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Author Topic: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate  (Read 5233 times)

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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2011, 08:51:32 PM »
Biggest loser so far appears to be Paul.

Perry has taken a lot of hits in the last 45 minutes. Still standing but he needs some help.

As strange as it may seem, the most reasonable, honest and competent person looks to be Gingrich.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2011, 08:56:00 PM »
Gee, I don't know...

Paul and Huntsman were worse than useless.

The others all weakened each other except for Gingrich. Go figure. I never would have thought he would look so strong compared to the others.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2011, 09:01:44 PM »
Bachmann is doing the after show and still harping on Gardasil. This is pure overkill and makes everyone who sees it think that Bachmann believes that, unlike Perry, she thinks she has never ever made a mistake. She sez that executives don't get mulligans. Huh? Execs have to be perfect? Who would that be? Not her or anyone else. What is the matter with her? Why doesn't she just pound O'Bama and emphasize policy points?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 09:46:45 PM by trapeze »
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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2011, 09:07:25 PM »
Cain also did a good job of staying on point without going after the other candidates. He looked better than Bachmann in my opinion.

Please remember that I have been a big fan of Bachmann but I just didn't care for her performance tonight. It was too focused on attacking Perry. To what end? Santorum did it too.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2011, 09:13:47 PM »
Call me crazy but I want to see candidates going after O'Bama and the Democrats.

I want to hear answers to vexing problems rather than attacks on fellow candidates.

I want to it to be a battle of ideas rather than personalities.

After seeing this and reflecting on it...Cain and Gingrich exemplified this the best. Sadly, they are both, in all likelihood, not going to win the primary. They both have problems of their own...unforced errors both current and historical. Plus the media isn't going to give them the kind of buzz they need to become top tier. Unfair but that's the way it works.

The media very obviously wants the race to be between Romney and Perry. So, in all likelihood, that's what it will come down to.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2011, 09:23:23 PM »
As bad as the Gardasil thing was for Perry (and it was very, very bad), I think that the immigration issue and  his intransigence on it is his real Achilles heal.

Is he incapable of doing polls on this issue and hardening his stance on it even a little bit? I mean, it's not as if he's on the same page as the Democrats, he isn't, but this is NOT how you get the base fired up to vote for you and volunteer for you.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 09:46:18 PM by trapeze »
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ttomm46

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2011, 09:33:07 PM »
 ::danceban::It still seems to me that Newt has won all 3 debates
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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2011, 09:49:09 PM »
Quote from: ttomm46 on September 12, 2011, 09:33:07 PM
::danceban::It still seems to me that Newt has won all 3 debates

I think he has looked stronger with each outing but I don't see it reflected in the polling.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2011, 10:04:13 PM »
Way to go, RP! Isolate the base and piss off everyone! Yay, Ron Paul! Yay!


It's not easy pulling this off. Credit where credit is due.
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2011, 10:06:56 PM »
I appreciate his candor - now appreciate mine.

I wouldn't waste a vote for ron paul if you put a gun to my head.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2011, 10:39:03 PM »
Bachmann really needs to regroup. I still like her for the same reasons that I did before but these debate performances are being wasted by her. Unless it is her purpose to do Romney's dirty work against Perry. She needs to go back to her strength which was pounding O'Bama and the Democrats, denouncing O'BamaCare, denouncing taxes, regulations, etc. Emphasizing the constitution. Being pro American exceptionalism. That kind of stuff.

I think that voters are looking for vision.

There wasn't much of that on display tonight compared to the sniping. I do not understand why our candidates are falling for this largely media driven nonsense.
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ttomm46

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2011, 10:51:37 PM »
Quote from: trapeze on September 12, 2011, 10:04:13 PM
Way to go, RP! Isolate the base and piss off everyone! Yay, Ron Paul! Yay!


It's not easy pulling this off. Credit where credit is due.
the boos warmed my heart
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2011, 11:25:36 PM »
I agree almost lockstep with your analysis Trap. Although I will say re; the Gardasil thing... if the claims are true that the lobbyist for Merck was Perry's Chief of Staff, that is something the conservative base should know about, and Bachmann's right. That kind of crony-capitalism is what the people are unequivocally saying they do not want.

I do hate to see these conservatives tearing at each other for a chance to run against the real enemy. Such behavior favors the incumbent they intend to unseat. Surely they must know this.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2011, 11:51:26 PM »

Quote from: IronDioPriest on September 12, 2011, 11:25:36 PM
I agree almost lockstep with your analysis Trap. Although I will say re; the Gardasil thing... if the claims are true that the lobbyist for Merck was Perry's Chief of Staff, that is something the conservative base should know about, and Bachmann's right. That kind of crony-capitalism is what the people are unequivocally saying they do not want.

I do hate to see these conservatives tearing at each other for a chance to run against the real enemy. Such behavior favors the incumbent they intend to unseat. Surely they must know this.

That whole thing is a twisty road.  Perry's wife is nurse, he genuinely has a desire to beat any cancer (the state has put billions into research), then lobbyist/adviser, and $5,000 donation from Merck (out of $30,000,000).  It's confusing.  The bottom line for me is the religious community, the evangelical community support him.  Very few speak against him and half of those are of questionable credibility. 

The controversy is a ginned up political hot potato.  Not one of the attackers accurately represented the facts.  By resorting to hyperbole they proved their argument weak.  And for Bachmann and especially Santorum I call them sanctimonious.

Santorum wrote himself off when he supported Arlen Specter for senate. 
Michele can still pull it out but she's stuck right now.


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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2011, 01:45:27 AM »
Quote from: Charles Oakwood on September 12, 2011, 11:51:26 PM

That whole thing is a twisty road.  Perry's wife is nurse, he genuinely has a desire to beat any cancer (the state has put billions into research), then lobbyist/adviser, and $5,000 donation from Merck (out of $30,000,000).  It's confusing.  The bottom line for me is the religious community, the evangelical community support him.  Very few speak against him and half of those are of questionable credibility. 

The controversy is a ginned up political hot potato.  Not one of the attackers accurately represented the facts.  By resorting to hyperbole they proved their argument weak.  And for Bachmann and especially Santorum I call them sanctimonious.

Santorum wrote himself off when he supported Arlen Specter for senate. 
Michele can still pull it out but she's stuck right now.

Agreed. That said...

I understand the objections to the HPV/Gardasil issue. Perry f**ked up. This is the anti-free market, big government/nanny state crappola that I despise Michael Bloomberg for. I have no idea whether Perry is being sincere or not with his walk back on the issue. But he has walked it back and the criticism should have ended after the last debate. It should never have been dredged up again at this debate. Doing so helps no one and harms the Republican brand.

The same cannot be said for Perry's extremely weak and pathetic stand on illegal immigrants. Perry should be beaten on this point until he admits his position is wrong.

Same for Romney on RomneyCare.

Perry's position on illegal Mexicans and Romney's position on state sponsored health care are RINO positions. We would be beating the crap out of McCain on both of these issues if he was running again. These guys do not deserve a pass on them.

But this is why we have primaries and debates.

In theory we should have a strong candidate emerge from the process. Sadly, the theory is frequently disproved (McCain) and we end up with a RINO who can't win.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2011, 01:52:42 AM »
Oh yeah...

The Paulbots must be just crushed that CNN isn't running an online poll so that they can make dozens of votes each and "prove" that RP is relevant.

Ha, ha, Paulbots! Go back to your World of Warcraft game on the Xbox! Losers.
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Offline warpmine

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2011, 06:57:03 AM »
Quote from: trapeze on September 12, 2011, 08:40:22 PM
Cain sez kill the EPA.

We have a winner ::thumbsup::
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2011, 07:34:00 AM »
Well, this isn't shaping up to my liking...

Bachmann should be nailing down Tea Party tenants and let Romeny & Perry duke it out.

Paul, Huntsman & Santorum need to just need to go away, period.

gNewt & Cain can hang around but they will not advance.

I am not sold on Perry.

And Romney, despite what the manipulative MFM polls say, stands little chance of unseating Duh Wun, he does not have what it takes to wage total war with evil.

Having said that, it is entirely possible that the right candidate isn't even in the race yet...

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Offline trapeze

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2011, 07:53:26 AM »
Her time is running out. It's pretty hard to put together a real campaign organization from scratch...offices with experienced/qualified managers in every state...more in the critical early states...more in the Super Tuesday states...these things take time and they involve resources that are not unlimited (and I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about talented people).

BO is a sh*tty president but one thing you have to credit him for is campaign organization. His candidacy didn't just happen. Sure, the media helped but he had crap going everywhere at the grass roots level on up earlier than anyone else. That's how he was able to beat HRC and keep her beaten all the way to the end. Face it, it's not as if he had any substance to run on.

Palin needs to fish or cut bait and do it pretty quick or no amount of substance on her part is going to be good enough. These things take time and a tremendous amount of work.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The 9-12 Tea Party Express Republican Debate
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2011, 08:03:22 AM »
True, but Palin might be the only one who has that kind of time, being on the outside looking in is one thing, having the ear, hearts & minds of the Tea Party is another and alleviates much of the shortcomings you mention.  It could be an effective strategy to stay out until a couple weeks before Iowa, or wait till after it and NH...then come out and declare the front runner(s) the wrong choice for the wrong time and the laggards as to weak to mount a challenge and ride to the rescue.  I dunno, all speculation right now, but bottom line, I am not liking where this appears to be headed as far as the existing crop goes.  Especially since Romney with his cash is in a better national footing, but there is no grasstoots type support for him, not like the Tea Party, and I do not see the Tea Party getting all to jazzed about a Romney nomination.  I am beginning to feel some apprehension...but it is still quite early, there is time to turn this around...the question is will we?
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