America...and I know he knows that the Goebbels Media is intent on pushing this destruction...there is a lot to overcome before we can even claim to be halting the madness.

2 - Finland?  Dude, WTF?!

https://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,17046.0.html

 ::facepalm::
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Offline Solo

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Re: A Modest Proposal to avoid Civil War - An experiment
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2019, 12:43:43 PM »
Wouldn't it be a lot more fun to just shoot the bastards?

 ::rockets::

J/K....sort of....


Online John Florida

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Re: A Modest Proposal to avoid Civil War - An experiment
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2019, 02:44:21 PM »
  If I had not sold my weapons it would have been a blast( no pun)
All men are created equal"
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Offline Libertas

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Re: A Modest Proposal to avoid Civil War - An experiment
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2019, 06:47:30 AM »
I think the ice may have cleared, might be chilly, but if I dive down and survive the exercise...I could maybe come up shootin'.

 :D
Irrumabo!  GOP? - Nope. No more. They made their bed, now let them die in it.*
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