Author Topic: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear  (Read 1885 times)

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Offline IronDioPriest

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Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« on: October 02, 2011, 04:24:59 PM »
This is coming from a NYT "Green" blog, so I'm skeptical at the outset as to the cost effectiveness of this technology. Crude oil made from plastic bags adds little of value to our energy needs if it makes a gallon of gas cost more rather than less. But if it can be made to be cost effective - in other words, if the technology can be unleashed without the burden of government artificially driving up the cost of production - this could be a game-changer.

Reaping Oil From Discarded Plastic

Could oil companies soon be picking up your trash?

Agilyx, an Oregon-based start-up, says it has created a system that converts discarded plastic into crude oil. A prototype has been in development for 18 months, and the company says it hopes to start selling commercial versions in about nine months.

The system, an assembly of pipes and vessels that will cost around $5 million, essentially cooks plastics into a gas and then condenses the vapor into a soup of long-chain hydrocarbons that can subsequently be converted into diesel, jet fuel or other substances.

One factory module can turn 40,000 pounds of plastic into 130 barrels of oil a day, and larger modules are on the way, according to Bob Schwarz, Agilyx’s chief financial officer. Roughly a gallon of gas can be squeezed out of seven to 10 pounds of plastic, he said.

While refiners would process landfill oil into final products, trash companies would largely own and operate the machinery to make the basic feedstock. Many systems would by default probably wind up on landfills near large cities. “Plastic is where the population is,” Mr. Schwarz said.

Investors and large corporations are increasingly turning their attention toward technologies for recycling and “resource recovery” to capitalize on the growing tide of waste and rising prices for raw materials. Some describe it as a nascent golden age of garbage.

The total municipal solid waste in the United States has grown from 88.1 million tons in 1960 to approximately 243 million tons a year today, according to figures from the federal Environmental Protection Agency. Regulations provide further motivation: California recently started collecting a recycling tax of 5 cents per square yard on new carpet sales.

Waste Management, the Houston-based national waste pickup company, has invested in Agilyx and a number of other resource recovery companies and has begun to position itself as a resource services company as well, as opposed to your average garbage hauler. Total Energy Ventures international, the venture-capital arm of the French oil giant Total, and Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers have also invested in Agilyx.

Other novel start-ups in resource recovery include Modular Carpet Recycling, which can extract commercially viable nylon from old carpet, and Lehigh Technologies, which has retrofitted a mill for grinding expired pharmaceuticals to recycle rubber.

Ostara Nutrient Recovery Technologies, meanwhile, makes Crystal Green. It’s not a powdered drink mix, but a fertilizer produced with phosphorus extracted from municipal sewage streams.

While virtually everything in waste streams can ultimately be reincarnated, plastic is particularly attractive. Two trillion pounds of plastic now sit in landfills in the United States, accounting for around 25 percent of the nation’s total plastic volume. The global volume of plastic grows 7 to 9 percent a year, according to industry figures.

If a trash hauler wants to start generating methane from organic waste piles, the plastic has to be extracted, Mr. Schwarz of Agilyx noted.

Only a fraction of the plastic in landfills is easily recycled. In some nations, “recycling” plastic actually means burning it for fuel, which creates an even bigger environmental hazard, said Kevin O’Connor, a researcher at University College in Dublin who has created a genetically modified organism that can recycle plastic.

Up to 35 percent of a high-quality polyethylene might be made up of recoverable hydrocarbons, Mr. Schwarz suggests.

Envion, a competitor, also has created a system for cooking plastic into fuel, while Axion International produces railroad ties and other building products with old plastic.

Mr. Schwarz would not say how much this trash crude would cost. But he said that the system would provide owners with a 25 percent rate of return on their investment.

Conventional crude sells for $85 to $95 a barrel; other company executives have suggested in recent months that the system could produce crude for around $52 a barrel and even less over time. I guess we’ll see.
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RickZ

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2011, 06:12:24 PM »
I thought this might be about the development of a car to run on human farts, and how the futures price of beans has had the lid blown off.

//

charlesoakwood

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2011, 07:46:20 PM »

...or the price of corn has gone down because there are no cows to eat it.

Good luck to them.  Oil is where these products came from and if they can profitably reverse them back into
oil they have a winner.  Oh, won't that chap the greenies.  No more horrible plastic to moan about.

How about a refund or buy back on plastic? 
All the bluehairs could be turned out to collect plastic for their keep.


Online ToddF

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2011, 06:23:05 AM »
Quote
Mr. Schwarz would not say how much this trash crude would cost. But he said that the system would provide owners with a 25 percent rate of return on their investment.

Well, Journalism School Retards everywhere, he very would have to say, in order to calculate a ROI.

Quote
This is coming from a NYT "Green" blog, so I'm skeptical at the outset

Again, noted.  Really, this is just step one for a leftist piece of garbage to beg a few hundred million in "loans" from our Energy Department.


Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2011, 06:45:23 AM »

... Really, this is just step one for a leftist piece of garbage to beg a few hundred million in "loans" from our Energy Department.


Yip, that's really the caveat on the whole thing, and I think that's a shame. We know there are answers out there, and science and technology have always found solutions to our challenges at a time in history when we needed them to. But they've done so because capitalism has unleashed the entrepreneurial engine, and driven discovery.

Turning plastic back into oil is all well and good, but it needs to be done for its own sake - because it works well, it's cost effective, it addresses a need, and would be in high demand enough to make it worth the risk of investment and the speculation of profit. If the only criteria used to justify it is that it falls into the government's category of "green", satisfies environmental idiots, and can garner subsidies, it is doomed to failure, waste, fraud, and abuse.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 06:57:28 AM »
"without the burden of government artificially driving up the cost of production"

Yip.  This has corruption and inefficiency written all over it...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline warpmine

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 10:13:44 PM »
I've been working on a little project that could turn liberals back into their basic components but th farmers all say they already have a good source for fertilizer, bovine and horse menure.
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Offline John Florida

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2011, 01:14:30 PM »

... Really, this is just step one for a leftist piece of garbage to beg a few hundred million in "loans" from our Energy Department.


Yip, that's really the caveat on the whole thing, and I think that's a shame. We know there are answers out there, and science and technology have always found solutions to our challenges at a time in history when we needed them to. But they've done so because capitalism has unleashed the entrepreneurial engine, and driven discovery.

Turning plastic back into oil is all well and good, but it needs to be done for its own sake - because it works well, it's cost effective, it addresses a need, and would be in high demand enough to make it worth the risk of investment and the speculation of profit. If the only criteria used to justify it is that it falls into the government's category of "green", satisfies environmental idiots, and can garner subsidies, it is doomed to failure, waste, fraud, and abuse.


 I saw this on the science channel a while back and the problem is and it come as no surprise it's not cost effective.So another engeneering exercise is all it is.

Agilyx on KGW with Keely Chalmers - April 2011.mp4
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 01:19:26 PM by John Florida »
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2011, 02:26:33 PM »
I've been working on a little project that could turn liberals back into their basic components but th farmers all say they already have a good source for fertilizer, bovine and horse menure.

 ::laughonfloor::
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Offline Sectionhand

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2011, 02:14:04 AM »
As a side note , has anyone noticed that "green" has become the principal color in television advertising regardless of the product ? You see "green" in the logos and script of everything from breakfast food to insurance . Don't tell me that there isn't a subliminal message here or that advertisers aren't trying to associate themselves somehow with this sinister movement .

Offline Libertas

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2011, 06:37:24 AM »
As a side note , has anyone noticed that "green" has become the principal color in television advertising regardless of the product ? You see "green" in the logos and script of everything from breakfast food to insurance . Don't tell me that there isn't a subliminal message here or that advertisers aren't trying to associate themselves somehow with this sinister movement .

Typical populist pandering to boost their brand....

Make me want to throw their brand in the toilet...or better yet avoid it entirely!
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2011, 06:56:51 AM »
The thing those manufacturers and advertisers are apparently not taking into account is the visceral gut reaction in someone like me when I see a product touting "Green" cred. It turns me off like nothing else. I'll go out of my way to avoid "Green" products, and I would have to think that I am in a valued target demographic - married, middle-aged, upper-middle-class, children in the home from 6-17. All they do is piss me off and help me check their product or service off the list.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Now THIS could turn the energy world on its ear
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2011, 11:17:20 AM »
As a side note , has anyone noticed that "green" has become the principal color in television advertising regardless of the product ? You see "green" in the logos and script of everything from breakfast food to insurance . Don't tell me that there isn't a subliminal message here or that advertisers aren't trying to associate themselves somehow with this sinister movement .

So many businesses near where we live are advertising how they're going "green".  One doctor's office no longer sends out bills because they're "green".  They send them by email.  I think most of them see it as way to cut costs so they call it going green.

One year when the order form went out for purchasing new gear for my daughter's team I didn't order and instead she got her older sister's gear.  One mom smiled and said you're being green!  HA!  It's called not wasting my money lady.

When I was a kid being "green" was called thrifty and saving.

Like IDP green branding alerts me to look elsewhere.
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