Author Topic: Whittle Happy Hour..  (Read 769 times)

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Online Weisshaupt

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Whittle Happy Hour..
« on: August 24, 2011, 03:41:27 PM »

Offline Glock32

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Re: Whittle Happy Hour..
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2011, 09:11:31 AM »
I just watched all of it. Excellent, as usual. One minor quibble I would take with him is in the third part, about Muslim Americans. It's only a minor quibble, since he does realize and acknowledge that on the whole Islam contains intrinsic hostilities. But I would go further, and suggest that adherence to Islam is irreconcilable with loyalty to America or the American idea even for those adherents who are not actively strapping on suicide vests. One expression I've heard that summarizes what I mean is "the only good Muslim is a bad Muslim", in other words any Muslim who reciprocates tolerance and mutual respect to non-Muslims is, by that faith's own commandments, being a "bad" Muslim.

Otherwise though, Whittle is always good. You can tell he's the sort of guy whose thoughts are running in a thousand directions at once. I'd hate to see him after downing a Red Bull!
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Whittle Happy Hour..
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2011, 10:18:38 AM »
I in other words any Muslim who reciprocates tolerance and mutual respect to non-Muslims is, by that faith's own commandments, being a "bad" Muslim.

Yeah, but American Muslim's feel a bit more free to interpret the Koran differently than other sects. Just like we have different sects of Christianity in America, with different interpretations  of the Bible, Muslims have the same. There isn't a powerful caliphate dictating what a Good or a Bad Muslim is - as the Catholic Church did for Christians for centuries - threatening ex-communication if you disagreed.  Islam is as fragmented as the Christian church is-- more so really. So while Bill is correct, and most Imams will say Later supersedes earlier, others will say different, and living and believing in America pretty much requires that.  Religions do change and grow, adopt new doctrines and discard old - even if they aren't supposed to. Just look at how many Christian churches embrace homosexuality now.  Yes, you can argue they aren't "really Christian" either, but that doesn't change the fact that they exist, or use the same text as the basis of their faith, and call themselves "Christian" (S.I. Hawakawa wrote Language in Thought and Action  and has many interesting thoughts on words, labeling and definitions- well worth the read )

An American simply isn't defined by geography- there are Americans scattered all over the world waiting for a chance to come home- Muslims among them.  As Bill said, he would love to bring all of them in and kick these America haters out into the third world... that they are the best Americans you will find anywhere - they want to come here because they git it.  I met a LOT of immigrants as Tea Parties -pissed because escaping Obamacrap like this was why they cut all ties to their motherland and came here. .  America withstood the cultural melee of all of those 18th century  immigrants because every one of them was ALREADY an American at heart - self selected to come here  - without safety nets, without guarantees. Predominately those where the type of Muslims that started Mosques in America, and they worship differently because of it.

Yes, the Koran  has seeds of violence in it. So does the Bible. Men took up Swords in Jesus' name during the Crusades. Where they "good Christians"? According to the Catholic Church at the time they were.  I see Churches as tools- institutions invented my men to fill the needs of men, and like any tool they can serve their intended purpose, or become weapons. Is that a screw driver or a weapon? Is that a baseball bat or a weapon? Is that a vehicle for spreading the word of God, or a weapon to move men to commit atrocities? It all depends on those actually wielding the tool. When you blame Religion (Islam, Christianity whatever)  for inciting violence you are blaming the tool. Its just like when the Liberals blame the guns for crimes and violence.  Look at the people wielding the tools as weapons and you will see the actual guilty parties.  Yes, it makes identification of evil harder, but that is the real world, and the cost of knowledge (to invoke Sowell) .  There may come a point where gaining the knowledge is too costly, and we must make the economization  that Muslum = Threat, and accept that will come with injustice towards certain individuals.just as we did with the internment of the Japanese,   but I don't think we have reached that point yet.


Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Whittle Happy Hour..
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2011, 12:43:35 PM »
...There may come a point where gaining the knowledge is too costly, and we must make the economization  that Muslum = Threat, and accept that will come with injustice towards certain individuals.just as we did with the internment of the Japanese,   but I don't think we have reached that point yet.

I agree, no injustice. While I do not believe Americans can act overtly against the constitutional rights of Muslims, I believe there must be some conventional wisdom about Islam such as this: (Muslim ? Threat) + (Islam = Threat) = Muslim Potential Threat. And I believe conventional wisdom requires some kind of actionable response.

I think that the potential nature of the threat demands that we protect the rights of individual Muslims until there is justifiable reason not to, but in the meantime, have no illusions about the evil nature of Islam. It is not just another religion wielded as a tool of control by evil men. Islam itself is evil, and the evidence is the fruit of an entire religion. Wherever Islam prevails, evil prevails. That includes the hearts of men.

In all ways constitutionally possible, the American people should stand against Islam, while adhering to the letter of the law - pushing the letter of the law against Islam wherever possible. To me, that is justice in the war against this plague of evil.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: Whittle Happy Hour..
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2011, 05:26:39 PM »
...There may come a point where gaining the knowledge is too costly, and we must make the economization  that Muslum = Threat, and accept that will come with injustice towards certain individuals.just as we did with the internment of the Japanese,   but I don't think we have reached that point yet.

...

In all ways constitutionally possible, the American people should stand against Islam, while adhering to the letter of the law - pushing the letter of the law against Islam wherever possible. To me, that is justice in the war against this plague of evil.


In WWII the Chinese and Japanese hung flags in their shop windows or otherwise did things to action-ably and visually to demonstrate that they were loyal fellow Americans.  Pledging full allegiance to America, as every immigrant in the past has done, has yet to be done by them.   Overseas their cousins kill us and over here the religious tenant to cheat, debase and corrupt us is acted out every day by every faithful Muslim. 
Respect; sympathy; why?