Author Topic: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges  (Read 4201 times)

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Offline IronDioPriest

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In my opinion the Wisconsin GOP needed to do this about a week ago.

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WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges

Patience has worn thin in Madison with the fleebaggers.  After Wisconsin’s Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald attempted to negotiate an end to the impasse over the budget-repair bill and got rebuffed, Republicans took a much tougher stance this afternoon.  Accusing Democrats of holding democracy “hostage,” the Senate passed a measure giving absent Democrats until 4 pm today to appear — or face charges of contempt that could result in their detention by law enforcement:[blockquote]Republicans in the state Senate ordered Democrats on Thursday to return to the chamber by 4 p.m. or be found in contempt of the Senate – a move that means Democrats could be taken into custody.

“We simply cannot have democracy be held hostage because the minority wants to prove a point,” said Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau).

Senate Democrats have been out of the state since Feb. 17 to prevent passage of GOP Gov. Scott Walker’s budget-repair bill. At least 20 senators must be present to pass the bill, but Republicans hold just 19 seats.

Fitzgerald said that Republicans were initially “nervous” about taking such a step but that Democrats have created a “constitutional crisis.”

“This is not about a budget-repair bill or about politics,” Fitzgerald said. “This is much bigger than that and the minority party has forced our hand… They’re insulting the very fabric of our representative democracy.”[/blockquote]Fox 6 in Madison says this is not quite the same as issuing warrants, but it’s the step just prior to it:[blockquote]Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald says the action is legally different from an arrest, but “definitely a shift from asking them politely.”

The resolution says the absent Democrats are determined to be guilty of contempt and disorderly content. It gives the sergeant at arms the authority to take any and all steps, with or without force and assistance from police, to bring the senators back.[/blockquote]The action comes after Democrats rejected an offer to debate the provisions of the budget-repair bill in the next full-budget bill:[blockquote]Sen. Tim Cullen of Janesville, one of the two Democrats at the meeting, said Fitzgerald made clear in the talks that Republicans would not alter their budget-repair proposal, which passed the state Assembly last week. But Cullen said the two sides talked about adjusting the larger 2011-’13 budget bill to address problems that Democrats and unions have with the budget-repair bill.

“Some of the provisions in the budget-repair bill don’t go into effect for months, so you could change them in the budget bill,” Cullen said.

Cullen declined to cite the exact provisions. He said that the two Democrats had made an offer to Fitzgerald and the GOP lawmaker had made a counteroffer that Fitzgerald had talked about with both Walker and his brother, Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald (R-Horicon).

Cullen said he saw the counteroffer as a positive development but that it “wasn’t sufficient.” He said that he didn’t tell other Senate Democrats about the meeting beforehand but did afterward.[/blockquote]This raises a serious question of whether law enforcement will cooperate with the legislature.   They have acted professionally in keeping the capital grounds and building open during the protest and protecting the legislators — those who bother to show up, that is.  But their unions have already expressed support for the demonstrations in Madison, and even apart from that, may be reluctant to execute warrants in a political dispute.

Either way, it shows that the GOP has decided that Democrats won’t negotiate an end to the impasse, but instead believe that their minority caucus can and should dictate outcomes to the majority without engaging in actual representative democracy.  This standoff will clarify even further the “hostaging” of democracy by Democrats in Wisconsin.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

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Online ToddF

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 03:02:28 PM »
I seriously want to know when the seats can be declared vacant.

Small part of the story no one seems to want to get to.

Offline Glock32

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 03:25:05 PM »
Quote
This raises a serious question of whether law enforcement will cooperate with the legislature.   They have acted professionally in keeping the capital grounds and building open during the protest and protecting the legislators — those who bother to show up, that is.  But their unions have already expressed support for the demonstrations in Madison, and even apart from that, may be reluctant to execute warrants in a political dispute.

If that proves to be the case, then we really do have a problem don't we? Our whole system of government has been undermined since Chairman Zero took office, and we all know he's right in the thick of this despite it being a state issue. We seem to have a rogue executive, and the state level executive agencies are taking this cue too. The executive is charged with enforcing the law, not the laws they feel like enforcing, or just the laws they agree with, but all of it.

I'm (so far) heartened to see that the WI Republicans are prepared to play hardball.
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 03:46:33 PM »
...I'm (so far) heartened to see that the WI Republicans are prepared to play hardball.

I am too, but the longer this thing drags out, it seems to me the more possibility there is of Pubbies caving in, and that would be utterly disastrous. Every day a new poll comes out that seems to counter favorability of what Walker is trying to do. These polls aren't asking the right questions, but still. I'm sure the fleebaggers ran away for exactly this reason - not to prevent a vote so much as to buy time for the machine to turn sentiment against Walker and the WI senate GOP, or at least create pressure and the illusion of turning tides.

They needed to act more boldly, sooner. As soon as the fleebaggers ran, they should have scheduled a vote on concealed carry and voter ID. that may have been enough to get them back to the table.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Glock32

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2011, 04:09:20 PM »
I agree. That's why I wish they would enact a parliamentary rule stating any absent legislator is counted as a 'Nay'. That way they can't really argue that the process was hijacked, because any measure that passes with an assumed 'Nay' vote would have passed anyway.

What bothers me even more than the particular issues at hand is the way the process itself is being insulted. They were entrusted by the citizens of their district with the responsibility (and honor) of representing them in the legislature. They are refusing to do so, and furthermore by holding up the process they effectively deny all the citizens of other districts their right to have their will expressed in the legislature. The consequences for this sort of thing should be complete and immediate. It's such blatantly dirty pool...deciding the rules of the game have changed when it's the opponent's turn.
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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2011, 07:11:39 PM »
Levin just announced arrest warrants have been issued .....
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline rickl

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 07:31:56 PM »
...I'm (so far) heartened to see that the WI Republicans are prepared to play hardball.

I am too, but the longer this thing drags out, it seems to me the more possibility there is of Pubbies caving in, and that would be utterly disastrous. Every day a new poll comes out that seems to counter favorability of what Walker is trying to do. These polls aren't asking the right questions, but still. I'm sure the fleebaggers ran away for exactly this reason - not to prevent a vote so much as to buy time for the machine to turn sentiment against Walker and the WI senate GOP, or at least create pressure and the illusion of turning tides.

They needed to act more boldly, sooner. As soon as the fleebaggers ran, they should have scheduled a vote on concealed carry and voter ID. that may have been enough to get them back to the table.

Neo-neocon has also been talking about the polls.  I've long believed that polls have more to with molding public opinion, rather than reflecting it.

Just like many members of the news media, who are more interested in "changing the world" or "making a difference" rather than simply reporting what happened.
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2011, 07:55:21 PM »
Neo-neocon has also been talking about the polls.  I've long believed that polls have more to with molding public opinion, rather than reflecting it.

Just like many members of the news media, who are more interested in "changing the world" or "making a difference" rather than simply reporting what happened.

Absolutely YES. It makes a difference if the question is "Should middle-class working men and women have their collective bargaining rights stripped?" or "Should public sector unions have the ability to lobby the Democrat party for tax increases in exchange for campaign contributions?"

Both questions address the same issue, and both will garner an opposite response. Seeing these polls coming out is enough to drive me mad. Walker and the WI GOP should have seen this coming, and drawn the line in the sand much sooner.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2011, 08:39:34 PM »
Quote
collective bargaining rights

They're not rights, and the faulty premise is set by mis-characterizing them as such in the poll question.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline warpmine

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2011, 09:13:06 PM »
Quote
collective bargaining rights

They're not rights, and the faulty premise is set by mis-characterizing them as such in the poll question.

Bingo! A right is something we're naturally born with as opposed to a privilege or permission granted is something the government can issue.
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2011, 09:35:18 PM »
Wisconsin's Walker vows no compromise on unions

(Reuters) - Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker vowed on Thursday never to compromise on the core of his plan to curb the power of public sector unions and said investors should buy the state's bonds precisely because he was taking a tough stance.

In an interview with Reuters Insider exactly two weeks after state Senate Democrats fled to Illinois to stall action on Walker's proposal, he said public sector unions must be reined in to allow local governments to cut costs.

"I want to be different. I want to be unique. I want to be an innovator here and give my local governments the ability to manage their own budgets. On that part, we can't compromise," the newly elected Republican said...

More @ Reuters.com...
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 07:16:27 AM »
Gov is holding tough, and now he's saying layoff notices go out today!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WISCONSIN_BUDGET_WALKER?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-03-03-16-38-35

So you wanna play hardball do ya?!

 ::thumbsup::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline AlanS

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 10:53:57 AM »
Levin just announced arrest warrants have been issued .....

Members of the legislature can NOT be arrested while they are in session. Even if they're not there. I think this is more of a "Hold them in custody" type thing to drag thier carcasses back to IN where they belong.

I wonder how long they have to be gone before the seat becomes vacant? Anyone know? If I don't show for work, we get replaced.
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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 03:02:33 PM »
Levin just announced arrest warrants have been issued .....

Members of the legislature can NOT be arrested while they are in session. Even if they're not there. I think this is more of a "Hold them in custody" type thing to drag thier carcasses back to IN where they belong.

I wonder how long they have to be gone before the seat becomes vacant? Anyone know? If I don't show for work, we get replaced.

The difference here is the Democrats are very much NOT IN SESSION.  Which, to my way of thinking, is the point.  And, "to hold in custody" is detainment, thus, arrest.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline John Florida

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 03:09:38 PM »
Gov is holding tough, and now he's saying layoff notices go out today!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WISCONSIN_BUDGET_WALKER?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-03-03-16-38-35

So you wanna play hardball do ya?!

 ::thumbsup::


  Do what Rhode Island did and fire all of them.And notify them when the school year starts as to who has a job and who doesn't.
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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 07:32:32 PM »
According to Gateway Pundit, the WI House Dems moved their desks outside yesterday in order to "meet with the people they represent", read:  union thugs and protesters, who, of course, are not allowed inside, in defiance of a court order, say the D's.

It just keeps getting worse and worse ... all of it.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline John Florida

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2011, 08:32:47 PM »
According to Gateway Pundit, the WI House Dems moved their desks outside yesterday in order to "meet with the people they represent", read:  union thugs and protesters, who, of course, are not allowed inside, in defiance of a court order, say the D's.

It just keeps getting worse and worse ... all of it.

 That's nice. Who gives a crap.They can all have a nice night of slap and tickle for all I care.They're hanging with out of staters.
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Offline radioman

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2011, 08:20:33 AM »
I seriously want to know when the seats can be declared vacant.

Small part of the story no one seems to want to get to.

I agree that the seats should be declared 'vacated' after 48 hours, and the guv appoint new senators from a long list of his crony friends.
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: WI Senate orders fleebaggers to return or face contempt charges
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2011, 09:04:12 AM »
That's a good video to show anyone who still doesn't get it. Very easy to understand and succinct.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson