Topic: US Empire etners a doom loop?

[patentlymn]

Short version vi vox day.
https://voxday.net/2023/12/20/the-empire-enters-the-doom-loop/
The Empire Enters the Doom Loop

Ahnaf Habib, writing at The Tree of Woe, implicitly contends that that my decades-old prediction of the collapse of the USA as a singular political entity in 2033 is too optimistic:

    This is a Doom Loop. All signs presently indicate that The US has entered said Loop. The gravity of the moment we are in cannot be merely dismissed on a whim of ‘hope’.

    There was a time when the United States and its peoples could safely hide behind two Oceans, a robust economy, a homogenous society (ethnic, cultural and religious), technological prowess, etc. However, none of those are extant today.

    America had its chance. It had an opportunity to pursue Empire in some “benevolent” capacity. It had its shot at leading the rest of world in a manner that could have been dignified, measured and temperate. It had all of that and much more.

    But that is all in the past. What remains today is nothing more than “inertia”.
...

Original version

https://treeofwoe.substack.com/p/the-great-satan-and-the-last-man
The Great Satan and the Last Man
Or, How The United States of America is Flirting with Annihilation
Dec 20, 2023

Editor’s Note: Doom comes at you fast. It was only three months ago that I predicted the end of America as we know it within 16 months. Now it feels like I was being overly optimistic.
...

https://treeofwoe.substack.com/p/the-great-satan-and-the-last-man

[Libertas]

Best thing that can happen?  Ghoulish.  Some deserve blame more than others...something this ghoul doesn't even care to address, but to be fair every element in the world today that hates America also passes sentence on the plural...

Remember that as the horror commences, remember that as foreign interlopers arrive to peck at the carcass and go Mahdi Death Cult on the survivors...

Hell is about to be filled up with more than just Americans...the ripple-effect is going to epic, too bad we won't be alive to point and snort "I told you so"...

People are never careful about what they wish for...and I no longer have to be careful towards them...

Idiots think this will usher in global nirvana...and, are people going to be rudely shocked...it merely will exponentially up the meat-grinder...

Propagandists say nothing can be done to avoid it...forcing the worst of the prophecy to be fulfilled by laziness, stupidity and fatalism.

The most shameful thing is not even trying...

[patentlymn]

Best thing that can happen?  Ghoulish.  Some deserve blame more than others...something this ghoul doesn't even care to address, but to be fair every element in the world today that hates America also passes sentence on the plural...

Remember that as the horror commences, remember that as foreign interlopers arrive to peck at the carcass and go Mahdi Death Cult on the survivors...

Hell is about to be filled up with more than just Americans...the ripple-effect is going to epic, too bad we won't be alive to point and snort "I told you so"...

People are never careful about what they wish for...and I no longer have to be careful towards them...

Idiots think this will usher in global nirvana...and, are people going to be rudely shocked...it merely will exponentially up the meat-grinder...

Propagandists say nothing can be done to avoid it...forcing the worst of the prophecy to be fulfilled by laziness, stupidity and fatalism.

The most shameful thing is not even trying...

I never got that impression. That things would improve?
 Many people said that as a result of US over playing their sanctions the rest of the world would start to de-dollarize, avoid SWIFT, etc and that would be bad for US.
I noticed that China, much of middle east, and Africa re snubbing the US in public. Did you notice the Putin reception recently in UAE/Saudi?  Things might improve in these places.  US/EU will get worse.

[Libertas]

Best thing that can happen?  Ghoulish.  Some deserve blame more than others...something this ghoul doesn't even care to address, but to be fair every element in the world today that hates America also passes sentence on the plural...

Remember that as the horror commences, remember that as foreign interlopers arrive to peck at the carcass and go Mahdi Death Cult on the survivors...

Hell is about to be filled up with more than just Americans...the ripple-effect is going to epic, too bad we won't be alive to point and snort "I told you so"...

People are never careful about what they wish for...and I no longer have to be careful towards them...

Idiots think this will usher in global nirvana...and, are people going to be rudely shocked...it merely will exponentially up the meat-grinder...

Propagandists say nothing can be done to avoid it...forcing the worst of the prophecy to be fulfilled by laziness, stupidity and fatalism.

The most shameful thing is not even trying...

I never got that impression. That things would improve?
 Many people said that as a result of US over playing their sanctions the rest of the world would start to de-dollarize, avoid SWIFT, etc and that would be bad for US.
I noticed that China, much of middle east, and Africa re snubbing the US in public. Did you notice the Putin reception recently in UAE/Saudi?  Things might improve in these places.  US/EU will get worse.

Uhh huh, how is China going to replace American trade that pulled them out of the backwater 3rd world nation they were that enabled them to become a global military power?  The rest of the world cannot hope to fill that large a gap...and no nation is going to repeat that mistake if they have a choice...  The most populous nation - India - are they going to subordinate their own economy to save China?  80% of their economy is mom & pop businesses...couldn't do that without effectively eliminating a vast majority of their citizens.  Which means one clear thing...with America effectively gone, the Chinese military machine will run roughshod over the globe, starting with the Pacific basin...

Yes, America will be gone, celebrations will rage...and then their suffering begins...

And then, how long will Russia be able to keep the ravenous Panda at bay...?

Oh well, sh*t happens...

When Rome fell most of Europe and Western Asia plunged into the Dark Ages...the fall of America will have much much more severe consequences...

But hey, why ruin the party...

[patentlymn]

Best thing that can happen?  Ghoulish.  Some deserve blame more than others...something this ghoul doesn't even care to address, but to be fair every element in the world today that hates America also passes sentence on the plural...

Remember that as the horror commences, remember that as foreign interlopers arrive to peck at the carcass and go Mahdi Death Cult on the survivors...

Hell is about to be filled up with more than just Americans...the ripple-effect is going to epic, too bad we won't be alive to point and snort "I told you so"...

People are never careful about what they wish for...and I no longer have to be careful towards them...

Idiots think this will usher in global nirvana...and, are people going to be rudely shocked...it merely will exponentially up the meat-grinder...

Propagandists say nothing can be done to avoid it...forcing the worst of the prophecy to be fulfilled by laziness, stupidity and fatalism.

The most shameful thing is not even trying...

I never got that impression. That things would improve?
 Many people said that as a result of US over playing their sanctions the rest of the world would start to de-dollarize, avoid SWIFT, etc and that would be bad for US.
I noticed that China, much of middle east, and Africa re snubbing the US in public. Did you notice the Putin reception recently in UAE/Saudi?  Things might improve in these places.  US/EU will get worse.

Uhh huh, how is China going to replace American trade that pulled them out of the backwater 3rd world nation they were that enabled them to become a global military power?  The rest of the world cannot hope to fill that large a gap...and no nation is going to repeat that mistake if they have a choice...  The most populous nation - India - are they going to subordinate their own economy to save China?  80% of their economy is mom & pop businesses...couldn't do that without effectively eliminating a vast majority of their citizens.  Which means one clear thing...with America effectively gone, the Chinese military machine will run roughshod over the globe, starting with the Pacific basin...

Yes, America will be gone, celebrations will rage...and then their suffering begins...

And then, how long will Russia be able to keep the ravenous Panda at bay...?

Oh well, sh*t happens...

When Rome fell most of Europe and Western Asia plunged into the Dark Ages...the fall of America will have much much more severe consequences...

But hey, why ruin the party...

As I say, I do not understand intl finance. China has a growing internal market maybe? They seem to loan money for Chinese made projects and make money off that. China seems to be the only country that can make RR stuff cheap and fast.

EU vacated Russian markets making room for China. I heard that most St. Pete taxis were now Chinese. Russia sells natural resources and Chinese sells consumer goods. Russia v China conflict? Who knows. I heard about a recent big deal between RU and China near Harbin and that province.

Robert A Heinlein always wrote about the Chinee half of Australia. I recall  video of some Chinese share croppers in Siberia? Some video went into why Chinese would be more interested in other regions. There was  dispute over Mongolia but Stalin refused to make a move even when China was weak. Now mineral wealth discovered. There was a dispute over some islands in the Amur River, worthless to both. RU gave some back to save face for Chinese.

China always struck me as too business oriented. They will throw their weight around near their borders. Gulf of MX was an American Lake. South China Sea will be a Chinese Lake.

[Libertas]

Best thing that can happen?  Ghoulish.  Some deserve blame more than others...something this ghoul doesn't even care to address, but to be fair every element in the world today that hates America also passes sentence on the plural...

Remember that as the horror commences, remember that as foreign interlopers arrive to peck at the carcass and go Mahdi Death Cult on the survivors...

Hell is about to be filled up with more than just Americans...the ripple-effect is going to epic, too bad we won't be alive to point and snort "I told you so"...

People are never careful about what they wish for...and I no longer have to be careful towards them...

Idiots think this will usher in global nirvana...and, are people going to be rudely shocked...it merely will exponentially up the meat-grinder...

Propagandists say nothing can be done to avoid it...forcing the worst of the prophecy to be fulfilled by laziness, stupidity and fatalism.

The most shameful thing is not even trying...

I never got that impression. That things would improve?
 Many people said that as a result of US over playing their sanctions the rest of the world would start to de-dollarize, avoid SWIFT, etc and that would be bad for US.
I noticed that China, much of middle east, and Africa re snubbing the US in public. Did you notice the Putin reception recently in UAE/Saudi?  Things might improve in these places.  US/EU will get worse.

Uhh huh, how is China going to replace American trade that pulled them out of the backwater 3rd world nation they were that enabled them to become a global military power?  The rest of the world cannot hope to fill that large a gap...and no nation is going to repeat that mistake if they have a choice...  The most populous nation - India - are they going to subordinate their own economy to save China?  80% of their economy is mom & pop businesses...couldn't do that without effectively eliminating a vast majority of their citizens.  Which means one clear thing...with America effectively gone, the Chinese military machine will run roughshod over the globe, starting with the Pacific basin...

Yes, America will be gone, celebrations will rage...and then their suffering begins...

And then, how long will Russia be able to keep the ravenous Panda at bay...?

Oh well, sh*t happens...

When Rome fell most of Europe and Western Asia plunged into the Dark Ages...the fall of America will have much much more severe consequences...

But hey, why ruin the party...

As I say, I do not understand intl finance. China has a growing internal market maybe? They seem to loan money for Chinese made projects and make money off that. China seems to be the only country that can make RR stuff cheap and fast.

EU vacated Russian markets making room for China. I heard that most St. Pete taxis were now Chinese. Russia sells natural resources and Chinese sells consumer goods. Russia v China conflict? Who knows. I heard about a recent big deal between RU and China near Harbin and that province.

Robert A Heinlein always wrote about the Chinee half of Australia. I recall  video of some Chinese share croppers in Siberia? Some video went into why Chinese would be more interested in other regions. There was  dispute over Mongolia but Stalin refused to make a move even when China was weak. Now mineral wealth discovered. There was a dispute over some islands in the Amur River, worthless to both. RU gave some back to save face for Chinese.

China always struck me as too business oriented. They will throw their weight around near their borders. Gulf of MX was an American Lake. South China Sea will be a Chinese Lake.

Internal markets cannot lift that much, not without a lot of subsidies...which would devalue the remimbi...

And I am sorry to say there is no Lake equivalence possible...unless we place a breakaway American republic off the coast of Texas on a similarly sized island and say it is OK if mainland America takes it by brutal force...for the sake of argument let us say it is MAGA Island filled with free people in a free society with an ethical and functional republican government...and the mainland American government is totalitarian...

You'd be OK with annihilating MAGA Island and ruling over the remnants?

[patentlymn]

Best thing that can happen?  Ghoulish.  Some deserve blame more than others...something this ghoul doesn't even care to address, but to be fair every element in the world today that hates America also passes sentence on the plural...

Remember that as the horror commences, remember that as foreign interlopers arrive to peck at the carcass and go Mahdi Death Cult on the survivors...

Hell is about to be filled up with more than just Americans...the ripple-effect is going to epic, too bad we won't be alive to point and snort "I told you so"...

People are never careful about what they wish for...and I no longer have to be careful towards them...

Idiots think this will usher in global nirvana...and, are people going to be rudely shocked...it merely will exponentially up the meat-grinder...

Propagandists say nothing can be done to avoid it...forcing the worst of the prophecy to be fulfilled by laziness, stupidity and fatalism.

The most shameful thing is not even trying...

I never got that impression. That things would improve?
 Many people said that as a result of US over playing their sanctions the rest of the world would start to de-dollarize, avoid SWIFT, etc and that would be bad for US.
I noticed that China, much of middle east, and Africa re snubbing the US in public. Did you notice the Putin reception recently in UAE/Saudi?  Things might improve in these places.  US/EU will get worse.

Uhh huh, how is China going to replace American trade that pulled them out of the backwater 3rd world nation they were that enabled them to become a global military power?  The rest of the world cannot hope to fill that large a gap...and no nation is going to repeat that mistake if they have a choice...  The most populous nation - India - are they going to subordinate their own economy to save China?  80% of their economy is mom & pop businesses...couldn't do that without effectively eliminating a vast majority of their citizens.  Which means one clear thing...with America effectively gone, the Chinese military machine will run roughshod over the globe, starting with the Pacific basin...

Yes, America will be gone, celebrations will rage...and then their suffering begins...

And then, how long will Russia be able to keep the ravenous Panda at bay...?

Oh well, sh*t happens...

When Rome fell most of Europe and Western Asia plunged into the Dark Ages...the fall of America will have much much more severe consequences...

But hey, why ruin the party...

As I say, I do not understand intl finance. China has a growing internal market maybe? They seem to loan money for Chinese made projects and make money off that. China seems to be the only country that can make RR stuff cheap and fast.

EU vacated Russian markets making room for China. I heard that most St. Pete taxis were now Chinese. Russia sells natural resources and Chinese sells consumer goods. Russia v China conflict? Who knows. I heard about a recent big deal between RU and China near Harbin and that province.

Robert A Heinlein always wrote about the Chinee half of Australia. I recall  video of some Chinese share croppers in Siberia? Some video went into why Chinese would be more interested in other regions. There was  dispute over Mongolia but Stalin refused to make a move even when China was weak. Now mineral wealth discovered. There was a dispute over some islands in the Amur River, worthless to both. RU gave some back to save face for Chinese.

China always struck me as too business oriented. They will throw their weight around near their borders. Gulf of MX was an American Lake. South China Sea will be a Chinese Lake.

Internal markets cannot lift that much, not without a lot of subsidies...which would devalue the remimbi...

And I am sorry to say there is no Lake equivalence possible...unless we place a breakaway American republic off the coast of Texas on a similarly sized island and say it is OK if mainland America takes it by brutal force...for the sake of argument let us say it is MAGA Island filled with free people in a free society with an ethical and functional republican government...and the mainland American government is totalitarian...

You'd be OK with annihilating MAGA Island and ruling over the remnants?

When the US was rising we had our Monroe doctrine and I expect China to have theirs. US grabbed Cuba, and while were at it, Philippines, for  while. I'm glad we grabbed Hawaii. Someone would why not us? China grabbed Tibet for strategic reasons. Someone would why not them they said. Seriously they said that.

US mucked around in Latin America a lot. Not saying good or bad just really happened. China seems to be taking over Latin America wo firing a shot through commerce. IMO greedy and shrewd.

[Libertas]

Best thing that can happen?  Ghoulish.  Some deserve blame more than others...something this ghoul doesn't even care to address, but to be fair every element in the world today that hates America also passes sentence on the plural...

Remember that as the horror commences, remember that as foreign interlopers arrive to peck at the carcass and go Mahdi Death Cult on the survivors...

Hell is about to be filled up with more than just Americans...the ripple-effect is going to epic, too bad we won't be alive to point and snort "I told you so"...

People are never careful about what they wish for...and I no longer have to be careful towards them...

Idiots think this will usher in global nirvana...and, are people going to be rudely shocked...it merely will exponentially up the meat-grinder...

Propagandists say nothing can be done to avoid it...forcing the worst of the prophecy to be fulfilled by laziness, stupidity and fatalism.

The most shameful thing is not even trying...

I never got that impression. That things would improve?
 Many people said that as a result of US over playing their sanctions the rest of the world would start to de-dollarize, avoid SWIFT, etc and that would be bad for US.
I noticed that China, much of middle east, and Africa re snubbing the US in public. Did you notice the Putin reception recently in UAE/Saudi?  Things might improve in these places.  US/EU will get worse.

Uhh huh, how is China going to replace American trade that pulled them out of the backwater 3rd world nation they were that enabled them to become a global military power?  The rest of the world cannot hope to fill that large a gap...and no nation is going to repeat that mistake if they have a choice...  The most populous nation - India - are they going to subordinate their own economy to save China?  80% of their economy is mom & pop businesses...couldn't do that without effectively eliminating a vast majority of their citizens.  Which means one clear thing...with America effectively gone, the Chinese military machine will run roughshod over the globe, starting with the Pacific basin...

Yes, America will be gone, celebrations will rage...and then their suffering begins...

And then, how long will Russia be able to keep the ravenous Panda at bay...?

Oh well, sh*t happens...

When Rome fell most of Europe and Western Asia plunged into the Dark Ages...the fall of America will have much much more severe consequences...

But hey, why ruin the party...

As I say, I do not understand intl finance. China has a growing internal market maybe? They seem to loan money for Chinese made projects and make money off that. China seems to be the only country that can make RR stuff cheap and fast.

EU vacated Russian markets making room for China. I heard that most St. Pete taxis were now Chinese. Russia sells natural resources and Chinese sells consumer goods. Russia v China conflict? Who knows. I heard about a recent big deal between RU and China near Harbin and that province.

Robert A Heinlein always wrote about the Chinee half of Australia. I recall  video of some Chinese share croppers in Siberia? Some video went into why Chinese would be more interested in other regions. There was  dispute over Mongolia but Stalin refused to make a move even when China was weak. Now mineral wealth discovered. There was a dispute over some islands in the Amur River, worthless to both. RU gave some back to save face for Chinese.

China always struck me as too business oriented. They will throw their weight around near their borders. Gulf of MX was an American Lake. South China Sea will be a Chinese Lake.

Internal markets cannot lift that much, not without a lot of subsidies...which would devalue the remimbi...

And I am sorry to say there is no Lake equivalence possible...unless we place a breakaway American republic off the coast of Texas on a similarly sized island and say it is OK if mainland America takes it by brutal force...for the sake of argument let us say it is MAGA Island filled with free people in a free society with an ethical and functional republican government...and the mainland American government is totalitarian...

You'd be OK with annihilating MAGA Island and ruling over the remnants?

When the US was rising we had our Monroe doctrine and I expect China to have theirs. US grabbed Cuba, and while were at it, Philippines, for  while. I'm glad we grabbed Hawaii. Someone would why not us? China grabbed Tibet for strategic reasons. Someone would why not them they said. Seriously they said that.

US mucked around in Latin America a lot. Not saying good or bad just really happened. China seems to be taking over Latin America wo firing a shot through commerce. IMO greedy and shrewd.

So that's a "yes".