Author Topic: Obama NASA Head + Congress * Future = Huh?  (Read 1918 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Obama NASA Head + Congress * Future = Huh?
« on: July 13, 2011, 12:31:35 PM »
NASA's glory days are all in the review mirror...

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/07/13/congress-grills-nasa-chief-over-next-big-rocket-design/?test=latestnews

Sucks to be Bolden.

Probably sucks to be a NASA employee too.

After the shuttle goes what will they say their mission is and how will they justify their payroll?

We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline rickl

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Re: Obama NASA Head + Congress * Future = Huh?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2011, 06:29:03 PM »
The thing that worries me is that Congress will require NASA to build a giant, hugely expensive rocket for which no market or mission exists.  Their main concern is preserving jobs in their districts.

NASA's mission should involve developing advanced technology which can then be used by private industry.  That's what the agency's predecessor, NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) did for the aviation industry.  They could also focus on space science and deep space probes, which are not profitable for private industry.

NASA should not be designing and building rockets, and neither should Congress.  We have plenty of rockets.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 06:40:50 PM by rickl »
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
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Offline rickl

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Re: Obama NASA Head + Congress * Future = Huh?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2011, 06:34:09 PM »
I should also point out that Obama did not kill the Space Shuttle.  Its phase-out was already planned in the wake of the Columbia disaster, and occurred during the Bush administration.  (Yes, he really did inherit that from Bush.)   ;D

What Obama cancelled was NASA's follow-on program, Constellation, aka "Apollo on Steroids".  It was already insanely over budget and behind schedule.  Many space buffs applauded the cancellation.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline Libertas

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Re: Obama NASA Head + Congress * Future = Huh?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 10:14:24 PM »
This to me is the logical progression of a government program begun with a good idea and a single focus (get free people to space and to the moon first) that morphed into a bureaucracy in search of a purpose and signed off on a oversold expensive follow on (shuttle) and now is in deep yogurt in these tough budgetary times.  NASA should be massively downsized to a tracking and communications and inexpensive robotic missions role and let the private sector take the lead in space-lift and manned expeditions.  The latter can do it more cost effectively and without the bureaucracy and politics.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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Re: Obama NASA Head + Congress * Future = Huh?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 01:18:29 PM »
I think we should have more private access to space, and a total divestment from NASA of our strategic/military interests in space. That should instead be a completely organic capability of the military, either back to the USAF as it was in the very early days, or possibly even the eventual creation of an entire new branch of the Armed Forces -- the US Space Force? Many science-fiction universes refer to space-based armed forces as navies, and I think it's a sound analogy when you consider the similarities: projecting power over vast distances, across featureless voids, the need to carry with you everything you might need, etc. The Navy is probably a better template for an eventual spaceborne service than is the Air Force.

I find it illustrative to watch the film 2001. Made in 1968, it captures a lot of that era's assumptions about the future of humanity in space, and one of the more interesting portrayals is that of private business in space. Dr. Floyd traveled from a station floating in Earth orbit -- which had its own Howard Johnson's hotel -- to the moon via a PanAm spaceliner, using navigational and telemetry systems made by IBM. It was an extrapolation of the airline industry, projected into space travel. And I think its vision of the then-future is not that farfetched at all, and we would probably be a lot closer to it by now if space exploration had not remained a virtual monopoly under NASA's purview for the intervening four decades.
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Offline rickl

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Re: Obama NASA Head + Congress * Future = Huh?
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 06:07:07 PM »
Bingo, Glock.

My only quibble is that the PanAm spaceliner was the passenger shuttle between Earth and the station.  They boarded a lunar landing vehicle for the trip to the Moon.  Then the ship that took the astronauts to Jupiter was designed for long-distance interplanetary voyages.  This illustrates another point:  There needs to be various kinds of specialized spacecraft for different functions, rather than a single type that does a little bit of everything, but not anything very well.  That was one of the Space Shuttle's problems.  Since it was NASA's only manned spacecraft, they tried to make it do too much, which increased its size, complexity, and cost.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline rickl

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Re: Obama NASA Head + Congress * Future = Huh?
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 06:45:01 PM »
Here's a nice slideshow showing SpaceX's Cape Canaveral facilities.  Hat tip NASASpaceflight.com.

Inside SpaceX: A Hint of Life After the Space Shuttle

In other news, on Wednesday SpaceX held the groundbreaking ceremony for their launch pad at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.  There's also word that they're looking at some property on the Gulf Coast of Texas.  No one knows for sure, but there is speculation that they might be thinking of building their own private launch facility there.  They already have an engine testing site elsewhere in Texas.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

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Online benb61

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Re: Obama NASA Head + Congress * Future = Huh?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 09:02:34 PM »
We are still exploring our little area around the sun and explorers were always funded by governments.  Some pioneers would set off on their own without big money support and were usually lost but those that had the backing of government usually survived.  NASA needs to be this government backing.  Once the pioneers are finished with our local area then comes the settlers, these people usually sold off everything they owned to settle a new place.  The explorers and pioneers usually came back with maps and information to make the settlers jobs easier, however with space a whole lot of money is needed to get there and unless there is a there to get to, no one will be settling. obamas decision to kill Constellation was in essence the death of settlers opportunities because Constellation would have developed a settlement on the moon and have led to entrepreneurs further developing the moon. His hatred of anything Bush did causing him to dismantle Constellation has in fact set the explorer/pioneer/settler paradigm back 20 to 30 years or more.  The moon, as inhospitable as it is would have been the perfect place for space entrepreneurs to develop new technologies.  It's not so far from earth that rescue/return is not impossible and it is a harsher environment that would have been a great locale to test out the tech that would allow survival on Mars.  If we would have kept Constellation there would have been a moon base by 2025 (which could have been a millionaires vacation spot) that could have grown to be a nice colony in 20 to 30 years.  As competition for seats to orbit would grow the price would start to come down and even though flights to orbit would still be pricey more people would be able to afford it.  Remember in the early days of airlines only the rich could fly, now anyone can, and eventually space could become similar.
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Offline rickl

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Re: Obama NASA Head + Congress * Future = Huh?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2011, 09:19:34 PM »
You're right; the time has come to start settling space.  The exploration period is over, at least in the inner solar system.

But Constellation would have been a monstrous waste of money and would have only allowed a handful of government employees to go into space, same as with the Shuttle.  Its basic function would have been to keep the vast NASA workforce employed, and pork flowing to certain Congressional districts.  Good riddance to it.

If we're going to lower the cost of space flight, one of the things that will be necessary is to simplify the launch systems so that they require fewer ground support personnel.  NASA and Congress have no interest in doing that.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt