Author Topic: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again  (Read 2643 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2023, 08:33:23 AM »


Armenia has canceled planned military drills with Russia which were to be held under the countries' Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), straining relations further between the uneasy regional allies.

"These exercises will not take place," Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan told a Tuesday press briefing. "Armenia does not believe it is expedient to conduct CSTO exercises in the republic this year."

It's a sign that the protracted war in Ukraine is causing Moscow to lose influence in the Southern Caucasus region, but it also follows the CSTO refusing to condemn Azerbaijan aggression related to the Nagorno-Karabakh war of 2020, and other skirmishes which followed.

Armenia had consistently called on Russia to intervene on its side, but the Kremlin resisted, instead only sending peace-keeping troops to mediate what in the end was a forced Armenian handover of key disputed land and villages it lost in the 2020 war.

Pashinyan in his latest comments specifically referenced the CSTO refusing to formally condemn Azerbaijan.

It's an embarrassing blow to Russia, given its defense ministry just this month announced multiple joint exercises under the CSTO umbrella, at least one of which was supposed to be hosted in Armenia, dubbed the "Indestructible Brotherhood-2023" exercises.

Pashinyan addressed this head-on in his Tuesday comments: "Russia’s military presence in Armenia not only fails to guarantee its security, but it raises security threats for Armenia," he said.

The Associated Press reviews of past two years of tense relations as follows:

The Azerbaijani move has left Russia in a precarious position. Armenia hosts a Russian military base, and Moscow has been the country’s top ally and sponsor. But the Kremlin also has sought to maintain warm ties with oil-rich Azerbaijan. Western sanctions over the Russian invasion of Ukraine have made Russia increasingly dependent on Azerbaijan’s main ally, Turkey.

With its attention focused on the fighting in Ukraine, Russia has taken a wait-and-see attitude on the Lachin corridor blockade, angering Armenia.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/armenia-lashes-out-russia-cancels-military-drills-its-territory

First time I recall it plainly stated that as a result of the war in Ukraine that Russia needs Turkey more than its indestructible brotherhood allies!
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2023, 08:29:22 AM »
How's that CSTO harmony coming along?  Not so good, eh?  Yeah...getting disparate ethnicities to play nice with each other without a full-blown totalitarian apparatus to force it is a bit more challenging than expected, eh?  Could lead to some BRICS issues too.


https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/road-could-ignite-war-caucasus

What is Putin to do?  Side with Turkey & Azerbaijan or Iran and Armenia?  Or piss all of them off by doing nothing?

And now Israel and Azerbaijan cooperation against Iran principally has to really chaff Vlad's arse!

India hedging its bets a bit too.  And Gallagher's ubiquitous use of the NeoCon label is not affecting my interest in seeing any play in motion which targets the lunatic Mahdi Death Cult in Iran and their nightmarish dreams of running amok with nuclear blackmail and terror...

Ignoring the ubiquitous anti-NeoCon ad hom dreck is sane for anyone wanting the greater Evil of Iran dealt with.  Everything else is sideshow distraction crap.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2023, 08:08:32 AM »
Ahh, yes...genocide...something the Islamic Turks have enjoyed a Millenia against Armenian Christians...this latest bout courtesy of the sins of past Soviet-ruled Russia and its appetite for territory...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/slow-genocide-120000-armenian-christians-happening-under-azerbaijan-occupation-report

Too bad Armenia has no military might to come to the rescue of its population...or a neighboring co-religionist from any direction interested in fending off the murderous Mohammadans...
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2023, 11:56:44 AM »
Interesting...

https://www.wnd.com/2023/09/u-s-conducts-military-exercises-country-thought-russias-back-pocket/

...Russia's failure to prevent genocide seems to have opened a material wedge within CSTO.

Can't blame them.  Russia, Turkey & Azerbaijan own that.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2023, 12:18:13 PM »

^^^
I read the link. So Russian peacekeepers failed to prevent this????
What is your impression of this? Are outside actors involved on either side?
Who is arming each side?
What kicked the first part off?

All I remember is that this was the first major use of the smaller and medium drones, by Azerbaijan.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2023, 12:33:21 PM »
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2023, 12:34:25 PM »
Azerbaijan closed the pass...allowing Mohammadan ally Turks to commit genocide (again) and Russia as senior CSTO member didn't stop it...seems pretty clear cut to me...

Funny the Britannica link failed to mention the corridor is under Azer blockade...
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Online patentlymn

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2023, 01:09:00 PM »
^^^
The Max Blumenthal book The Management of Savagery talks about the "disposal problem."  When a power is done using the crazies, what to do with them? You don't want them in your country. Turkey funneled ISIS and the like into Syria. BTW according to the civilians, most of the fighters in the so called Syrian civil war were not from Syria.

Israel provided ISIS a safe corridor to exit Syria  but Turkey did not want these crazies inside Turkey so they threw them into battles elsewhere. They threw them into battle against Armenia. I read a headline quoting them from that battle. "Turkey doesn't care if we die." No kidding.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2023, 04:51:12 PM »

Here is a VERY long history of this region from Russian born Dreizin. Lots of details.

Israel, then Turkey aided the Azeris.  i copied some stuff from near the end. He starts WAY back in time.

https://thedreizinreport.com/2023/09/09/solving-the-kardashians/
...
Until circa 1600, the territory now comprising the state of Azerbaijan, and northwest Iran, was likely still majority-inhabited by Indo-Iranians, primarily (not exclusively but primarily) Armenians in what’s now Azerbaijan, and Iranians in northwest Iran.
... zzzzz
This gives you an idea as to how relatively few Azeris lived in Baku.  Or, perhaps, how little they mattered.

Under Soviet rule, the rural population was somewhat lifted up, made literate, and to some extent urbanized, such that by 1991, there was a large Azeri majority in the city, with an entirely Soviet-created, Azeri secular “intelligentsia”, where none whatsoever had existed before.

In short, the USSR created the state of Azerbaijan, which did NOT have its own history like Armenia or Georgia.

However, Azeris counted for very little in the USSR.

Coming from a low cultural level (prior to the Revolution), unlike Armenia and Georgia, they produced no major names for Soviet culture or industry.  Certainly, there were people of local talent, but they did not make it on the national stage.
...
Azeri politics were finally stabilized by a former local KGB boss and USSR Politburo member, last name Aliev.  His son is still ruling the country, 30 years later.

Sadly, the period (from 1988) leading up to Independence, was accompanied by huge pogroms against Armenians living in all Azerbaijani cities.
...
Several hundred thousand Armenians were driven out, destitute, into Armenia, or Russia.  Almost no Armenians remained, the country was cleansed.

A process begun circa 1500AD, was completed.
...
Starting around 2007, Israel began courting Azerbaijan as an “Israeli airstrip and refueling station” for potential bombing of Iranian nuclear sites.

(You see, unlike the USA, Israel has no planes that can fly 3000km round-trip without refueling.)

Almost immediately, AIPAC, with its ears to the ground, sent a delegation of some of its board and top donors, to meet with Aliev’s son and his wife.  They were given a command performance at the national opera hall or whatever, and a tour of the (formerly) Jewish quarter of Baku.

(I read about this in AIPAC’s public newsletter, it happened just before I worked there, I’m NOT disclosing anything.)

Quietly, Israel and Azerbaijan became allies.
...
Later, Erdogan’s “neo-imperial” Turkey stepped in, taking over all planning, doctrine, organization, etc. for the Azeri air force, which soon included, and in fact, became largely…..

….A DRONE ARM.

By 2020, when the younger Aliev launched a war to retake Karabakh, the Azeri side—with Turkish “advisors” likely running the show—had many Turkish as well as perhaps several hundred Israeli surveillance and purpose-built kamikaze drones (the world’s best) in stock.

It was the first drone war.
...
Today, Armenia’s “Quisling” government, with a security cabinet of Soros program graduates, with only minority (public) support, but without a coherent, functional opposition, is preparing to give up Karabakh, swing away from Russia, and become a joint protectorate of the U.S. and Turkey.
...
The Final Triumph of the Turks in the south Caucasus, and the final (really final, this time) solution to the Armenian Question…..

…..seems to be at hand.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2023, 09:27:04 AM »
So, genocide, they deserve it some think...

Still, changes nothing, Big Brother Slav's CSTO not worth a bucket of piss...
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Online patentlymn

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2023, 02:40:19 PM »

Alexander of the Duran talked about this.
The US is doing military exercises in Armenia. Azeris moved troops to border in response.
The US pissed off Russia, Iran, and likely Turkey.
Another country for the US to use and discard. Reminds me that the US used Georgia and they ended up much worse off.

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Online patentlymn

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2023, 07:30:30 PM »
From memory, YT doc said the Abkhaz people are of uncertain origin. They were an autonomous region for a long time.  They were a separate country until 1921 when conquered by the USSR. Stalin joined them to Georgia and banned their language. Apparently lots of Georgians moved into Abkhazia.

Patrick Lancaster visited Abkhazia 4 years ago and interviewed people on camera. Apparently it was a popular resort area in USSR. On Black Sea. One local said she remembered being bombed by the Georgians around 1992. Lots destroyed.

According to Scott Ritter, Georgia started that civil war after USSR fell and the Abkhaz finished it. Atrocities on both sides. Abkhazia expelled Georgians.

It wouldn't be accurate to say the Abkhas invaded Georgia.There was a forced marriage by Stalin, now dissolved.

There were Russians in the Russian empire including in the Donbass area and Crimea. Ukrainians around Kiev, Poles around Lvov. Lenin drew lines on a map to include the Donbass and Kiev and named it Ukraine.  The Russians were there; after 2014 Kiev got on some ethnic superiority kick and wanted to ban Russian and drive Russians off land they have been on for hundreds of years.  Its not like the Russians in Donbass invaded 'Ukraine' in 1921 and were not assimilated. There was a forced marriage.  Ukrainians migrated into Donbass for economic opportunity in USSR.

Dagestan has 13 official ethnic groups and 14 official languages. Who is the invader?

The US loves to exploit such situations. see Libya, Syria, Serbia, ...
« Last Edit: September 14, 2023, 06:49:18 AM by patentlymn »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2023, 08:17:33 AM »
From memory, YT doc said the Abkhaz people are of uncertain origin. They were an autonomous region for a long time.  They were a separate country until 1921 when conquered by the USSR. Stalin joined them to Georgia and banned their language. Apparently lots of Georgians moved into Abkhazia.

Patrick Lancaster visited Abkhazia 4 years ago and interviewed people on camera. Apparently it was a popular resort area in USSR. On Black Sea. One local said she remembered being bombed by the Georgians around 1992. Lots destroyed.

According to Scott Ritter, Georgia started that civil war after USSR fell and the Abkhaz finished it. Atrocities on both sides. Abkhazia expelled Georgians.

It wouldn't be accurate to say the Abkhas invaded Georgia.There was a forced marriage by Stalin, now dissolved.

There were Russians in the Russian empire including in the Donbass area and Crimea. Ukrainians around Kiev, Poles around Lvov. Lenin drew lines on a map to include the Donbass and Kiev and named it Ukraine.  The Russians were there; after 2014 Kiev got on some ethnic superiority kick and wanted to ban Russian and drive Russians off land they have been on for hundreds of years.  Its not like the Russians in Donbass invaded 'Ukraine' in 1921 and were not assimilated. There was a forced marriage. Ukrainians migrated into Donbass for economic opportunity in USSR.

Dagestan has 13 official ethnic groups and 14 official languages. Who is the invader?

The US loves to exploit such situations. see Libya, Syria, Serbia, ...

 ::hysterical::

Some may call that rape, or akin to Muslim child brides...and rape!

I will not endorse that with any legitimacy...ever.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2023, 04:17:36 PM »
Brian Berletic likes to publish public info on western trained leaders and officers of US NGOs. Usually a big paper trail of their training and backgrounds. E.g. the WEF young leaders program. so when Dreizin calls them "soros graduates" below  he likely has reasons.

The Duran often ponders what globalist sinecure awaits the country's leader after they sell out the citizens. US Marines trained Georgian troops who then attacked the south Ossetia region (in the Georgia north) then the Russians counter attacked and Georgia was worse off than before. Georgians were not happy and leader ended up at a DC think tank.

Current Moldovan  PM?  He graduated with a Master's degree in business administration from Newport International University's Belgium branch in 2000.[6]

Current Moldovan president? Harvard, World Bank. 

After current Armenian PM/president gives away Nagorno-Karabakh, he needs a golden parachute to escape pissed off citizens.

Here is the Dreizin summary.
https://thedreizinreport.com/2023/09/07/as-armenian-govt-of-soros-graduates-prepares-to-host-u-s-war-game-withdraw-from-post-soviet-collective-defense-treaty-abandon-nagorno-karabakh-to-azerbaijan-definitively-flip-away-from-russi/

As Armenian govt of “Soros graduates” prepares to host U.S. war game, withdraw from post-Soviet collective defense treaty, abandon Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijan, & definitively flip away from Russia towards USA and Turkey (LOL, can’t make it up!!!!!), top pro-Russian blogger Mika Badalyan & seven friends / associates arrested by masked G-Men, all on charges of “illicit arms trafficking” (they publicly fundraised / bought / sent Chinese unarmed $300 quadrocopters to Russia, as show of support.) Not 1st time he has been detained & tried, but, this time they have to put him down for good, “clear the field.” Folks, “the Democracy” is coming to USA, soon enough. It’s all coming here, as I wrote even in 2021. They will eventually HAVE to take a mad shot at “clearing the field.” (You’ve seen nothing yet.)


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Online patentlymn

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2023, 04:30:16 PM »

Current Armenian PM seems to be a scoundrel, not western educated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikol_Pashinyan#Early_life_and_education
BUT
Pashinyan's new government included multiple liberal western NGO activists being appointed to senior positions,[11] as well as supporters from the Velvet Revolution who had no previous political experience.[12][13]
« Last Edit: September 15, 2023, 04:34:59 PM by patentlymn »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2023, 08:10:32 AM »
It's appalling...not one graduate of Lomonosov Moscow State University, I demand an investigation!

Wait, no...what a ridiculous ask...

What is annoying, appalling etc is why there are no "good guy" popping "bad guys" in the strictest sense of terms in any nation/region/arena/whateverthehellyouwanttocallit...

Almost like the inmates everywhere all agreed to say eff it we're doomed anyway...

What it looks like anyway...

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Online patentlymn

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2023, 10:37:24 AM »

What a mess.

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/FMfcgzGtxKPHSsCPZgZnGvnDxHWZjHph

Open-source flight tracker websites have shown at least 7 military cargo flights (IL-76 aircraft) from Israel to Azerbaijan since end of August. They are stocking up like mad on Israeli drones. Likely reason for invasion delay is… Iran.

Azeri side has pushed for Iranian non-intervention, even hosting a high-level Iranian army delegation to “inspect” something or other. Iranian red line (restated at recent meeting of Iran & Turk foreign ministers) is Azeri movement into (south) Armenia “proper” (not unrecognized Karabakh) so as to establish corridor to Nakhichevan & Turkey, w/ effect of providing Turkey a direct route to border w/ Iranian E. & W. Azerbaijan provinces, while cutting Iran’s land access to entire Caucasus incl. Armenia, Georgia, & Russia.

Problem for Azeris, there’s little sense in re-launching war to retake Karabakh w/o ALSO moving for Armenian total knockout & link-up w/ Turkey (which might be legitimized post-facto by Armenian surrender treaty to “allow” [recognize] Azeri/Turkish access & security control while maintaining Armenian “sovereignty” over the land) while GLOBOHOMO’s attention still glued to Russia-Ukraine. (Note how USA has **IGNORED** Azeri hereditary monarchy’s plans to attack kinda-sorta “democratic”, West-pivoting Armenia… presumably due to extreme need for Turkish weapons/munitions for the Ukraine.)
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2023, 11:38:06 AM »
The strange bedfellows are interesting but superfluous to the Russian failure to maintain control as lead CSTO, uhh partner...
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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2023, 04:43:48 PM »
^^^
I am confused. What was Russia supposed to do? I do not disagree I do not know anything.

Duran says that Armenia wants to dump this region in order to apply to NATO and EU while blaming RU for not doing enough. They say RU was Armenia's ally and EU will not be. Also RU helped Armenia survive from 18th century until now.

They say that RU - Armenia got along well until current president who might change their alignment. RU warned Armenia not to push things on that region. Lots of RU business ties to Armenia?

Azeris and Turkey and Iran do not want Armenia to join NATO. Iran gets along well with Armenia but warned them about joining NATO. RU is angry about Armenia military exercises with US. So Armenia may isolate itself. Duran says Georgia is now trying to patch things up with RU.

They say that the US has wanted to meddle in south caucuses for a long time and mess with RU. Armenia may regret this.

https://youtu.be/qKxc8-6MCVg
Leading Armenia down the primrose path

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Offline Libertas

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Re: Nagorno-Karabakh festivities firing up again
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2023, 09:06:37 AM »
Must be nice to blame others all the time as an excuse for doing nothing or doing something...I gotta do this more often...

As it stands...none of this is my fault anyway so I guess I don't GAFF what really happens...

They all got it coming...   ::smallestviolin::
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