Author Topic: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash  (Read 8120 times)

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Offline trapeze

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2011, 04:27:02 PM »
Oh yeah...I'm also asked to believe that government employees (you know: the best and the brightest, the wizards of smart, the imagineers) are capable of conceiving, carrying out and then successfully covering up this fantastical operation?

Really?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 04:32:30 PM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

charlesoakwood

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2011, 04:35:21 PM »
Quote
And so the birther narrative would have one believe that fifty years ago that announcement was placed for the sole purpose of validating the birth location of the future president.

No, it was placed to assure one's son or grandson would grow up with first and not thirdworld status.  One can easily envision grandma'  posting the notice because the silly girl doesn't understand.

It's not a monster conspiracy it's a list of several disparate acts that have a cumulative result.


« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 05:06:04 PM by Charles Oakwood »

Offline trapeze

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2011, 05:02:34 PM »
Okay, well, whatever. Agree to disagree I guess.

I'm still putting my money on us not killing our own special forces. As rickl said earlier, that is a bridge too far for me.

I have no doubt whatsoever that BO cares nothing for our troops. He is, after all, an a$$hole.

But I refuse to believe that:

There was a conspiracy to kill SEALs because:

They were involved in a conspiracy to fake the killing of OBL because:

O'Bama needed to distract from the fake BC put out to prevent:

Anyone from paying attention to the Corsi BC book's imminent release because:

BO wasn't really born in Hawaii and is, therefore, not really the legitimate president.

How many others now involved in this conspiracy would have to be killed using this same logic?

And then how many would need to be killed to cover up their killing?

It's like that scene toward the end of Goodfellas when Jimmy Conway started murdering literally everyone involved in the Lufthansa heist. Bodies would be everywhere.

And, yeah, no one would say anything to anyone. Just like with the JFK assassination. And the fake moon landing. And the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center by Dick Cheney and the Jews. And the demolition of the levies in New Orleans by Dick Cheney and the Jews.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 05:10:10 PM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

charlesoakwood

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2011, 05:07:01 PM »

OK, you have the last word.


Online Pandora

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2011, 05:23:28 PM »
trap, did you see the link to the WSJ piece I posted?  Nothing conspiratorial; just ROE FUBAR.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2011, 05:35:02 PM »
trap, did you see the link to the WSJ piece I posted?  Nothing conspiratorial; just ROE FUBAR.

Makes sense to me. ROEs are BS. The enemy doesn't have ROEs. I have posted about that particular bit of politically correct nonsense before where I lamented the end of the concept of "total war."

Total war with a modern fighting force tends to end conflicts very, very quickly with little (if any) loss of troops. At least against cave dwellers without nukes.

As to this shoot down, lacking better information I will go with what appears to be the most likely explanation: a lucky shot with a dumb weapon.

Tragic and totally unnecessary. Turn Afghanistan into a parking lot. Salt their land. Make it an object lesson for the Pakistanis and Iranians.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Online John Florida

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2011, 06:03:50 PM »
That's the place that needs to be left to burn.Just bring them home.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 08:08:27 PM by John Florida »
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Offline Glock32

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2011, 06:21:58 PM »
I'm buying into the info linked from Pandora's post. ROE, specifically the increased coordination with "the Afghan government". It's not hard to imagine some ragheads from the Afghan non-government being brought into the operational loop to appease the kumbaya types at the State Department, and said ragheads promptly informing their coreligionists of the huge opportunity. If they somehow had information that the team on board were SEALs then that would have made it all the more irresistible.

This sort of thing happens in every conflict where the feel-good sentimentalists behind desks in DC make our theater forces pretend that the indigenous units are in any way our peers.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2011, 07:32:07 PM »
I'm buying into the info linked from Pandora's post. ROE, specifically the increased coordination with "the Afghan government". It's not hard to imagine some ragheads from the Afghan non-government being brought into the operational loop to appease the kumbaya types at the State Department, and said ragheads promptly informing their coreligionists of the huge opportunity. If they somehow had information that the team on board were SEALs then that would have made it all the more irresistible.

This sort of thing happens in every conflict where the feel-good sentimentalists behind desks in DC make our theater forces pretend that the indigenous units are in any way our peers.

That is my fear too G.  It seems more than coincidence or dumb luck that these SOB's got a helo loaded with some of the best we have shot down.

The loss makes me literally sick to my stomach, and my anger toward Obama is at a new high.  His actions have been nothing but treasonous.  Our ROE's should be to stay several steps ahead of the opposition and to use whatever means necessary to eliminate them from the face of the earth.

I'm just sick and angry!

And now the survivors of the fallen have to bear the burden.

This article just breaks my heart -

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/08/07/afghanistan.fatality/index.html

I just want to hug these people and bring our people home!  Obama has lost the war, which was his aim all along, and I don't want to see anymore deaths.

And the military community is going to get kicked in the shorts as the Pentagon budget is about to bear the brunt of what cuts we do get in spending, so we get weaker and weaker by the second.

And losing any number from SEAL Team 6 is bad enough, but this number of losses is staggering.

If there is a Afghani leak, I want them on coals for a long long time before they enter hell!!!
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charlesoakwood

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2011, 09:23:09 PM »

More contrairianisms:

Confirmed: It was A National Guard Chinook & Crew
Posted by Ann Barnhardt - August 7, AD 2011 6:17 PM MST
From the obituary of Sgt. Patrick Hamburger who served in the Nebraska National Guard as a Chinook Helicopter crewman and crew chief. The family was notified at 5:00pm CDT Saturday afternoon.

Link Here.

From the article:

Sources from the US military say the giant NATO chopper was called into action as backup. A team conducting a night raid on Taliban fighters was in trouble and the chopper went down as it arrived to help.

Requiescat in pace, Sgt. Hamburger, and all the fallen dead.

Sgt. Hamburger had JUST ARRIVED in Afghanistan a couple of days ago. Why was a green National Guard unit flying backup for DEVGRU SPECOPs? Where was the 160th SOAR backup?

My God.

UPDATE: Additional confirmation that it was a CH-47 transport helo. Copy and paste this URL:

http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2011/08/07/fighting-at-site-of-us-helicopter-crash-in-central-afghanistan-continues/

What in the HELL was a CH-47 TRANSPORT helo doing in a DEVGRU combat theater? FILLED WITH 25 SEALS? If the SEALs' MH-47G SPECOPS Chinook that they rode in on was taken out in the Tangi theater, where is the fallen MH-47G helo itself? Shouldn't there also be dead crew members from the 160th SOAR, which is an Army unit? This ain't right, people. I'm telling you. This is NOT RIGHT.



Offline trapeze

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2011, 11:17:24 PM »
Spoke to my son about this today. As mentioned earlier, he works on Chinooks.

He tells me that it was a rocket attack and not an RPG. The amount of damage sustained was only possible from a rocket attack. Rocket fired from directly underneath the bird, the only place where it's vulnerable...countermeasures are not functional in such a situation.

In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Libertas

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2011, 06:55:45 AM »
I think your boy is right Trap, the RPG does not have the punch nor accuracy of a rocket, especially in a ground-to-air operation.  However, the Taliban do have a history of making them work in that role, but they would have to be close to the target and the target must be level or travelling slower than normal.  Most articles state the helo was on approach, so it could have been vulnerable to an RPG attack.  The disturbing question is were these scumbags tipped off, or did they bait the area knowing such a force was likely to be sortied and they flew into the trap?  If the former I want bodies on racks, if the latter who the hell made the call to send the Op in as described.  I would think SpecOp's types wouldn't go in just one direction, they'd come in from a several compass points just to avoid such a trap.  We don't have enough of the facts yet to know one way or the other.  And I echo CO's concern about the role of the 160th.  Anybody with any sense ought to know not to marry up unfamiliar units for an operation and anything SpecOp's does is beyond normal operations, you dance with your regular partners, period, so something seems terribly wrong here.  I don't know if the wrong info is getting put out or what.  I am also hearing that possibly only 2 of the fallen were from SEAL Team 6, if true the balance would have come from other teams.  The info on this is still too fluid.  But there is going to be a lot of debriefing and investigations on this one, lets hope the truth doesn't get washed out, the honor of the fallen and their survivors demands nothing less!
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Offline trapeze

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In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Libertas

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2011, 01:36:52 PM »
The trap was sprung...still don't know if there is a rat back in Kabul!

And I really don't like SEALs rotating through this IRF, they should have their own missions and stick with the 160th!

I wanna know who authorized both deviations!
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charlesoakwood

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2011, 02:09:15 PM »
The trap was sprung...still don't know if there is a rat back in Kabul!

And I really don't like SEALs rotating through this IRF, they should have their own missions and stick with the 160th!

I wanna know who authorized both deviations!

Cha-ching


Online John Florida

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2011, 05:22:20 PM »
The trap was sprung...still don't know if there is a rat back in Kabul!

And I really don't like SEALs rotating through this IRF, they should have their own missions and stick with the 160th!

I wanna know who authorized both deviations!

Cha-ching


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charlesoakwood

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2011, 10:13:42 PM »

If these opinions are not posted here they will disappear within a few days.
Conspiracy, probably not, corrupt to the gills for sure. We must know who OK'd these radical breaches of protocol.  More questions and inconsistencies:

There are No Identifiable Remains

Posted by Ann Barnhardt - August 8, AD 2011 6:54 PM MST

There are NO identifiable remains - none, but yet the government was publicly braying within hours exactly who was on the chopper by unit. In the chaos of a combat theater, how could they be certain exactly who was on that chopper, and how many, if there were NO IDENTIFIABLE REMAINS? How did they know there were no captures? Or KIAs whose bodies were drug away by the Taliban?

Reuters citation here.


Contradiction.

Posted by Ann Barnhardt - August 8, AD 2011 6:17 PM MST
Which is it? Were they inbound and crashed, or outbound and caught as they were departing?

It can't be both.

Copy and paste these URLs into your address bar.

Version 1: Inbound

http://investmentwatchblog.com/us-helicopter-crashed-in-taliban-trap-afghan-official/

Version 2: Outbound

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/08/taliban-chopper-killer/

Goodness. I can't imagine why I'm skeptical. Direct contradiction is usually so . . . consoling.



Online John Florida

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2011, 10:39:23 PM »
CO there are so many meadow muffins out there you can't believe any of it till later in the game. This is a lot like who's on first than an accurate report from any of them.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2011, 10:56:47 PM »

I understand, but whatever the results they will show a massive FUBAR, I think.
The media wants to pass it off as another accident and it's not.  Information will disappear from Google etc and like the Predsdent's other unrelated FUBAR's such as the economy, the rule of law, the information should be collected and then sorted.

If it was good enough for A.Weiner it's darn well good enough for Team 6.

 

Offline Libertas

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Re: 31 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan helicopter crash
« Reply #59 on: August 09, 2011, 07:15:30 AM »
The honor of these men and the loved ones they left behind deserve nothing but the truth of this entire affair.  I hope we get there, but I fear some of the troubling questions we've raised are going to get sanitized.

This ABC link I put in the has pics of some of the fallen, I flicked through each one and my thoughts and prayers are with their family and friends back home.

http://www.wjla.com/pictures/2011/08/photos-of-the-fallen-30-americans-shot-down-in-afghanistan-/robert-reeves-6219-451.html

I also put a tribute under the Departed thread -

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,2414.new.html#new


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