Author Topic: "How to Think About Putin’s Russia” - Christopher Caldwell  (Read 1326 times)

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Online patentlymn

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I came across this lecture this AM. I thought it was very good. Very thoughtful.
No one has to buy into all this but it sums up how I think of Putin.
 34 min talk then Q&A.
"How to Think About Putin’s Russia” - Christopher Caldwell
Hillsdale College
The following is adapted from a speech delivered on February 15, 2017, at a Hillsdale College National Leadership Seminar in Phoenix, Arizona.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/how-to-think-about-vladimir-putin/

https://youtu.be/CuY8hTWDqYw
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online Libertas

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Re: "How to Think About Putin’s Russia” - Christopher Caldwell
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2019, 12:37:25 PM »
Personal Caveat - When I see someone affiliated with The Weekly Standard my hackles spike up.  That publication used to be something a long long time ago...then Establishment stooges turned it into a mouthpiece of the DeepState!

But, I gave it a fair reading...just wanted to acknowledge my well-earned bias up front first.

As with most articles of this type there is good and bad...and everything in between.

To the meat...

He is the elected leader of Russia—a rugged, relatively poor, militarily powerful country that in recent years has been frequently humiliated, robbed, and misled. His job has been to protect his country’s prerogatives and its sovereignty in an international system that seeks to erode sovereignty in general and views Russia’s sovereignty in particular as a threat.

(Sigh) I do not buy into the long-suffering woe-is-me y'all better pity me Russian low self-esteem and their vacillating confusion over being European or Asian or whatever.  Humiliated, robbed and misled?  By whom?  More often than not by themselves.  Who see's their sovereignty a threat?  If I disagree with their invading and bombing of neighbors or support of batshyt-crazy regimes like Iran with nuclear tech and weaponry am I attacking their sovereignty?  Should I soil my shorts and drop to my knees and beg for forgiveness and feel good about stroking their over-sensitive ego's and knock back Stoli and enjoy watching their pals nuke the planet?

Putin’s respect for the democratic process has been fitful at best. He has cracked down on peaceful demonstrations. Political opponents have been arrested and jailed throughout his rule. Some have even been murdered—Anna Politkovskaya, the crusading Chechnya correspondent shot in her apartment building in Moscow in 2006; Alexander Litvinenko, the spy poisoned with polonium-210 in London months later; the activist Boris Nemtsov, shot on a bridge in Moscow in early 2015. While the evidence connecting Putin’s own circle to the killings is circumstantial, it merits scrutiny.

The Clinton bodycounts are circumstantial too.  Meh, wish Our Team would start suiciding some folks...might as well join the fun while we can!  Fair is fair!

Putin would count as the pre-eminent statesman of our time. On the world stage, who can vie with him? Only perhaps Recep Tayyip Erdo?an of Turkey.

Oh lovely, surrender to one of the other, only options for a good traditional leader?  Who's tradition is this?  Meh, I choose Option C -



And he refused, with ever blunter rhetoric, to accept for Russia a subservient role in an American-run world system drawn up by foreign politicians and business leaders.

Oh, great gobs of scud!  What BS!  He joined, then co-opted (likely with the help of KGB files) the mobsters and would-be political rivals and maintains power over them and the state journalists more along the lines of a General Secretary, autocratic Chancellor or old-time Czar!  And his angst with America is likely as much about butthurt over losing the Cold War as it is the fragile Russian ego.  Not all American's look to dominate Russia just because of Russia or Putin...but not all American's buy a line that is all in or out...most of us are wise enough to separate good and bad...it should not be an either/or all/nothing deal.  People that champion a winner always want absolutes...and in some rare and very high-order levels (like Belief, Principles and Good and Evil) that is OK...in most all other cases it justifies tyranny.

Putin makes my point -We will not tolerate any humiliation to the national pride of Russians, or any threat to the integrity of the country.”

That covers a lot of ground...a wide net is always a favorite of the Strong Man leader-type, and the emphasis on the negative vs the positive is psychologically prototypical of the general Russian ego and in the Strong Man leader-type.  We talk of positives in America, "American Exceptionalism" in a positive pride way...not in a negative way like "We will not tolerate threats to American Exceptionalism!" and can you imagine the reaction if we did?  Who died and made you Putin?! Eh?

"...and he took a hard line on terrorism..."

Really?  The champion of Iran and Syria?  Why does the existential threat to Christian nations as ours as posed by the murderous Mohammadan's across the globe not unite us?  What's the hold up?

The two episodes of concerted outrage about Putin among Western progressives have both involved issues trivial to the world, but vital to the world of progressivism. The first came in 2014, when the Winter Olympics, which were to be held in Sochi, presented an opportunity to damage Russia economically.

The ad hom bruised ego stuff aside...I agree, and wish authors like this would specifically call this out more - Progressives!  Could care less about that ridiculous dreck Team Obama and his Euro-bitches came at Russia with...it trivializes real issues and makes the rest of us look like dorks...but WE did not put these puppets in power!

The second campaign against Putin has been the attempt by the outgoing Obama administration to cast doubt on the legitimacy of last November’s presidential election by implying that the Russian government somehow “hacked” it.

Again, I agree.  This was a three-fer for the Progressive Junta - Save Hitlery's criminal ass, trash Trump and trash Putin.  And while I sympathize with the box Putin was in...it was not our leader he met Putin and his people and talked casually about "felxibility" and conspired with shady Ukrainians and Russians...and beyond calling the accusations ridiculous and pathetic, while I wanted more action form him I understood the risk of inserting himself too deep into the issue...but there are two things he could have done and only one of them we could verify in real-time:

1) Provide arms-length evidence undermining Obama & Clinton - which we cannot tell has happened or not.

2) Stop giving people back in America a reason to distrust him - re: Iran, Syria, Venezuela.

So, at least in part he has not helped the situation, himself or his nation.

The United States was offered the chance to lay out the rules of the world system, and accepted the offer with a vengeance. Russia was offered the role of submitting to that system. 

(Sigh)  Jeepers Cripes!  More fragile ego.  Hey, OK we can play that game too...we demand that you accept your defeat graciously and give us due credit for not truly seizing the opportunity with a vengeance by marching onto your territory and taking it all!  But somehow I doubt that restraint registers on your poor bruised heads...and I doubt the favor would be returned when the Progs implode our nation into chaos!  So perhaps I'll just whip out my "Eff you!" now.

Ukraine/Crimea...not buying the always Russia meme...this Putin Doctrine applied equally for the US would mean basically all our neighbors sovereignty is forfeit by proximity and ethnic make up, right?  I mean look at all the Latin's in Southern border states, all the French, English, Scot, Welsh & Irish in Northern border states.  That sh*t belongs to us, don't tell us it doesn't!  NATO aside, Ukraine and Crimea is about one thing - Russian energy monopoly, period!

NATO sucks, yes they suck, we own the Cold War and those ungrateful Euro-sh*ts can stand up on their own or be mauled to death...don't really GAFF which one happens!

I'd like to work with Putin, not Erdogan, not the Mohammadan theocrats of Persia, not the suicidal Eurotards...but Putin has to work with us.  Why is it one must come hat-in-hand and kneel before the Czar and no give and take?

Where's the bone?

As far as this article asserts the problem is all on the American side...we need to understand Putin, we need to assuage his ego, we need to capitulate to his hegemony wherever presented without question...or we are mindless barbarians bent on destruction and oceans of blood!

Oh...OK...that sounds helpful and realistic...

/

There is no bone...

We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline John Florida

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Re: "How to Think About Putin’s Russia” - Christopher Caldwell
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2019, 03:46:59 PM »
I don't have the time or wish to give this article the time because of who wrote it or the subject.  The writers aren't trust worthy and the subject even more so. 

  Were talking about an article from deep staters about communist KGB officer who has won election questionably and went so far as to put a placeholder in office so he can get (ahem) re elected in a fair and free election(yeah right).

 He has jailed and murdered journalists and even poisoned people abroad and denied all of it.  He has invaded neighbors and blamed them.  He conspired with the flexible Obama and has supported every enemy of  ours. so forgive me if I don't GAS about the authors and the subject.

   
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Online patentlymn

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Re: "How to Think About Putin’s Russia” - Christopher Caldwell
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2019, 07:17:08 PM »
I was always pro US and pro military. In polls I was considered far right. My first political forum I posted on was ACOC. I love Ann Coulter. I hate communists. They are evil. They killed maybe 100 million in the last 100 years. I knew the US did not want to attack the USSR but thought the opposite might be true.

Then the USSR collapsed. Russia withdrew its forces to Russia. I thought the cold war was over and we won. I read that NATO would not move East. I thought we should draw down forces as an act of good faith.  Then things changed.

NATO moved East. Why? I did not want Russia tanks on the US border and could see why they would not want NATO tanks on their border. I just started looking at things more in terms of the military industrial complex and people in Washington DC making trouble to make work and money for themselves. I think that is the real motivation behind most of this.
That is just my opinion. 

There are two sides to the Ukraine issues. Crimea used to be part of Russia until 1954 the the USSR moved them to Ukraine. They held a referendum and over 90% of the people want to be part of Russia. Good enough for me. Not our problem.  Ukraine is going to wish they were part of Russia in a few years. Russia is abandoning them.  The new gas pipelines bypass Ukraine. Thanks to the trade embargo trade between Russia and Ukraine dropped. The EU wants little to do with them.  IMO the US funded the coup that made the elected leader of Ukraine flee the country.

A small number of connected people ended up owning much of Russia some how. Putin fixed much of that. If not him then I hope someone else would have done that. I am surprised there was not more bloodshed. We outspend Russia 10 to 1 on defense.  Some countries like Syria and VE invited Russia in because they cannot trust the US. The US armed Jihadis in Syria while Russia backed the elected govt.

When candidate Trump said he could get along with Putin and might get out of NATO that threatened billions of dollars per year. I think our bad relationship with Russia is a result of that threat. Powerful people reacted. Russia would rather be allies with the US then Syria or VE but powerful people want to make sure that does not happen.

I am much more concerned with China and Islam than Russia.

When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online patentlymn

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Re: "How to Think About Putin’s Russia” - Christopher Caldwell
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2019, 09:01:32 PM »

Hmm. At 1:10:00 or at 1:13:00 these guys cite the Financial Times. The new Ukrainian president proposed talks with the Eastern regions but the US shot it down.???

https://youtu.be/-mAdC7twL-c
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online Libertas

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Re: "How to Think About Putin’s Russia” - Christopher Caldwell
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2019, 10:19:05 AM »
I was always pro US and pro military. In polls I was considered far right. My first political forum I posted on was ACOC. I love Ann Coulter. I hate communists. They are evil. They killed maybe 100 million in the last 100 years. I knew the US did not want to attack the USSR but thought the opposite might be true.

Then the USSR collapsed. Russia withdrew its forces to Russia. I thought the cold war was over and we won. I read that NATO would not move East. I thought we should draw down forces as an act of good faith.  Then things changed.

NATO moved East. Why? I did not want Russia tanks on the US border and could see why they would not want NATO tanks on their border. I just started looking at things more in terms of the military industrial complex and people in Washington DC making trouble to make work and money for themselves. I think that is the real motivation behind most of this.
That is just my opinion. 

There are two sides to the Ukraine issues. Crimea used to be part of Russia until 1954 the the USSR moved them to Ukraine. They held a referendum and over 90% of the people want to be part of Russia. Good enough for me. Not our problem.  Ukraine is going to wish they were part of Russia in a few years. Russia is abandoning them.  The new gas pipelines bypass Ukraine. Thanks to the trade embargo trade between Russia and Ukraine dropped. The EU wants little to do with them.  IMO the US funded the coup that made the elected leader of Ukraine flee the country.

A small number of connected people ended up owning much of Russia some how. Putin fixed much of that. If not him then I hope someone else would have done that. I am surprised there was not more bloodshed. We outspend Russia 10 to 1 on defense.  Some countries like Syria and VE invited Russia in because they cannot trust the US. The US armed Jihadis in Syria while Russia backed the elected govt.

When candidate Trump said he could get along with Putin and might get out of NATO that threatened billions of dollars per year. I think our bad relationship with Russia is a result of that threat. Powerful people reacted. Russia would rather be allies with the US then Syria or VE but powerful people want to make sure that does not happen.

I am much more concerned with China and Islam than Russia.

That's the proper focus...but Russia is a BRIC-mate and their closeness with some questionable Islamic outfits must be giving the CHi-Com's some pause...unless there is tacit approval in it that serves the Chinese long game...as is my suspicion.  I'd caution people about their bedmates but telling them so can fall on deaf ears so instead I will let history unfold as it will.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Libertas

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Re: "How to Think About Putin’s Russia” - Christopher Caldwell
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2019, 10:59:45 AM »

Hmm. At 1:10:00 or at 1:13:00 these guys cite the Financial Times. The new Ukrainian president proposed talks with the Eastern regions but the US shot it down.???

https://youtu.be/-mAdC7twL-c

"People" in Ukraine, despite their ethnicity...and certainly despite any honest opinion they may have for whoever asks it...are pawns...Crimea and the Eastern regions like Donbas are about power, money, control...period.



"The (Black sticky) Spice Must Flow!"

Since the election of the comedian...I have hard no official response to his desire to have talks about the East since it was mentioned back on Monday...and winning 73% of the vote did not even generate an official congratulation call from Putin (instead he bemoaned 3.5M people denied a vote in Russian occupied East! LOL!), ...so if Washington is unsure about this guy so is Moscow.  But everybody is inviting him for a visit, so sooner perhaps more than later we'll find out really what this guy has to offer.   But Putin is moving ahead with absorbing the East into Russia with his instant-citizenship move.  So he continues to give Zelensky no reason to trust him.  If I had to guess In would say Machiavellian advisors floated to rumor that Washington nixed any talks talk to provide cover for their new leader who had no intention of legitimizing the annexation of the Eastern regions.  I think Zelensky has a chance to chart an independent course, but it all depends upon the Eurotards and Putin being reasonable and respectful of Ukrainian sovereignty...and for that I regretfully give it very slim odds.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online patentlymn

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Re: "How to Think About Putin’s Russia” - Christopher Caldwell
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2019, 08:40:09 PM »

Were the Ukrainians in the East allowed to vote? I don't know. I never heard of that.
I read their pensions had been stopped and the Ukrainian govt would not issue people in the East passports which makes it difficult to travel outside Ukraine.

I think Putin offered people in the East Russian passports for that reason.

I think Russian gave people in the East support during the fighting but I do not think the East is Russian occupied. Elections with UN observers in the East would have been possible I would think.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Over a year ago there were some reporters wandering around Eastern Ukraine. What the people their told them did not match what the MSM tells us. A chimpanzee wearing a go pro camera would do better than the MSM in most cases.

When the Russians wanted to run a pipeline through Greece the EU said no because NATO or something. Now that the pipelines are to run directly to Germany through the Baltic Sea the Germans said fine, as they get the transport fees. The Greeks are pissed.

According to the Duran, the EU does not care about Ukraine and thinks they are a corrupt unreliable govt to deal with. The US likes to use them to provoke Russia. Nobody wants Western Ukraine.
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Online Libertas

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Re: "How to Think About Putin’s Russia” - Christopher Caldwell
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2019, 07:08:13 AM »

Were the Ukrainians in the East allowed to vote? I don't know. I never heard of that.
I read their pensions had been stopped and the Ukrainian govt would not issue people in the East passports which makes it difficult to travel outside Ukraine.

I think Putin offered people in the East Russian passports for that reason.

I think Russian gave people in the East support during the fighting but I do not think the East is Russian occupied. Elections with UN observers in the East would have been possible I would think.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Over a year ago there were some reporters wandering around Eastern Ukraine. What the people their told them did not match what the MSM tells us. A chimpanzee wearing a go pro camera would do better than the MSM in most cases.

When the Russians wanted to run a pipeline through Greece the EU said no because NATO or something. Now that the pipelines are to run directly to Germany through the Baltic Sea the Germans said fine, as they get the transport fees. The Greeks are pissed.

According to the Duran, the EU does not care about Ukraine and thinks they are a corrupt unreliable govt to deal with. The US likes to use them to provoke Russia. Nobody wants Western Ukraine.

Well, I dunno...it would be like if just because Deerbornistan was mostly Islamic it makes it OK to seize into the Caliphate and the former host nation had to have elections there that would adversely affect the welfare of the nation they were attached to and a benefit to the conqueror...which is it?  Do two illegitimate acts make a legitimate one?  A corrupt government anywhere is not unusual, the fact that some see only Ukraine as corrupt I think is extremely naive.  Most governments are corrupt because they draw nefarious individuals like moths to flame.  The real victims here are the people of Ukraine...they never had a chance to chart an independent course.  Just because they had always been subjugated by Russia does not mean that condition can or should remain in force for perpetuity.  If such insanity is to be universally accepted then a nightmarish host of things can be justified merely because it is deemed the norm.  Ukraine was forced to pick a master East or West, they were allowed no other choice...and having been under the Rus fist for so long they chose a new master.  Can you blame them?  And now, because of energy extortion and fear this East-West crap has them pinned.  Frankly I wish the Ukrainians were in a position to attack in both directions!  There are no innocents in this as far as external interlopers are concerned, picking a winner or a loser or the lesser of either only means you are part of the problem...and the meat will continue to grind.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.