Author Topic: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration  (Read 1993 times)

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Online IronDioPriest

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Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« on: October 06, 2011, 09:21:13 AM »
I'm giving this its own thread because for me as for so many others, Rick Perry's debate answer on in-state tuition for illegal immigrants was a deal-breaker. His poor debate performance overall gives me great concern as to his ability to defeat Obama. But aside from that, it was his answer to that in-state tuition question that took him off my list.

But now I read this interview over at gatewaypundit regarding the Texas in-state tuition law, and Perry's position on sanctuary cities. His answers are succinct, meaningful, believable, reflective of reality and problem-solving, and respecting of federalism and the constitution. But more importantly, his answers do not differ policy-wise from what he said at the debate. The difference is not any flip-flop on the issue. It is an articulation of what he failed so miserably to try to get across at the debate. He essentially tried to say the same thing at the debate, but handled it so poorly that he sent his campaign crashing to earth.

Reading this has me rethinking Perry. Not reversing, because I have doubts about his ability to win - but rethinking. We've only got so many candidates to choose from, and we know the establishment has said they're going to put it in high gear to try to force-feed Romney. There are obviously all kinds of reasons to avoid Romney. We NEED a not-Romney to emerge, fast.

Paul is Nowhere. Santorum is nowhere. Huntsman is no one. Gingrich is not trustworthy. Bachmann is flailing and tanking. Cain is prone to verbal diarrhea. And then there's Perry. $17Million raised in 49 days.

I love Herman Cain, and I think that in a head-to-head, he could beat Obama, IF he can keep control of his mouth. Just yesterday, he says, "If you don't have a job or you're not rich, blame yourself." Now I know what he means in the larger context: pull yourself up by the bootstraps and stop complaining. But critics are right when they say that the Leftists will use that against him in the general election to cynically suggest insensitivity to millions of people who have lost their job through no fault of their own. Verbal gaffes like this pour out of this man's mouth almost daily. The encouraging thing is that so far he seems to wiggle out from under the weight of these statements with relative ease.

But I only speak of Cain in this thread to say that our "not-Romney" choices are very limited. The race could change, but right now, it's Romney, Perry, and Cain. Gingrich and Bachmann are wild-cards, but I see little hope for either, and little reason to support Gingrich. That leaves Perry and Cain.


I'm wanting to start a discussion on whether - in light of his clarified stance on the Texas tuition law posted below - if Rick Perry deserves another look.

Rick Perry Continues to Oppose DREAM Act and Sanctuary Cities

John Hawkins at Right Wing News interviewed Governor Rick Perry this week on immigration issues. If you’re wondering where Rick Perry stands, you will have a better idea after reading this interview.
Here is part of that discussion:

[blockquote]The real question becomes what can we expect from Rick Perry on the issue if he becomes President? That question had yet to be answered — until today. I was pleased to get an opportunity to do an in-depth written interview with Rick Perry that covers his position on illegal immigration. If you’re wondering where Rick Perry stands, after reading this interview, you will know.

[blockquote]You supported the Texas version of the DREAM ACT which incidentally, was very popular in your state. It passed 27-3 in the Senate and 130-2 in the House. However, you would not support the DREAM ACT nationally if you became President of the United States. Why is that?

The federal DREAM Act is an amnesty bill, and I strongly oppose amnesty. The Texas educational residency bill was vastly different.

Because the federal government has failed in its basic duty to protect our borders, states are forced to deal with illegal immigrant issues.

In Texas, we had to deal with the children of illegal immigrants residing in our state and attending our schools, as the federal government requires states to educate these children through the public school system. Lawmakers in Texas – indisputably one of the most conservative states in America – were virtually unanimous in their decision.

The Legislature determined the payment of in-state college tuition is available to all students who have lived in Texas for at least three years and graduated from a public high school. If you meet those requirements, you pay in-state tuition, whether you relocated from Oklahoma, Idaho, Canada or Mexico. The only difference is that Texas residents who aren’t documented must be on the path to pursue U.S. citizenship to be allowed to pay in-state tuition.

There were a number of reasons the bill received widespread support among conservatives. Importantly, it has never had a cost to Texas taxpayers. In fact, our institutions of higher learning would actually lose tens of millions of dollars in lost tuition payments if the law were repealed.

And it would lower the odds that these students would receive subsidized health care or end up in prison. Protecting taxpayers was a serious concern, given that a Supreme Court decree already requires taxpayers to pay for K-12 education for undocumented students.


Now you worked to outlaw sanctuary cities in Texas. Tell us why that is.

I called for abolishing sanctuary cities in my last State of the State address, and made it an emergency item for the Legislature. I’m a firm believer in giving law enforcement the discretion they need to do their job. Sanctuary city policies handcuff law enforcement officers in order to further a political agenda.[/blockquote]

« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 09:25:18 AM by IronDioPriest »
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2011, 10:35:57 AM »
Okay IDP..  That gives me pause.

I wonder at his lack of ability to articulate that during a debate.  He should be experienced enough to do it.

Anyway, I will think about this.  There's still the gardisil issue for me but I may have to get over that and accept his claim he made a mistake.
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Online Libertas

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2011, 11:57:22 AM »
Let's see where this goes...I'm more upset about a possible Romney candidacy than a Perry one, but Cain is still leading my preference list.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online ToddF

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2011, 12:05:41 PM »
I don't like everything Perry has done, but he hasn't gone full retard on anything.  I would vote for Perry.  I would vote for Cain.  Other than possible Newt who's sneaking up a little in the polls I don't see anyone else that's even in the race at this point, really, as...

I will not vote for Mittens.  Full Retard on global warming, as was reported in today's WSJ.  Just...no.


Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2011, 12:24:43 PM »
Actions speak louder than words.
His in state tuition program position is BS. He tries to shove it off as being texans that pay for this.
I bet every university and college in Texas receives federal funds.
That's my money.

I don't want another compassionate conservative from Texas

Offline Janny

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2011, 01:27:28 PM »
Actions speak louder than words.
His in state tuition program position is BS. He tries to shove it off as being texans that pay for this.
I bet every university and college in Texas receives federal funds.
That's my money.

I don't want another compassionate conservative from Texas

I'm with you on this. I can't stomach his defense of the in state tuition, for a lot of reasons.

If he's nominated, I'll vote against Obama, not for him. I hope I don't have to make that choice, though.

Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2011, 01:39:03 PM »
I'm guessing it will be Romney.
Most money, his turn, most establishment

Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2011, 01:43:14 PM »
I'm guessing it will be Romney.
Most money, his turn, most establishment

Then it'll likely be Obama. I think enough of the base of the GOP is dead-serious about no longer supporting RINOs that the establishment puke out every four years since Reagan, that Romney will deliver Obama.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2011, 02:28:59 PM »
I'm guessing it will be Romney.
Most money, his turn, most establishment

Then it'll likely be Obama. I think enough of the base of the GOP is dead-serious about no longer supporting RINOs that the establishment puke out every four years since Reagan, that Romney will deliver Obama.

A lot of the base and something not recently mentioned but still out there is the number of people that have
a problem with him being a Mormon.  I think the MSM is holding this story back until he obtains the nomination.


Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2011, 02:38:36 PM »


A lot of the base and something not recently mentioned but still out there is the number of people that have
a problem with him being a Mormon.  I think the MSM is holding this story back until he obtains the nomination.



Heard that a lot last time around.  Now nary a word.  I think you're right.  The msm will be asking him about it come January.
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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2011, 02:52:02 PM »
Yip. It was front and center last go-round because Huckabee made it an issue. And the sad reality is that there are a lot of evangelical Christians who will never, ever vote for a Mormon. There's a lot of reasons not to vote for Mitt Romney in my mind, and Mormonism is not on the list.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2011, 02:54:45 PM »
Yip. It was front and center last go-round because Huckabee made it an issue. And the sad reality is that there are a lot of evangelical Christians who will never, ever vote for a Mormon. There's a lot of reasons not to vote for Mitt Romney in my mind, and Mormonism is not on the list.

I agree.  My cousin said she couldn't vote for a Mormon (she's Baptist) and my mom reminded her that Mormons are family values folks like her.  I don't think my cousin was persuaded. 
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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2011, 03:01:09 PM »
Yip. It was front and center last go-round because Huckabee made it an issue. And the sad reality is that there are a lot of evangelical Christians who will never, ever vote for a Mormon. There's a lot of reasons not to vote for Mitt Romney in my mind, and Mormonism is not on the list.

I agree.  My cousin said she couldn't vote for a Mormon (she's Baptist) and my mom reminded her that Mormons are family values folks like her.  I don't think my cousin was persuaded. 

I know. You look at Mormons as a "community" (man, I hate that word, but sometimes it's the best word), and by-and-large they are the kinds of people you want as your neighbors. Hard-working, family oriented, traditional values, giving, high-achievers...

Some evangelical Christians can't get over the "cult" thing they've been taught about Mormonism. And technically, because it is an extra-Biblical variation of Christianity, I can see justification for Christians rejecting the religion. But the connotation of a "cult" is a negative one. Cults are harmful to people here, on this earth. Mormonism harms no one, except the soul of the Mormon on Judgment Day - and that is between a man and his God. In regards to a President, I'm concerned with how his faith impacts his decision making, and in that regard, I see nothing to fear from Mitt Romney or any other Mormon based on religion alone.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2011, 03:21:26 PM »

So it's clear that they are holding back,
the Mormon schtick they are going to pull is right under the crust. 

The Huckster used it last time, I should have remembered.
I pushed so hard for Romney last time and we have learned
so much more about him in just the last six months.  Mr. 60%.

Buying a get out of jail card he says, the only other option in '08 was McCain.



Online Libertas

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2011, 09:24:25 PM »
I know they are holding that in reserve, it is their MO.  Personally I don't care for the Mormon religion...the whole lost tribe/fantasy-dream thing leaves me cold...but they are strong pro-family people who are frugal and hard working...so I have no problem counting them as allies.  My problem with Romney is his poor choices and tightly packaged presentation.  He can make some clever quips, but Romneycare, climate change et al bother the heck out of me.  He makes me think he is the AlGore of Ruling Class Repub's.  I say "just say no way"!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2011, 11:14:21 AM »

Whelp, judging from the Fox interviews this morning one of the candidates (Santorum?) called cult.
It would have just required too much class to wait and allow the commies to pull that out of their butt.


charlesoakwood

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2011, 12:02:49 PM »
Santorum? No!

That's what assumptions cause, bad information.  Here's a clip.

Link

Quote

...
Bryan Fischer, a director at the American Family Association, who was slated to speak directly after the candidate took the stage Saturday.

Fischer has claimed that Mormons and Muslims have "a completely different definition of who Christ is" than the founding fathers did, and do not deserve First Amendment protections as a consequence.

Without naming Fischer, Romney said those comments are out of bounds.

"One of the speakers who will follow me today, has crossed that line," Romney said. "Poisonous language does not advance our cause. It has never softened a single heart nor changed a single mind. The blessings of faith carry the responsibility of civil and respectful debate."
...




charlesoakwood

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2011, 01:18:14 PM »

There is also this idiot who was publicly berated by William Bennett
Quote
The Reverend Jeffress And Mormons

Yesterday at the Value Voters Summit, Texas Governor Rick Perry was introduced by the Reverend Robert Jeffress. This, according to the Washington Post, is how the introduction went.

Quote
    2:27 pm: Texas Gov. Rick Perry is introduced by Southern Baptist Convention leader Robert Jeffress, who endorsed the candidate recently. Jeffress called Perry “the most pro-life governor in the United States of America.” He also alluded to Perry’s recent debate fumbles, saying, “do we want a candidate who is skilled in rhetoric, or one who is skilled in leadership?”

    Perry came on stage to loud, enthusiastic applause.

What generated the news were remarks made by Rev. Jeffress after Governor Perry’s speech when Politico’s Alexander Burns he was asked if Mitt Romney is a Christian.


HT:The Other McCain


charlesoakwood

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2011, 01:39:10 PM »
Quote

Politico

Jeffress said that he had not spoken with Perry about his views on Romney's faith and was “in no way speaking for him.” In an email, Perry campaign spokesman Robert Black said that the campaign didn’t choose Jeffress to introduce Perry and does not share his view of Mormonism.


There are at least four "mega churches" in Texas.
Three of them:

Second Baptist Church in Houston, TX.  Dr. Ed Young
Lakewood Church, Houston, Joel Osteen
Cornerstone Church, San Antonio, John Hagee

Each one of these churches within the community is nationally known. 
Hagee appeared onstage with Glenn Beck at his DC rally and on his TV programs. 
All of these ministers represent the community well.  Who invited this kook to introduce Perry?


Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Rick Perry and Illegal Immigration
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2011, 07:27:40 PM »
I'm no fan of Romney.

But I hate this religious bigotry junk.   

And will defend Romney on that alone.

I suspect that many Christians today if confronted with someone with Geo. Washington's beliefs or Thomas Jefferson's would reject them as leaders because it doesn't fit neatly into their religious views...

They were no different than people today trying to define God and religion in their lives.

If someone seeks office who has the same values as I on various issues then where and if he or she worships doesn't matter to me.


...that said I'd be hard pressed to vote for a muslim.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."