Topics > TEOTWAWKI
A discussion of priorities: prepping/generators/ham radio
Pandora:
A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 14, 2010, 7:50pm
In the case of some societal upheaval:
You've prepped and put aside for your own family and now you are faced with the sight of others around you who haven't done so, what do you do?
Do you share with other's children what you put aside for your own?
Do you feed your husband more than yourself because he needs his strength to get the hard work done, in the interest of survial of the wife AND kids?
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 14, 2010, 8:12pm
A short term societal upheaval would look like the LA riots. A long term SU would continue from that point.
Who would restore order and how would they do it. While restoring order would they be able to identify you as an "orderly" and if so would it matter to their overall mission.
I think a "survival plan" would contemplate leaving the city for short and long term.
Where to go and what to take.
That's step one of my plan.
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 14, 2010, 8:35pm
If you have family outside the house you need to take that into consideration.By family it would include friends.
I've been prepping for a long time a little at a time.I have weapons,ammo, food and water. Water is my week point but if I see trouble heading my way I live 5 minutes from a Sams warehouse.
Generator(10,000 kw) is the garage can store up to 80 gals. of fuel and not to forget fuel conditioner todays fuel goes bad too fast for long term storage without conditioner.I also have a clean 35 gal metal barrel for additional fuel. My friends near by are also well stocked or have the ability to load up real quick.
My family has the means to get to me and I have the room to make it work. Depending where the problems are is what decides who goes where.
We all have full size pick ups to get us and what we need around.We all have all the tools we need to take care of ourselves.
As time goes by I'll rethink it as I'm always doing.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 14, 2010, 8:36pm
Pan "Yes, nolan; I see what you mean about the kids. It'd be easier for you to watch them all slowly decline together, if it came to that."
Did I misread that?Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by Pandora on Apr 14, 2010, 9:35pm
No, nolan, you didn't, but it wasn't meant cruelly. It's harsh, I know, but food for thought.
There's a school of religious thought that espouses one does the best one can and then prays for God to provide. I'm thinking that's probably right, depending on what one believes, so the question becomes: what, then, does God provide? A quick trip, a slow trip, to one's final reward, and that's just the way it goes?
Does one take care of one's own, because that's one's responsibility - ONE'S OWN - helping others when the help can be spared, but not at the expense of your own? Or shelter all that you can, depleting one's resources, in the end helping more but for less time?
These are pertinent questions; don't be mad, nolan.
Pandora:
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 14, 2010, 9:49pm
Apr 14, 2010, 9:35pm, Pandora wrote:
No, nolan, you didn't, but it wasn't meant cruelly. It's harsh, I know, but food for thought.
There's a school of religious thought that espouses one does the best one can and then prays for God to provide. I'm thinking that's probably right, depending on what one believes, so the question becomes: what, then, does God provide? A quick trip, a slow trip, to one's final reward, and that's just the way it goes?
Does one take care of one's own, because that's one's responsibility - ONE'S OWN - helping others when the help can be spared, but not at the expense of your own? Or shelter all that you can, depleting one's resources, in the end helping more but for less time?
These are pertinent questions; don't be mad, nolan.
Fair questions but my feelings are that I take care of those that can contribute. I don't need liabilities.
Grasshopper and the Ant comes to mind.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 14, 2010, 9:59pm
No, no, not mad. Not trying to pick a fight (I don't think you are/were either).
And yes, I considered the angles. You may recall how much thought I've given other stuff.
And no, no single aspect of it will be easier than any other. NO decision will ever be an easy one under those circumstances.
I do have a plan for the neighborhood, they just don't know it yet!
Roughly, join together (safety in numbers may be the single most important maxim), pool resources (socialism is a necessity at times like that) and start hitting the grocery and hardware stores. I believe there'll be firearms around before too long. Enough to make a difference.
But membership would be limited to those who will row away from the rocks, or at least have something to offer. I don't think I'll have much patience for ostriches.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 14, 2010, 10:17pm
Look at the videos from LA, family will be the only thing you have.
It will be an ultimate stress situation and in order to survive things must go according to your plan. You will be a minority. As far as, other than family: If you have been in a situation such as canoeing down a rapid, said person w/o a life jacket and the boat spills, you may be able to predict how that person will react (discounting the variables of children and spouses).
This subject is societal upheaval, look at the videos from the LA riots and make plans to leave the city. If you are the only one on the block with water and food you are no longer a human you are "the warehouse".
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by alphabetsoup on Apr 14, 2010, 10:30pm
There are days when I wonder if I truly want to be a survivor, but when the rubber meets the bricks I know how I'm wired.
I had made plans for my little family and they carry forward, but without quite the same purpose now. Before I had to concern myself about both defense as well as offense and now I can concentrate on the offense.
I have enough supplies to last a year. I've assembled a field surgical kit and bought supplemental books on triage and disaster first aid. My place is set up to accommodate 8-10 people for an extended period in decent comfort.
Contingency plans for the impending collapse have been roughed out and my brothers and I go over them, refining them constantly.
I anticipate that there is going to be considerable....unrest....and I am poised to respond appropriately. The gear is oiled, primed, and ready.
Let the games begin...
Pandora:
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by irondiopriest on Apr 14, 2010, 11:32pm
I urge everyone to READ THIS. It's a bit long, but it is a vital, first-hand observation of what one Argentinian experienced when his society and economy broke down.
A few snippets to whet your appetites...
"Someone once asked me how did those that live in the country fare. If they were better off than city dwellers. As always there are no simple answers. Wish I could say country good, city bad, but I can’t, because if I have to be completely honest, and I intend to be so, there are some issues that have to be analyzed, especially security...."
"Those that live in cities, well they have to manage as they can. Since food prices went up about 200%-300%. People would cut expenses wherever they could so they could buy food. Some ate whatever they could; they hunted birds or ate street dogs and cats, others starved. When it comes to food, cities suck in a crisis. It is usually the lack of food or the impossibility to acquire it that starts the rioting and looting when TSHTF...."
"When it comes to security things get even more complicated. Forget about shooting those that mean you harm from 300 yards away with your MBR. Leave that notion to armchair commandos and 12 year old kids that pretend to be grown ups on the internet.
Some facts:
1) Those that want to harm you/steal from you don’t come with a pirate flag waving over their heads.
2) Neither do they start shooting at you 200 yards away.
3) They won’t come riding loud bikes or dressed with their orange, convict just escaped from prison jump suits, so that you can identify them the better. Nor do they all wear chains around their necks and leather jackets. If I had a dollar for each time a person that got robbed told me “They looked like NORMAL people, dressed better than we are”, honestly, I would have enough money for a nice gun. There are exceptions, but don’t expect them to dress like in the movies.
4) A man with a wife and two or three kids can’t set up a watch. I don’t care if you are SEAL, SWAT or John Freaking Rambo, no 6th sense is going to tell you that there is a guy pointing a gun at your back when you are trying to fix the water pump that just broke, or carrying a big heavy bag of dried beans you bought that morning...."
"So, where to go? The concrete jungle is dangerous and so is living away from it all, on your own. The solution is to stay away from the cities but in groups, either by living in a small town-community or sub division, or if you have friends or family that think as you do, form your own small community. Some may think that having neighbors within “shouting” distance means loosing your privacy and freedom, but it’s a price that you have to pay if you want to have someone to help you if you ever need it. To those that believe that they will never need help from anyone because they will always have their rifle at hand, checking the horizon with their scope every five minutes and a first aid kit on their back packs at all times…. Grow up...."
Much, much, much more at the link...Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by nolan on Apr 15, 2010, 9:03am
I wish to hell I had neighbors like you, Soup. Out-fittting for a year isn't in the budget, the CFO is only hafl-way on board and she needs to accomplish what she needs to do. Keeping this roof over our heads and the kids fed, etc. She indulges me to no small degree, but only so far. It's a slight bone of contention.
CO, your point about being the 'warehouse' is valid, and I don't intend to let myself be swamped. I'll be quick on the trigger as the situation warrants, neighbor's kids be damned. Uf I can sign them up to my way, then great.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 15, 2010, 9:47am
Apr 15, 2010, 9:03am, nolan wrote:
I wish to hell I had neighbors like you, Soup. Out-fittting for a year isn't in the budget, the CFO is only hafl-way on board and she needs to accomplish what she needs to do. Keeping this roof over our heads and the kids fed, etc. She indulges me to no small degree, but only so far. It's a slight bone of contention.
CO, your point about being the 'warehouse' is valid, and I don't intend to let myself be swamped. I'll be quick on the trigger as the situation warrants, neighbor's kids be damned. Uf I can sign them up to my way, then great.
Nolan you don't have to invest your lungs all at once. I started with dry goods Pasta(of course)Rice,Beans of all types canned Tomatoes I have 4 ases of just those.
Rotate the goods so you always update and it doesn't go out of date. I just bought Rice on sale for 1 dollar I got 3 pounds of rice so I go 5 dollars worth it starts a dollar at a time and it takes time.
Watch the papers sale fliers are your friend. For meats I just bought boneless skinless chicken breasts for 1.69 a pound I buy when I don't need so when I do it's price that drives me.I went big on the chicken I spent 33 dollars for 20 pounds of chicken.
Veggies because I don't like canned(personal thing) I buy the few that I will eat frozen so I'm limited to Peas and corn.
Back to the neighbor/friend thing There are three of us here that compliment each other.Bob has hand guns he owns a .32,.357 Mag.and a .45 acp. He also has a back up generators in case mine craps out and he also has the ability to store over 100 gals of fuel plus food stores not as big as mine but he has a lot to bring to the party(not to mention he was Special Forces in Nam) on the other side I have George with a 500 Gal propane tank and a load of food to add to the party He's in his 70s and a world of mechanical knowledge to keep us going.
He also has a 17 kw generator and can store another 100 plus gals.of fuel and a tough old bird.
If we all moved into one house at a time and we all have enough room for the others we could last on Generators for a hell of a long time and still be able to go out and buy what we could and extend the time as we need but we have a big leg up on the rest of the idiots we live around.
Pandora:
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 15, 2010, 11:19am
-->"Anyway, a city that goes without gas and light for more than two weeks is a death trap, get out of there before it’s too late."<--Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by libertasinfinitio on Apr 15, 2010, 11:51am
I and my brother initiated an emergency plan a couple years ago. We identified the stuff we already have on our own (guns, ammo, generators etc) and stuff we needed to get (food, water & first aid supplies etc). By requiring monthly contributions for family members who wish to participate we are able to buy in bulk that which we need. We buy food we can store for long periods, stuff like that. Pretty much all set, just need to pick up some water filtration units and a few other items. We have a bug-out plan to flee the cities in case TSHTF and have a lake home out in the sticks to go to. We have some like-minded compatriots up there I think we can rely on when the sh*t starts, but with any plan it all depends how much lead time you have and if you can safely get to where you're going! But ya gotta start somewhere and make sure everyone knows what the plan is and how to do it given different circumstances that arise. In the end you have to trust in your preparations and in the good graces of the Almighty to carry you through!Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by alphabetsoup on Apr 15, 2010, 12:00pm
Apr 15, 2010, 11:00am, Pandora wrote:
Jeez, IDP; body armor? That's how bad it is there.
What he describes sounds to me like life here to an extent, in the inner-city, right now, save the food shortages.
Yep, body armor.
I live in the shadow of one of the most leftist cities in America. Due to my work I am acquainted with the limitations and general attitude of our local law enforcement, city & county governance, and the general infrastructure. My takeaway is that they are almost totally unprepared for civil unrest and will likely be completely overrun within three days. I expect a human wave of misery to emanate outwards from the epicenter of stupidity and have no desire to interact - especially on their terms.
My contingency plans center around drawing my folks in at the outset of hostilities, withdrawing from the community as much as possible, and maintaining a fortress profile.
I anticipate two main scenarios;
1. Governmental interference.
As things go bad the inclination to present a heavy-handed and ruthless presence on the part of local authorities is irresistible. My hope is to avoid them like the plague because nothing good can come from such an exchange.
I expect them to try to disarm us and I will not comply.
2. Zombie hordes.
I have identified the ingress & egress, the choke-points, and the vantage points for a 5-mile perimeter. When TSHTF there will be tens of thousands who will quickly exhaust their meager resources, and the equally meager resources provided by (or not) the government. Hungry, angry, unbound by allegiance to reason or rule of law, they will begin fanning out in search of whatever.
I have some funny notions about stuff, and one of them is "What's mine is mine". If I choose to share it it's because I consciously chose, not because I was compelled to do so.
So defense - have any of you ever explored an old fort? When I was a kid I got the chance to visit the Castillo De San Marcos in St Augustine Florida. What a cool place!
One of the things I learned was the layers of defense. There were advance fortifications where archers, pikemen, and swordsmen could take cover and repel advancing troops. If necessary, and at a certain point a signal would be given and the pikemen or archers would withdraw from those advanced fortifications to an inner wall to continue the fight. There were even more fortifications within that ring to use if needed.
My contingency plans are constructed similarly. I don't have a castle with heavy fortifications, but I do have a choke-point where I can restrict access and repel invaders. I have identified a progressive series of blinds and vantage points in the surrounding community where I can mount my fight. The idea is to take the fight out of my neighborhood if at all possible. If a fight is unavoidable, why sacrifice my sanctuary?
Ultimately the possibility exists where I am force to defend my immediate property. There isn't a whole lot that can be done to fortify a suburban household, but you'd be surprised at what can be done.
I've installed some "decorative" landscaping stones to protect the front entry. Now a SWAT team cannot simply drive through my front door (as was the case before). Some pretty bushes also provide incidental cover most of the year.
An alarm system alerts me when someone enters my driveway. A modestly priced security camera system allows me to check out the perimeter of my property and the outbuildings. There are no longer any blind spots surrounding the house - unless you disable the cameras in which case the standing order is to shoot anything that moves.
I installed a drop-bar for the front & back doors that trebles their strength. They can still be penetrated but with much effort and precious additional time - for me to prepare for an assault. Weapons are secreted (securely thank you!) in more than one location so that the possibility of being separated from my defensive capabilities are limited.
Still, it's a house not a fortress. Should an assault occur it means that the place is compromised and will ultimately be breached. I have identified two escape routes and am working on contingency plans to have vehicles stationed nearby for a fast getaway.
I'm still working out fallback plans for abandoning the family farm...
edit: altard proofed
Pandora:
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by libertasinfinitio on Apr 15, 2010, 12:16pm
Heh, 3 days? Sounds optimistic to me, but you know your area better so I'll defer to your judgement, but where I am (for work) it will be overrun in 3 hours. Hence my own big challenge is to GTFO of here in one piece. All I gotta say is I'm not waiting very long, even a hint of trouble and I'm scootin'!
As far as fortification goes, that's the next phase for my clan, sounds like I'm a little behind you, although I have some preliminary actions ready to implement and others that need to be worked out.
Some body armor isn't a bad idea.
ETA - If this is a long-term kinda deal, then the survivng pockets will have no other choice than to conduct trade via the time-honored barter system, be sure you have something worth trading, watch out for stray zombies, and don't go trusting people who haven't earned it!Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by johnflorida on Apr 15, 2010, 12:50pm
Apr 15, 2010, 10:57am, Pandora wrote:
What kind of fuel in 100 plus gals., JF?
Gas for generators. But we only have to run one at a time for refrigerrationa nd cook tops when needed and we can make hot water for showers. Don't forget one of the guys has 500 gals. of propane, Between us we can store over 300 gals. of gas.Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by charlesoakwood on Apr 15, 2010, 12:56pm
--->"Heh, 3 days? Sounds optimistic to me, but you know your area better so I'll defer to your judgement, but where I am (for work) it will be overrun in 3 hours. Hence my own big challenge is to GTFO of here in one piece. All I gotta say is I'm not waiting very long, even a hint of trouble and I'm scootin'!"<---
Yes, the very first thing is to recognize that it is happening, if one waits until the answer is delivered to them it is too late. The masses will come to conclusion simultainiously. It will be spontainious. One must consider the exits. What is rush hour traffic like? Traffic will be worse when everybody gets the answer. The bigger the city the worse the problem. One must recognize the event is proximal. I allow myself 15 minutes.
If you do not recognize it 15 minutes before the event you will be in deepness.
Re: A Discussion of Priorities
Post by alphabetsoup on Apr 15, 2010, 1:08pm
All of the various SHTF scenarios share a common bond - breakdown in the social order - but otherwise diverge in terms of inception and scope. If they dropped a hydrogen bomb on my house the inception would be rather abrupt :o
Most scenarios are more along the Katrina - a natural calamity that interrupts the normal course of commerce. They can be as mild as a snowfall that makes the roads impassable for a few days to an earthquake that shatters everything and renders it all rubble.
I can't anticipate every alternative since they are too manifold to contemplate, but I can plan for typical contingencies - the sorts of things that my local environment holds as possible to probable scenarios.
Needless to say, we have had many conversations around the dinner table and campfire!
You bring up another excellent point when you mention escaping in one piece. Because my state is ruled by dhimmicrats (and has been for 22 years), the infrastructure is in poor condition, and overtaxed. As a result I have made a study of every pathway in & out of any area I tend to go. Since gridlock is an unfortunate fact of life I always know what options I have for getting where I need to go.
You probably know me - or know people like me. Some might (and have) called me paranoid, but I am the one who parks his vehicle with purpose, not just convenience. I'm the guy who chooses where he sits in a room so that nothing occurs without my knowing it. I'm also the guy who doesn't freak out when I encounter an accident scene.
I was the guy who sought out infant CPR when my child was born. I'm the guy who has carried the industrial first aid card for twenty years. I'm the sort who considers the possibilities instead of waiting and reacting.
I'm the good little boy scout.
I learned it from my papa. While others may read something like this and ponder why someone would be thinking so extremely, my papa taught me to consider the possibilities up front so that they wouldn't surprise me when they happen.
My boot camp was in the guise of camping trips. For us it was all play, but the lessons in self-sufficiency carried over into everything (well almost everything) in my life. I've learned the hard way that there are some things you just can't fix.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version