Author Topic: Major league rift went down at RedState  (Read 10450 times)

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Major league rift went down at RedState
« on: February 25, 2011, 08:11:42 PM »
I missed the drama somehow - probably because I don't really "dig in" there very often, and usually just read the front page. But something huge went down there, and a whole bunch of long-time, very gifted contributors got the ban-hammer.

I wish them the best as they move forward after this turmoil. Their site is an important part of the conservative blogosphere, and always worth a read.

These two threads and their comments will give an idea of what happened and who was involved, if'n yer interested, that is...

An Explanation

Vassar Bushmills and His Friend, Mick Hensley
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Delta Force

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 08:33:23 PM »
Cliques can become a real bee eye itch.  I spend a fair amount of time at Red State because they have some good information.  I do mostly stay on the front page because I don't care to play some of the games that were talked about.  We all need to realize when we are being childish, and correct those actions.

Offline trapeze

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 11:02:52 PM »
I always miss out on the action.

Oh well.  I haven't spent as much time at RedState since the election ended.  I've been at other places when I have had the time to spend on this sort of thing.

I do agree with one of the points made in that first  post...you would only see the same names on the front page...almost never was someone promoted to the front page from a diary.  That's one of the reasons that I thought of promoting our site on theirs.  At least here you can start a topic and write as much as you like.  I don't know if we ever got anyone to join from there, though.

A lesson to be learned is that the ban hammer is a very dangerous tool and should never be used frivolously.  An extreme example of that would be the LGF maniac.  Ah well...
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 11:44:40 PM »
I don't know if we ever got anyone to join from there, though.

I don't remember if it was RedState, but a comments section on one of those sites is how I found this forum. So it does work!
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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2011, 01:43:40 AM »
Been there, done that, got the war wounds.
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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2011, 02:29:37 AM »
The fallout won't be on just them, though.  Others will take sides and still others will take sides with the ones taking sides.  Fracturing, fracturing.

Human behavior just sucks as a rule, framing those few fleeting moments of nobility.
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Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2011, 06:19:25 AM »
I have visited Red State on occasion and have left comments. I forget the issue, but I made some comment that was ill-received by the "clique" on one occasion and the response seemed a bit strange to me. That left a bad taste in my mouth for those folks over there. I remember being personally attacked for posting my opinion regarding some issue. On a Conservative Issue forum.

Strange.
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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2011, 07:14:57 AM »
I'm having a hard time imagining any confrontation that would lead to the banning of Vassar Bushmills. His commentary was often lifted from the diaries to the front page, and he is a very gifted writer, and from everything I remember, a very articulate, strong conservative.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline rickl

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2011, 07:26:07 AM »
Quote
I remember being personally attacked for posting my opinion regarding some issue. On a Conservative Issue forum.

Uh huh.
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Offline rickl

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2011, 07:57:30 AM »
Speaking of rifts, I just noticed that pablodefleurs is gone.  What happened?

I tried searching for his most recent posts, but no luck.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2011, 09:02:10 AM »
Speaking of rifts, I just noticed that pablodefleurs is gone.  What happened?

I tried searching for his most recent posts, but no luck.

I asked him to discontinue posting fantasy scenarios under which the President of the United States would be assassinated. Instead of understanding and complying, he chose to delete his account.

There is a history with that guy, for anyone who doesn't know. He was banned 3 or 4 times at powerline, and kept coming back with new usernames, and every time, he escalated until he'd get banned again. Same thing at CT, banned once, was allowed back, and I've no doubt he'd have been banned again. At IAF, I had to ask him a couple times to cool it, and each time he did, he'd escalate again a short time later.

Now it seems as if he believed that a new forum without the proboards ToS was going to be a license to threaten violence and fantasize about the death of the President again. I asked him to stop, hoping he would, and would stay. Apparently he feels the need to find a place where he can make his threats, and apparently I made my point that is was not going to be here.

The guy is a walking contradiction, and wound up tight as a spring. Jesus oozing out his ears on the one hand, total lack of boundaries and self-control on the other. I wish him the best, and I seriously hope he doesn't lose it.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline John Florida

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2011, 09:12:11 AM »
It's a shame to lose anybody but it is what it is. We do need some basis in reality and leave the nonsense to the libs of the world. We have enough to deal with in the hear and now that we don't need to imagine anything. Think Old Jim.
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Offline rickl

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2011, 09:41:45 AM »
Wow, I didn't know about all that history.  I never interacted much with him, though.

When I was looking around IAF for threads to salvage, I found a comment of his that seemed to indicate that he favored the "Young Earth" hypothesis, i.e. that Earth is only a few thousand years old.  Needless to say, I strenuously disagree with that.

I better quit right there before I open up another rift.   ::unknowncomic::
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
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Offline Predator Don

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2011, 09:45:51 AM »
I hear they are looking for new talent at Redstate.
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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2011, 10:02:44 AM »
...When I was looking around IAF for threads to salvage, I found a comment of his that seemed to indicate that he favored the "Young Earth" hypothesis, i.e. that Earth is only a few thousand years old.  Needless to say, I strenuously disagree with that...

I disagree with it too, but not strenuously. It's wasted energy on those who believe it.

Many Christians would strenuously disagree with me, but I think that the Old Testament is a mixture of Jewish history, history with mythological components, messianic prophecy (which I do believe to be God-inspired), and the foundational law upon which our entire civilization is based. I believe that the Old Testament is, in aggregate, a God-inspired compilation that provides us with what God needs us to know about His nature and our relationship to Him, and that literal interpretation of time-lines is not a requirement for God to endow that knowledge upon us.

On the other hand, I believe the New Testament to be a well-supported historical document.

That's a long way of saying that as a Christian, Young-Eartherism is a step too far for me. God doesn't expect us to close our eyes after he went to the trouble on the cross to open them for us.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline rickl

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2011, 10:23:07 AM »
...When I was looking around IAF for threads to salvage, I found a comment of his that seemed to indicate that he favored the "Young Earth" hypothesis, i.e. that Earth is only a few thousand years old.  Needless to say, I strenuously disagree with that...

I disagree with it too, but not strenuously. It's wasted energy on those who believe it.

Many Christians would strenuously disagree with me, but I think that the Old Testament is a mixture of Jewish history, history with mythological components, messianic prophecy (which I do believe to be God-inspired), and the foundational law upon which our entire civilization is based. I believe that the Old Testament is, in aggregate, a God-inspired compilation that provides us with what God needs us to know about His nature and our relationship to Him, and that literal interpretation of time-lines is not a requirement for God to endow that knowledge upon us.

On the other hand, I believe the New Testament to be a well-supported historical document.

That's a long way of saying that as a Christian, Young-Eartherism is a step too far for me. God doesn't expect us to close our eyes after he went to the trouble on the cross to open them for us.

I agree completely with that!  That's a relief.  You wouldn't believe how long I hesitated before posting my last comment, because I really wasn't looking to start a fight.  I wasn't too worried about you reacting negatively, but I didn't know who else might.

There are lots of serious professional scientists, in all disciplines, who are religious believers and have no problem with the evidence showing the Earth and the Universe to be billions of years old.  They don't see a contradiction with their faith.  If I was religious, I'd take it as evidence that God's Creation is even more awesome and magnificent than a literal reading of the first book of Genesis.

Not that there's anything wrong with the first book of Genesis, either.  I see it as part of our cultural and literary history.  The Apollo 8 astronauts read it when they orbited the Moon on Christmas Eve 1968, and that was a memorable event.  I was only 10 years old at the time, but if it was happening today, at age 53, I would still find it moving.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
~ Ann Barnhardt

Offline Magnum

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2011, 10:27:14 AM »
I for one hopes Pablo comes back.  He is a gifted writer and as a Christian myself when it came to his Christian posts especially wrt apologetics……….. I thought they were outstanding.

I did not read the post or post of controversy. I cannot condone or support the assassination of a president, however, I would not be at all upset to see obama removed form office by impeachment……… disgraced and humiliated. I feel he is destroying our American Ideal and to see him being lead out of the office in humiliation would not cause me to lose sleep.

Posting as a Christian is really hard. On one hand we have our sinful nature to contend with, therefore it easy to go off on a subject in an angry, course, and crude manner. And we sometimes have thoughts and feelings that are contradictory to our Christian walk. Jesus talks about righteous anger, the struggle for me………… is the anger justified.  I have to always remember my chief goal in life is try to win as many people over to Yeshua Jesus Christ the only true Messiah as possible (through the power of the Holy Spirit). To be the best example I can be for Him. I want the population of Heaven to increase and the population of Hell to decrease. I really like people. I guess I am what is considered a people person and it pains me greatly to think many will go to hell.  Many times I have to hold my tongue as I do not want to bring disgrace on my Lord and Savior. God forbid if I am the cause of somebody to stumble and reject our Lord.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 10:29:14 AM by Magnum »
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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2011, 10:29:10 AM »
...When I was looking around IAF for threads to salvage, I found a comment of his that seemed to indicate that he favored the "Young Earth" hypothesis, i.e. that Earth is only a few thousand years old.  Needless to say, I strenuously disagree with that...

I disagree with it too, but not strenuously. It's wasted energy on those who believe it.

Many Christians would strenuously disagree with me, but I think that the Old Testament is a mixture of Jewish history, history with mythological components, messianic prophecy (which I do believe to be God-inspired), and the foundational law upon which our entire civilization is based. I believe that the Old Testament is, in aggregate, a God-inspired compilation that provides us with what God needs us to know about His nature and our relationship to Him, and that literal interpretation of time-lines is not a requirement for God to endow that knowledge upon us.

On the other hand, I believe the New Testament to be a well-supported historical document.

That's a long way of saying that as a Christian, Young-Eartherism is a step too far for me. God doesn't expect us to close our eyes after he went to the trouble on the cross to open them for us.

I agree completely with that!  That's a relief.  You wouldn't believe how long I hesitated before posting my last comment, because I really wasn't looking to start a fight.  I wasn't too worried about you reacting negatively, but I didn't know who else might.

There are lots of serious professional scientists, in all disciplines, who are religious believers and have no problem with the evidence showing the Earth and the Universe to be billions of years old.  They don't see a contradiction with their faith.  If I was religious, I'd take it as evidence that God's Creation is even more awesome and magnificent than a literal reading of the first book of Genesis.

Not that there's anything wrong with the first book of Genesis, either.  I see it as part of our cultural and literary history.  The Apollo 8 astronauts read it when they orbited the Moon on Christmas Eve 1968, and that was a memorable event.  I was only 10 years old at the time, but if it was happening today, at age 53, I would still find it moving.

Others may disagree with the both of us, and that's their prerogative - and I'd hope they'd feel comfortable sharing. I think we ought to be able discuss sensitive matters without people getting too upset. I responded to your initial comment because I think it's an interesting subject, and I want us to have interesting discussion - and I wanted you to know that your comment was not out of bounds in any way.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2011, 10:36:36 AM »
...Many times I have to hold my tongue as I do not want to bring disgrace on my Lord and Savior. God forbid if I am the cause of somebody to stumble and reject our Lord.

That is a difference between you and Pablo de Fleurs. I wouldn't accuse him of causing others to stumble - that's God's call to make. But as I said, he was a walking contradiction. Posting eloquently about Christianity on the one hand, and gnashing his teeth like a demon on the other.

Being human, we all will contradict the spirit of Christ in us from time to time. When we do, we recognize it, and seek God's help to avoid doing so in the future. Pablo embraces his hatred in both fists, and when he is not teaching about Christ, he is wailing and gnashing his teeth.

All I asked him to do was dial it down a notch, for the sake of us all. He chose to remove himself from the community, and I am not displeased that he did.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Major league rift went down at RedState
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2011, 10:47:52 AM »
I for one hopes Pablo comes back.  He is a gifted writer and as a Christian myself when it came to his Christian posts especially wrt apologetics……….. I thought they were outstanding.

I did not read the post or post of controversy. I cannot condone or support the assassination of a president, however, I would not be at all upset to see obama removed form office by impeachment……… disgraced and humiliated. I feel he is destroying our American Ideal and to see him being lead out of the office in humiliation would not cause me to lose sleep.

Posting as a Christian is really hard. On one hand we have our sinful nature to contend with, therefore it easy to go off on a subject in an angry, course, and crude manner. And we sometimes have thoughts and feelings that are contradictory to our Christian walk. Jesus talks about righteous anger, the struggle for me………… is the anger justified.  I have to always remember my chief goal in life is try to win as many people over to Yeshua Jesus Christ the only true Messiah as possible (through the power of the Holy Spirit). To be the best example I can be for Him. I want the population of Heaven to increase and the population of Hell to decrease. I really like people. I guess I am what is considered a people person and it pains me greatly to think many will go to hell.  Many times I have to hold my tongue as I do not want to bring disgrace on my Lord and Savior. God forbid if I am the cause of somebody to stumble and reject our Lord.


You are the person I thought of as a complete opposite of what one was likely to encounter with Pablo in the case of disagreement over different points of view.

You can disagree without being disagreeable.  He doesn't seem to be able to do so, at least when it comes to matters of faith. 

Nothing like being chastised by being told one should be spending less time online and more time "reading your Bible" as a method of gentle enlightenment.

Yeah, that last was sarcasm 'cause I'm still pissed about it.
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