Author Topic: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash  (Read 8120 times)

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Offline trapeze

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2011, 11:38:10 PM »
Well, getting back to Anne's theory...

The root of her conspiracy theory is birtherism. That should raise a red flag all by itself.

I have said on more than one occasion that I could give birtherism the benefit of the doubt except for one little inconvenient fact: the newspaper birth announcement. That kills the whole thing.

So...Anne's theory is built upon an extremely bad foundation. And then when you throw in the suicidal notion of betraying/murdering members of the world's most highly trained, elite killers it only gets more implausible and, yes, even ridiculous.

As I said, I like Anne. Her use of strips of bacon as bookmarks in the koran was inspired brilliance and (given the muzzies proclivity toward murder and mayhem) very gutsy.

But this is not logical, reasonable or plausible.

No one would like to see BO get caught doing something criminal more than me but this isn't going to be it.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline rickl

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2011, 09:12:45 AM »
Trap, I've always been an agnostic on the subject of Obama's birthplace (and it doesn't even matter at this point), but that birth certificate PDF released by the White House is as fraudulent as the TANG memos from 2004.

I work with Adobe Illustrator, and while I'm no expert by any means, even I know enough to flatten the file before saving it as a PDF.  That it wasn't done allows only two possibilities:

1.  It was an incredibly incompetent forgery
2.  Obama wanted people to discover that it was a forgery

#1 doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about the abilities and competence of the people running our country and our lives.  #2 just leaves me scratching my head.  Why?
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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2011, 09:31:09 AM »
My mind tells me Trap is spot-on. But then I ask myself, what is the likelihood that the members of Seal Team 6 who were reported to have taken out bin Laden were all killed in a chopper crash?

There are some very, very curious aspects to this situation, and I frankly doubt that we will ever know if there is more to the truth unless someone comes forward.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2011, 10:32:09 AM »
Re: the .pdf file...it doesn't matter to me. I honestly don't need any more proof of his place of birth than the birth announcement in the Hawaii newspaper fifty years ago. That the .pdf file was probably not the real thing is irrelevant to me. The birther nonsense is almost as bad as the truther crap. Using birtherism as the foundation for yet another conspiracy theory is, to me, just plain nuts.

Re: SEAL Team Six...it's too early and there isn't enough reliable information to say anything about this matter. The stuff flying around right now is no more reliable than what was being said in the aftermath of the OBL raid. Let the dust settle and wait to see what comes out. There are all kinds of military blogs that will undoubtedly be a better source of info than the MFM.

I know next to nothing about Navy SEALs. As do most people not directly involved in the program regardless of what they say. I have a friend with a son who is a SEAL. He knows almost nothing about what his son does and where he does it. He doesn't even know what theater of operations he is in let alone what country he is in. And when his son is home on leave he doesn't say anything about the missions he has been on. Zero. Nothing.

That said, common sense leads me to believe that there are significantly more than twenty or thirty men who make up any individual SEAL team. The requirements of troop rotation would be one reason. Also there is the idea that each member (although multi-disciplined) has a specialty and that would mean a large number needed to make up a proper force. Plus the need to have members available to replace those lost to sickness, injury or death. We have no idea at all who the individual members were who were on the OBL raid and we don't know if they were on this helicopter flight. We don't even know if they were Navy SEALs. Really, we don't know*.

Wait for the info to come out. We are not in a good position to discuss the blame for this horrible loss of life at this time.

So, that said, at this time I am much more inclined to chalk it up to the "fog of war" than some all encompassing conspiracy that winds its way all the way up the chain of command to the CIC. BO is a a total puke but I'm not willing to assign him the responsibility for a murder conspiracy of any kind without way more to go on than this nonsense.


*And there is an extremely high likelihood that the New Yorker article that gave out all kinds of operational details (including, inexplicably, names) about the OBL raid was a total fake.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 10:45:14 AM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline rickl

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2011, 10:51:11 AM »
That the .pdf file was probably not the real thing is irrelevant to me.
There is nothing "probably" about it.  It is completely fake.

Quote
*And there is an extremely high likelihood that the New Yorker article that gave out all kinds of operational details (including, inexplicably, names) about the OBL raid was a total fake.
Barnhardt also has a post about that on her site.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2011, 11:07:18 AM »
I profess no expertise in graphic arts so I will take your word for it. That said, there are any number of more plausible explanations for a fake BC than birtherism. The most likely one that I have heard is that his name is not listed on the BC as it is given today.

Personally, I would like to see one or more states require a BC for having a name appear on the ballot. I would also like to see someone leak BO's school transcripts. Especially since someone has seen fit to leak Perry's.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline rickl

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2011, 11:15:17 AM »
Yes, I've always been more interested in his school transcripts than his birth certificate.

I've always suspected that they weren't released because they would reveal that his courseload consisted of classes like Marxist Economics, Post-Colonialism, and Racial Grievance Theory.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2011, 11:45:48 AM »
Yes, I've always been more interested in his school transcripts than his birth certificate.

I've always suspected that they weren't released because they would reveal that his courseload consisted of classes like Marxist Economics, Post-Colonialism, and Racial Grievance Theory.

I've wondered if he didn't receive grants applied for as an Indonesian citizen.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2011, 12:55:16 PM »
He is golfing today.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Glock32

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2011, 12:59:11 PM »
Of course he is. Just in the past few days he's presided over the increase of debt to more than 100% of GDP, a first time ever downgrade of our sovereign credit rating, and as the cherry on top he gets to relish in the deaths of our special forces. It's party time in the half-White House
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charlesoakwood

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2011, 01:13:45 PM »




The birther issue is presently not an issue because -- he's in office.  However it will be very important to history illustrating how sloppy we as a nation were in allowing corruption from the literal beginning through ever step of his life to enter into public service.  And, if we survive, how to prevent this catastrophe from occurring again.

Frank Davis,
Grandmother - bank officer in charge of federal accounts, ties to State, Hawaii
Grandfarther - close ties to State
Father - a chosen one by the State Department,
Mother in foreign service married to an Indonesian working with Tim Geithner's father in Indonesia
Life in Indonesia,
Traveling under an Indonesian passport.
Travels in Pakistan
College grants as an Indonesian.
College - dope and Marxist studies in a life of privilege,   
Bill Ayers and advanced studies
all tangible certification, except his biographical manifesto, cloaked, hidden, and sequestered 

The newspaper notice: a newspaper prints those for a fee requiring no certification.


Her narrative is not implausible, it's overwhelming.




Offline rickl

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2011, 01:37:22 PM »
It's also kind of intriguing that Obama's mother knew Timothy Geithner's parents in Indonesia.
We are so far past and beyond the “long train of abuses and usurpations” that the Colonists and Founders experienced and which necessitated the Revolutionary War that they aren’t even visible in the rear-view mirror.
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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2011, 01:48:09 PM »
It's also kind of intriguing that Obama's mother knew Timothy Geithner's parents in Indonesia.

The Jarrett family has old connections to the Dunhams as well.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2011, 01:53:21 PM »

Creepy


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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2011, 01:55:39 PM »

Creepy



Yah.  That sort of sums up Duh Wun.
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Offline rickl

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2011, 02:52:28 PM »
The commenter Wolla Dalbo at Neo-neocon had this to say:

Quote
Ann Barnhardt is a very young, intelligent, tough-minded, and apparently successful commodities broker and a bold, well-armed, defiant, militant, conservative Catholic from Colorado who, some of you might know, put up some videos on Youtube a few weeks ago (http://www.youtube.com/user/AnnBarnhardt?feature=mhum)–which have had a half a million views so far–in which she read some of the major hateful passages (it must have been hard to choose between so many possible good candidates) from a Qur’an marked with bacon strips, and then set those pages on fire.

She had also challenged any Muslims who object to come to her doorstep—she gives her address at the end of the video—and she promises them that she will defend herself.

Since then, she has been interviewed on several talk radio shows, has put up several more videos, posted several articles on her website (barnhardt.biz) giving her views about Islam, the Jihad, Muslims, and the Obama Administration, and she is now contributing articles to the “American Thinker.”

I don’t agree with Ann’s take and her analysis on everything but, as regards Muslims I think that Ann is right on target. As well, she despises Obama, and flat out calls him a Marxist and a Muslim who is out to destroy America, and I think that she is pretty much on target there as well. In sum, she wouldn’t put anything past him.

Today, she is writing that she believes that the evidence is stacking up in a way that points to the conclusion that the downing of the helicopter carrying a good number of Seal Team 6 members—the Seal Team that “killed Bin Laden”–was, in fact, an attempt by the Obama administration to try to get rid of witnesses to what she believes was a stage-managed, phony takedown of Bin Laden (whose dead body we have never actually seen a picture of, whose DNA test to confirm his identity was supposedly done in record time in a helicopter under field conditions, and whose body was conveniently dumped in the ocean—all within 24 hours of the commencement of the Op) who she believes has actually been dead for several years. Ann is writing that, between the MSM reportage and the information her contacts within the military and ex-military types are feeding her, the picture being created seems, more and more, to confirm her suspicions.

Things, for instance, like the type of helicopter the Seal Team was in, the targeting of this particular team, and the immediate announcement of the shootdown acknowledging the presence of dozens of Seal Team 6 members on the downed helicopter, when such information is usually very closely held and not reported, and certainly not immediately, or so quickly that it was likely on the air before the next of kin had even had a chance to be notified.

You may recall that this take down of Bin Laden happened at a particularly opportune time for Obama, who was facing some particularly bad problems, and once this story hit, it monopolized the MSM and pushed those problems off center stage. Given all that has taken place so far, I can certainly conceive of Obama being ruthless and Machiavellian enough to have such a coup as a phony “killing of Bin Ladin” ready in the wings to be employed when it would help him out the most.

I am usually not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I might remind people here that just a few short years ago many of us would have considered it “conspiracy theory crap” and impossible that a President of the U.S. would spend as utterly ecklessly as Obama has, or nationalize whole sectors of the economy and emasculate commercial contract and bankruptcy law in the process, would try to stir up so much class warfare while living a Louis XVI lifestyle, would deliberately exacerbate Black-White tensions, would run rough-shod over and disregard the Constitution in so many ways, appoint so many radicals to positions of power, push policies that drive unemployment up and employment down, have managed to put almost 50 million people on the food stamp rolls, have the gall to tell us the other day that “extending jobless benefits past 99 weeks was the surest way to create immediate employment,” have wholesaled so many bare-faced lies, presented as true what many experts have called a phony long form birth certificate, or preside over the first ever downgrade of the credit rating of the United States; all the while blaming everyone else in sight (“Bush did it”) for these deliberate lies and acts and resultant catastrophes except himself, his administration and its policies, and the Democratic Party.

In fact, one could say that everything that comes out of this administration—every policy, every decision, every appointment, every statement and justification—turns out, upon examination, to be in some way or other either a deception and/or a lie.

When the Obama administration first came into office I wrote here of us having to use a totally new and radical “template” when trying to comprehend and gauge Obama, and I must admit that I am wondering just how radical and ruthless the actions that that new template covers just might be.
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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2011, 03:52:18 PM »
Quote
Dec. 2010: "U.S. Revises Its Rules for Afghan Night Raids" August, 2011: 22 Seals Die

Dear President Putz, Policies have consequences:

    The changes in guidelines for nighttime raids, made in consultation with the White House, are intended to expand protections for civilians and increase coordination with higher-level Afghan government officials—without putting new obstacles in the way of the Special Operations units that carry out the raids, according to officials who have reviewed the new order..... A senior military official in Afghanistan said the changes were mostly administrative and would have no impact on operations. -- - WSJ.com

http://americandigest.org/sidelines/2011/08/#a015307
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Offline trapeze

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2011, 04:04:40 PM »
The newspaper notice: a newspaper prints those for a fee requiring no certification.


Her narrative is not implausible, it's overwhelming.





And so the birther narrative would have one believe that fifty years ago that announcement was placed for the sole purpose of validating the birth location of the future president.

Sure.

I still come back to the basic problem with any and all conspiracies: Someone (usually many) always talks. It's inevitable. It's human nature. It happens every single time.

The bigger and more complex the conspiracy, the harder it is to keep it a secret.

The one that Ann describes is monumental. A leviathan conspiracy that would involve the willing and confidential participation of dozens, if not hundreds, of people at multiple levels of responsibility. I can buy into BO wanting to see special forces killed but I can't see the required others silent and willing involvement in treason and murder. Someone always talks.

So, sorry, but no sale. I will entertain such notions only when there is actual evidence.  
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Predator Don

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2011, 04:08:32 PM »
My son, recently out of the army and did a stint in Iraq, seemed comcerned to find out Seal team 6 would even be mentioned, not just championed, for the osama exploits.....I remember his comments on why would they name names, so to speak. He thought it dangerous and made them targets. I may be mistaken, but I don't believe the soldiers who pulled saddam out of his hole were championed....at least not so publically.

Now this.....This may not be a conspiracy, but as far as I can see this is layed at the feet of obama. I do not put ANYTHING past this guy. NOTHING. I can completely believe obama using osamas death, whether faked or not, as political gain.

Maybe the shooting down of this chinook, with its passengers is just a bad coincidence, but with this president, I can't help but think....maybe not.
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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2011, 04:17:35 PM »
I'm neither buying nor selling, however ....

Quote
And so the birther narrative would have one believe that fifty years ago that announcement was placed for the sole purpose of validating the birth location of the future president.

.... consider for a moment it has nothing at all to do with "the future president" conspiracy, but more of helping to establish a paper-trail for normal, everyday reasons pertaining only to the value of American citizenship.

And, IIRC, the address given in the announcement was the Dunhams, not Stanley Ann's.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"