Topic: Herman Cain's 999 Plan

[Janny]

The function of the current IRS is to collect revenues and enforce tax laws.  

The problem with the current system and the IRS as we know it, is the TAX CODE, which is too complex.  Another system, like the "Fair Tax" where complex "exceptions" are made will not fix it. Simplifying it, by imposing a flat tax and eliminating deductions is what will "fix" it. The "prebate" systems sounds like a recipe for disaster, to me.

The allegation that there will no longer be a federal government entity like the IRS under a Fair tax system doesn't hold water. There will always be a federal government entity of SOME KIND to collect taxes and enforce tax laws. It doesn't need to be nearly as complex as our current "system" is. That's the argument I'm making.

[Janny]

Excuse me...but you did state to keep the IRS in place. If you believe the current system, all 7500 pages, could implement a flat tax you are being dishonest with yourself.

I didn't realize that the entire existence of IRS is completely dependent on keeping the exact same TAX CODE that we have now. Keeping the IRS in place WHILE making DRASTIC changes to the tax code do not equal "keeping the current system."

I thought I was pretty clear on what I was saying. I do not favor keeping the TAX CODE as it is.

Your inability or unwillingness to understand what I'm saying is getting tiresome.

[Janny]

The current tax code is A BIG problem.

link here

The various calls to revamp the nation’s highly complex tax code were joined by a significant new voice on Wednesday — the I.R.S.’s own taxpayer advocate, who urged that the system be rewritten for the first time in a generation.

Nina E. Olson, the national tax advocate who acts as an ombudsman for the I.R.S., issued a sweeping criticism of federal tax policy in her annual report to Congress. Ms. Olson found that the volume of the tax code had nearly tripled in size during the last decade — to 3.8 million words in February 2010 from 1.4 million in 2001. She estimated that Americans spent 6.1 billion hours preparing their returns each year — the equivalent of 3 million employees working full time. By comparison, the federal payroll has 2.1 million full-time workers.

The byzantine tax regulations also deprived the government of revenue by causing accidental underpayments and encouraging cheating, the report concluded, stating that the most practical remedy would be for Congress to scrap the existing code, which was last overhauled in 1986.

“The time for tax reform and tax simplification is now,” Ms. Olson said.

While the report amplifies many frequently voiced criticisms, and is likely to be welcomed by many of the tax critics who ignited the Tea Party movement, most policy experts consider it unlikely that the federal government will take up the issue before the 2012 presidential election.

Howard Gleckman, an analyst at the Tax Policy Center, has said that neither President Obama nor Congress has shown any eagerness to confront the combination of spending cuts and rate increases that would be needed to address the budget deficit.

Still, the fact that the I.R.S.’s own internal watchdog concedes that the federal tax system has become unmanageable underscores the severity of the problem.

For what it's worth, this is from the NYTimes.

[Predator Don]

Excuse me...but you did state to keep the IRS in place. If you believe the current system, all 7500 pages, could implement a flat tax you are being dishonest with yourself.

I didn't realize that the entire existence of IRS is completely dependent on keeping the exact same TAX CODE that we have now. Keeping the IRS in place WHILE making DRASTIC changes to the tax code do not equal "keeping the current system."

I thought I was pretty clear on what I was saying. I do not favor keeping the TAX CODE as it is.

Your inability or unwillingness to understand what I'm saying is getting tiresome.

If you believe keeping the basic structure (and power) of the IRS in place to collect revenue of a flat tax, after you have given up your deductions sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

Your inability or unwillingness to understand what I'm saying is getting amusing.

[Libertas]

Perhaps we can all agree that the IRS must go.  Yes?

And whether under Cain's 9-9-9 or some other simplified tax plan, a new (tiny!) government agency responsible for collection could be had. Just as long as the bloody IRS is utterely wiped out along with the old tax code!

[Predator Don]

Perhaps we can all agree that the IRS must go.  Yes?

And whether under Cain's 9-9-9 or some other simplified tax plan, a new (tiny!) government agency responsible for collection could be had. Just as long as the bloody IRS is utterely wiped out along with the old tax code!

I don't want the IRS in charge of any plan.  I sure as hell don't want to implement something different, give up deductions and find our blessed gov't raises the flat tax because they can't control spending.

It's why I'll support the 999 plan (at this time), even with its imperfections. If it is a plan that severly reduces or eliminates the IRS, while simplifying tax collection, we can work around the nuances and make corrections.

[Libertas]

Perhaps we can all agree that the IRS must go.  Yes?

And whether under Cain's 9-9-9 or some other simplified tax plan, a new (tiny!) government agency responsible for collection could be had. Just as long as the bloody IRS is utterely wiped out along with the old tax code!

I don't want the IRS in charge of any plan.  I sure as hell don't want to implement something different, give up deductions and find our blessed gov't raises the flat tax because they can't control spending.

It's why I'll support the 999 plan (at this time), even with its imperfections. If it is a plan that severly reduces or eliminates the IRS, while simplifying tax collection, we can work around the nuances and make corrections.

And we're back to where I was thinking about a zillion posts ago.

I'm the hotheaded ideologue and even I think this makes sense.

 

[charlesoakwood]

Changing the tax code will be a monster.  Abolishing the IRS is virtually insurmountable.
It is one of the largest bureaucracies and they have every body's file.

Three presidents have tried to eliminate the BATF and not succeeded.

[Libertas]

It's because they never have enough political capital directed to that end.  A new president making this the top priority above all others and hitting it head on right out the gate could get it done.  How can we pass a healthcare bill everybody hates and not legislation that ends the reign of one of the most despised government agencies ever created?  People need to man up!

[Predator Don]

Changing the tax code will be a monster.  Abolishing the IRS is virtually insurmountable.
It is one of the largest bureaucracies and they have every body's file.

Three presidents have tried to eliminate the BATF and not succeeded.

It will be quite the undertaking, especially in lite republicans tend to take a conservative interpretation of law. If we had no morals or ethics like libs, twist laws or ignore them completely, it could be shoved in like healthcare. I'm not advocating it, just could make it quicker.....

I'll hand it to libs, many fell on the knife for socialism, even a few who I had a wee bit amount of trust. Just goes to show the only good lib is a defeated lib.

[charlesoakwood]

Heard a bit of an interview with Steve Wynn, the casino owner, he talked to his representative
and she said she understood, her husband was a doctor but if she didn't vote "right" she would
be punished.

He also talked to Harry Reid who he contributed to, before the conversation was over Harry
hung up on him.

He said Americans need to wake up and realize what's going on.

[Pandora]

Heard a bit of an interview with Steve Wynn, the casino owner, he talked to his representative
and she said she understood, her husband was a doctor but if she didn't vote "right" she would
be punished.

He also talked to Harry Reid who he contributed to, before the conversation was over Harry
hung up on him.

He said Americans need to wake up and realize what's going on.

Duh Wun no sooner took office and he began "punishing" Nevada; as if that isn't enough for Wynn's rep., so she had a choice to make and now she'll see how much she likes voter-inflicted punishment.

[charlesoakwood]

Berkley-Reid-Obama - They've Made It Worse