Author Topic: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale  (Read 50441 times)

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Offline John Florida

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #260 on: June 28, 2012, 11:08:27 AM »

We can either ride the horse we've got or walk.



  I this horse wont fight for it why do I need to back him.If were going to get our asses handed to us as often as we do why bother.
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #261 on: June 28, 2012, 11:09:47 AM »
It is a thin hope, but I won't lose all hope until the country crumbles around my ears. It's how I'm built. I have moments of despair, but then I look for hope.


I keep telling myself because I'm like that too.  In moments when I think I can't go on I remember the Lord has never let me down and somehow I do make it.

You know I don't want to fight this or any battle. I just want to be left alone.  I'm physically ill right now.


"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline John Florida

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #262 on: June 28, 2012, 11:11:14 AM »
This is Tyranny.  The voting booth means nothing because the will of the people means nothing.

The question is, do we find a way to resist or meekly accept our shackles?

 Get used to waring them it's all we got from both sides.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline John Florida

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #263 on: June 28, 2012, 11:12:13 AM »
It is a thin hope, but I won't lose all hope until the country crumbles around my ears. It's how I'm built. I have moments of despair, but then I look for hope.


I keep telling myself because I'm like that too.  In moments when I think I can't go on I remember the Lord has never let me down and somehow I do make it.

You know I don't want to fight this or any battle. I just want to be left alone.  I'm physically ill right now.




 Foget being left alone they just got the keys to your front door.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #264 on: June 28, 2012, 11:16:00 AM »
It is a thin hope, but I won't lose all hope until the country crumbles around my ears. It's how I'm built. I have moments of despair, but then I look for hope.


I keep telling myself because I'm like that too.  In moments when I think I can't go on I remember the Lord has never let me down and somehow I do make it.

You know I don't want to fight this or any battle. I just want to be left alone.  I'm physically ill right now.




 Foget being left alone they just got the keys to your front door.

I know.

They'll want my parental rights next.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline Glock32

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #265 on: June 28, 2012, 11:18:01 AM »
Quote
ou know I don't want to fight this or any battle. I just want to be left alone.  I'm physically ill right now.

We all just wanted to be left alone.  But there is none of that with the Left.  They will cajole and compel everyone to adhere to their vision.  That is our biggest weakness as conservatives.  Because we want to be left alone and free to live our own lives as we see fit, we are automatically in a defensive posture vis-a-vis the Left.  On everything.  And I think we can all witness the fruits of that passivity.

It is clear to me now that the Left can only be destroyed by destroying Leftists.  The sooner we get down to that, the sooner this gets settled one way or the other. There's no moral dilemma, really, because even if we continued with a passive and accommodating posture they would still force the issue for us.  This is because they long ago came to the conclusion that they will eliminate their ideological enemy by eliminating the individuals who subscribe to that ideology.
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Offline Gilead

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #266 on: June 28, 2012, 11:23:02 AM »
This is Tyranny.  The voting booth means nothing because the will of the people means nothing.

The question is, do we find a way to resist or meekly accept our shackles?

 Get used to waring them it's all we got from both sides.

As individuals, we can live our lives in such a way that we do not feed this beast.  The beast will never be satisfied until it has taken every drop of sustenance from us - I will seek every chance to legally deny it.  

Although I'm not sure what path that will be, I'm thinking step one is cashing out every dime we have in savings before they get their greasy, thieving hands on it for "redistribution".


charlesoakwood

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #267 on: June 28, 2012, 11:27:56 AM »

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/romney-if-we-want-get-rid-obamacare-were-going-have-replace-ppresident-obama_647937.html

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney reacted to the Supreme Court's Obamacare decision by saying that, "if we want to get rid of Obamacare, we're going to have to replace President Obama."
Mitt Romney

"Let's make clear that we understand what the Court did, and did not do," Romney said in Washington, D.C., according to a rough transcript of the presumptive Republican presidential nominee's statement. "What the Court did today was say that Obamacare does not violate the  Constitution. What they did not do was say that Obamacare is good law or that it's good policy."

Romney added: "Obamacare was bad policy yesterday. It's bad policy today. Obamacare was bad law yesterday. It's bad law today."

This presidential election is "a choice," Romney said. "You can choose whether you want to have a larger and larger government, more and more intrusive in your life, separating you and your doctor, whether you're comfortable with more deficits, higher debt that we will pass onto the coming generations. [Or] whether you're willing to have the government put in place a plan that potentially causes you to lose the insurance that you like or whether instead you want to return to a time when the American people will have their own choice in health care, where consumers will be able to make share choices as to what kind of health insurance they want."

"This is the time of choice for the American people," Romney said.


Offline John Florida

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #268 on: June 28, 2012, 11:28:20 AM »
This is Tyranny.  The voting booth means nothing because the will of the people means nothing.

The question is, do we find a way to resist or meekly accept our shackles?

 Get used to waring them it's all we got from both sides.

As individuals, we can live our lives in such a way that we do not feed this beast.  The beast will never be satisfied until it has taken every drop of sustenance from us - I will seek every chance to legally deny it.  

Although I'm not sure what path that will be, I'm thinking step one is cashing out every dime we have in savings before they get their greasy, thieving hands on it for "redistribution".





 To what end they control how you can spend it anyway.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline John Florida

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #269 on: June 28, 2012, 11:31:01 AM »

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/romney-if-we-want-get-rid-obamacare-were-going-have-replace-ppresident-obama_647937.html

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney reacted to the Supreme Court's Obamacare decision by saying that, "if we want to get rid of Obamacare, we're going to have to replace President Obama."
Mitt Romney

"Let's make clear that we understand what the Court did, and did not do," Romney said in Washington, D.C., according to a rough transcript of the presumptive Republican presidential nominee's statement. "What the Court did today was say that Obamacare does not violate the  Constitution. What they did not do was say that Obamacare is good law or that it's good policy."

Romney added: "Obamacare was bad policy yesterday. It's bad policy today. Obamacare was bad law yesterday. It's bad law today."

This presidential election is "a choice," Romney said. "You can choose whether you want to have a larger and larger government, more and more intrusive in your life, separating you and your doctor, whether you're comfortable with more deficits, higher debt that we will pass onto the coming generations. [Or] whether you're willing to have the government put in place a plan that potentially causes you to lose the insurance that you like or whether instead you want to return to a time when the American people will have their own choice in health care, where consumers will be able to make share choices as to what kind of health insurance they want."

"This is the time of choice for the American people," Romney said.



  No sh*t Sherloc.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #270 on: June 28, 2012, 11:31:44 AM »
Glock I know you didn't mean me personally but I've never passive.  And it's gained me no friends I can tell you.

Over and over I've said no and put my foot down and got nothing but grief even from family.  I've been called stubborn, dogmatic, a worrywart, overprotective, etc.

On Tuesday I took my youngest to the oral surgeon.  Unfortunately, in our family going to the oral surgeon is not a rare event.  In the past 15 years I've taken kids as young as 3 and as old as 16 to have teeth pulled.  Every single time I've stayed in the room.  They aren't put to sleep and want me there.  So the doc and nurses know us and me.  AND yet the nurse suggests I leave.

My daughter screams no and the nurse backs down.  I simply said I always stay.


I asked my daughter later what would she had done if the nurse had insisted I leave and she said I would have gotten up and left. ( hehehe That's my girl.)


Question:  Roberts says it's not up to the Court to protect people from the consequences of their choices.  If that's not the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard.  What the point of the Court then?  If we're so dumb we elect officials who decide to ignore the Constitution then what?  too bad?
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline Glock32

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #271 on: June 28, 2012, 11:38:43 AM »
Of course LV I didn't mean you personally.  Just from reading posts on this forum I know many of our members are stalwart in their own personal encounters with our ideological enemies.  The passivity I speak of is that of the conservative population. It's always about compromising, reaching across the aisle, swallowing pride for the sake of comity and easygoingness, and so on. You see it especially from the feckless leadership of the GOP.

How many different versions of "this ain't the hill to die on" have we heard from those cowards?  Well guess what, we've ceded all the hills so I guess we get to die on the flat lands instead.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #272 on: June 28, 2012, 11:40:10 AM »

States do not have to participate in the new medicade expansion and cannot be penalized by the Fed for opting out.  There will be many Red states opting out. 

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #273 on: June 28, 2012, 11:46:53 AM »
Of course LV I didn't mean you personally.  Just from reading posts on this forum I know many of our members are stalwart in their own personal encounters with our ideological enemies.  The passivity I speak of is that of the conservative population. It's always about compromising, reaching across the aisle, swallowing pride for the sake of comity and easygoingness, and so on. You see it especially from the feckless leadership of the GOP.

How many different versions of "this ain't the hill to die on" have we heard from those cowards?  Well guess what, we've ceded all the hills so I guess we get to die on the flat lands instead.

In our community a local organization has been sponsoring speakers about Obamacare and religious freedom. I went to hear a couple. I can't tell you how many people are surprised by the information they're hearing!! It's stuff I've heard for YEARS!
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #274 on: June 28, 2012, 12:02:03 PM »

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/romney-if-we-want-get-rid-obamacare-were-going-have-replace-ppresident-obama_647937.html

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney reacted to the Supreme Court's Obamacare decision by saying that, "if we want to get rid of Obamacare, we're going to have to replace President Obama."
Mitt Romney

"Let's make clear that we understand what the Court did, and did not do," Romney said in Washington, D.C., according to a rough transcript of the presumptive Republican presidential nominee's statement. "What the Court did today was say that Obamacare does not violate the  Constitution. What they did not do was say that Obamacare is good law or that it's good policy."

Romney added: "Obamacare was bad policy yesterday. It's bad policy today. Obamacare was bad law yesterday. It's bad law today."

This presidential election is "a choice," Romney said. "You can choose whether you want to have a larger and larger government, more and more intrusive in your life, separating you and your doctor, whether you're comfortable with more deficits, higher debt that we will pass onto the coming generations. [Or] whether you're willing to have the government put in place a plan that potentially causes you to lose the insurance that you like or whether instead you want to return to a time when the American people will have their own choice in health care, where consumers will be able to make share choices as to what kind of health insurance they want."

"This is the time of choice for the American people," Romney said.



I choose war. Kill them all and let God sort it out.

Offline Gilead

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #275 on: June 28, 2012, 12:06:10 PM »
This is Tyranny.  The voting booth means nothing because the will of the people means nothing.

The question is, do we find a way to resist or meekly accept our shackles?

 Get used to waring them it's all we got from both sides.

As individuals, we can live our lives in such a way that we do not feed this beast.  The beast will never be satisfied until it has taken every drop of sustenance from us - I will seek every chance to legally deny it.  

Although I'm not sure what path that will be, I'm thinking step one is cashing out every dime we have in savings before they get their greasy, thieving hands on it for "redistribution".





 To what end they control how you can spend it anyway.

It makes no difference. The object is not spending it, or making it available to them. That sum of money though, I should be careful or it could get stolen, or lost..


Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #276 on: June 28, 2012, 12:14:45 PM »
Erick Erickson finds many silver linings, and I think there's merit to some of them...

Quote
Having gone through the opinion, I am not going to beat up on John Roberts. I am disappointed, but I want to make a few points.

First, I get the strong sense from a few anecdotal stories about Roberts over the past few months and the way he has written this opinion that he very, very much was concerned about keeping the Supreme Court above the partisan fray and damaging the reputation of the Court long term. It seems to me the left was smart to make a full frontal assault on the Court as it persuaded Roberts.

Second, in writing his case, Roberts forces everyone to deal with the issue as a political, not a legal issue. In the past twenty years, Republicans have punted a number of issues to the Supreme Court asking the Court to save us from ourselves. They can’t do that with Roberts. They tried with McCain-Feingold, which was originally upheld. This case is a timely reminder to the GOP that five votes are not a sure thing.

Third, while Roberts has expanded the taxation power, which I don’t really think is a massive expansion from what it was, Roberts has curtailed the commerce clause as an avenue for Congressional overreach. In so doing, he has affirmed the Democrats are massive taxers. In fact, I would argue that this may prevent future mandates in that no one is going to go around campaigning on new massive tax increases. On the upside, I guess we can tax the hell out of abortion now. Likewise, in a 7 to 2 decision, the Court shows a strong majority still recognize the concept of federalism and the restrains of Congress in forcing states to adhere to the whims of the federal government.

Fourth, in forcing us to deal with this politically, the Democrats are going to have a hard time running to November claiming the American people need to vote for them to preserve Obamacare. It remains deeply, deeply unpopular with the American people. If they want to make a vote for them a vote for keeping a massive tax increase, let them try.

Fifth, the decision totally removes a growing left-wing talking point that suddenly they must vote for Obama because of judges. The Supreme Court as a November issue is gone. (for them, but not for us; IDP)

Finally, while I am not down on John Roberts like many of you are today, i will be very down on Congressional Republicans if they do not now try to shut down the individual mandate. Force the Democrats on the record about the mandate. Defund Obamacare. This now, by necessity, is a political fight and the GOP sure as hell should fight.

60% of Americans agree with them on the issue. And guess what? The Democrats have been saying for a while that individual pieces of Obamacare are quite popular. With John Roberts’ opinion, the repeal fight takes place on GOP turf, not Democrat turf. The all or nothing repeal has always been better ground for the GOP and now John Roberts has forced everyone onto that ground. Oh, and as I mentioned earlier, because John Roberts concluded it was a tax, the Democrats cannot filibuster its repeal because of the same reconciliation procedure the Democrats used to pass it.

It seems very, very clear to me in reviewing John Roberts’ decision that he is playing a much longer game than us and can afford to with a life tenure. And he probably just handed Mitt Romney the White House.

*A friend points out one other thing — go back to 2009. Olympia Snowe was the deciding vote to get Obamacare out of the Senate Committee. Had she voted no, we’d not be here now.



Small consolation in the process of wallowing in the implications of this.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Gilead

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #277 on: June 28, 2012, 12:22:56 PM »
That's the worst part of it. Roberts SAVED Obamacare. He didn't go over because Kennedy already had and wanted to give a narrow ruling, no, he could have squashed it right then and there.  Government institutions are about the furtherance of the government.  Any connection to a mission of serving the people is long since forgotten.  I guess I'm surprised we even have the expectation.

At this point trying to "salvage" the USA is a fool's game. It needs to be broken apart by whatever means necessary.  It has simply become too large, too populous, and too diverse.  You can't have one country out of that arrangement.  We're just Yugoslavia with better personal hygiene.  We literally have two nations within one territory, and better you believe it is going to come down to which one of them can kill the other one quicker, harder, faster, stronger.  Civil war is inevitable, and I'd rather it start while I am still young and healthy.

Not Civil War, but Revolutionary War II, or is that just semantics?

From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #278 on: June 28, 2012, 12:33:45 PM »
Erick Erickson finds many silver linings, and I think there's merit to some of them...


No Merit that matters. The Court has affirmed that the Fed can compel you to buy things, eat your broccoli, or eat a sh*t sandwich or fine/tax you for your disobedience.  This is Harry Reid's "Paying taxes is voluntary" argument writ large.  After all you can always choose to not pay your taxes, and its not the courts job to protect you from going to jail if you fail to obey your masters.

Repeal won't matter now the that the Constitution says "the Fed can do whatever they want as long as they call it a tax or tax penalty"
The only way this gets reset is via blood. Its either that or accept our slavery.

Offline benb61

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Re: SCOTUS 2012: The Grand Finale
« Reply #279 on: June 28, 2012, 12:37:43 PM »
if we take power this year we will need to start pushing for an amendment to ensure that this will never happen again.
Eschew Obfuscation