Topic: Herman Cain's 999 Plan

[BMG]

@Janny:

I encourage you to read back over this entire thread if you haven't had a chance to do so yet, we've dug into the 9-9-9 Plan pretty well (for a bunch of laymen anyway ). You can follow some of the links and dig deeper into 9-9-9 yourself.

As I posted in a previous post in this thread (post #44):

"The current tax system would disappear, and be replaced with these three simple measures. Cain has been a supporter of the “Fair Tax” in the past, but believes this is an interim approach that the American people would be willing to accept right now."

What Cain is attempting to do with this 9-9-9 plan is to strip away all your other taxes so that you'll be paying considerably less than you are now. This 9-9-9 Plan is a stepping stone toward full implementation of the FAIR Tax which he is planing to install at some point during his administration.  

Therefore (also as posted on a previous post #34), a middle income taxpayer that makes $55,000 per year would pay $9,319 in combined taxes, coming to 16.9 percent of their income (under the 9-9-9 Plan). Today, that individual would pay $9,875 and would pay 17.95 percent of their income in taxes.

Now, having said all that; I'm fuzzy on the effects of the 9-9-9 Plan on State taxes. I'll try to snoop around and see if I can get any clarification. But all indications I've found so far are pointing to the fact that under 9-9-9 just as with the FAIR Tax, your tax burden will decrease. In the case of the FAIR Tax, the average tax payer pays 45% tax (this figure INCLUDES embedded AND State taxes) and under the FAIR Tax, that burden will decrease to 23%. How 9-9-9 impacts this figure I am uncertain. Bear in mind that 9-9-9 is a stepping stone to the FAIR Tax and Mr. Cain is supposedly planing to get the FAIR Tax instituted at some point during his administration.

[Predator Don]

THE endorsement that matters

Godfather of Supply-Side Economics Supports Cain's '9-9-9' Plan

Famed supply-side economist Art Laffer told HUMAN EVENTS that Cain's "9-9-9" plan was a pro-growth plan that would create the proper conditions for America's economy to grow and thrive again.

"Mr. Cain’s plan is simple, transparent, neutral with respect to capital and labor, and savings and consumption, and also greatly decreases the hidden costs of tax compliance. There is no doubt that economic growth would surge upon implementation of 9-9-9."

I'm appreciative Art agrees with me.


OK...The rest of you......Dang. You gonna throw him under the bus because of one small part of his plan you MAY not agree?
We FINALLY get a candidate who doesn't necessarily act like a politican, who thinks like a businessman ( which imo, is what we need), building his brand, has momentum....and we will go galt because of an "empowerment zone"?? WTF? We don't even know what it is, but we think we know.... And hell, it may turn out to be EXACTLY what some think it is, so I guess the question becomes will ONE point of contention make him a non starter?

It would be unreasonable.

[BMG]

@AP:

As I understand it, as with the FAIR Tax, Cain's 9-9-9 Plan applies ONLY to new items - not used items. So used cars, houses, etc are only taxed ONCE - when they are new. If resold, there is no further tax burden on those items.

Similarly, it operates like the FAIR Tax in that the tax applies to all goods AND services. So you would pay the tax at the point of sale (eliminating the IRS) which would include services for things like, hair cuts, 401k-related operational fees, etc.

[BMG]

I'm seeing several people wondering why the tax rate in this 9-9-9 Plan is 9%. Here's what I found:

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-bargain-hunter/2011/10/03/wes-moss-would-you-pay-more-taxes-under-999-plan/

This is an excerpt from the above-posted link in case anyone wishes to go there and read the whole piece.

"Where did Cain come up with 9 percent? One of his campaign slogans is, “If 10 is good enough for God, then nine is good enough for Washington.” That’s great marketing, but there’s more to the explanation, and my bet is that is has roots in “Hauser’s Law.”

Economist William Hauser discovered that no matter what the top tax rate is, the federal government’s tax revenues equal roughly 19.5 percent of the Gross Domestic Product. When top rates were 92 percent in 1952, the U.S. collected roughly 19 percent of GDP. When top rates were 28 percent in 1988, the U.S. collected roughly 18 percent — almost the same amount despite drastically different rates.

By my calculations, Cain’s plan would generate $2.19 trillion in tax revenue in 2011.

Is that enough to run the country? The U.S. treasury had 2010 tax revenues of $2.16 trillion. So if Washington could get its deficit spending under control and sop up some of its debt, the government could function well on the revenue generated by the 999 plan. Plus — and this is a big plus — the new policy would prompt economic growth."

[Alphabet Soup]

Don - I've been trying to refrain from verbalizing what I would like to see happen in favor of what I think will happen. Within this context I see a problem with the "Empowerment Zone" aspect of his plan. That means we need more clarification from Cain. I'm not writing him off by any stretch.

[Predator Don]

Don - I've been trying to refrain from verbalizing what I would like to see happen in favor of what I think will happen. Within this context I see a problem with the "Empowerment Zone" aspect of his plan. That means we need more clarification from Cain. I'm not writing him off by any stretch.

I'm just  frustrated. It's nothing personal on my part. If the empowerment zone ended up what we fear, I would still back the plan because 90+ % would be beneficial for the country. I'm also selfish because I KNOW a tax plan such as this would be good for my business. Every business. Since it  a stepping stone to a fair tax, i'm willing to endure an aspect I don't appreciate, understanding after its acceptence and as jobs grow, accepting a fair tax by the masses would be an easier sell. Well, except to the socialists.


There is a forest out there and I don't want the trees to get in the way.

[Delnorin]

Don - I've been trying to refrain from verbalizing what I would like to see happen in favor of what I think will happen. Within this context I see a problem with the "Empowerment Zone" aspect of his plan. That means we need more clarification from Cain. I'm not writing him off by any stretch.

I'm certainly not writing him off either.  He's the one who I plan on voting for still.  No question.  But I intend to get answers to my questions too.

[AmericanPatriot]

I'm not writing him off either.
Even though I have read the whole thread my blond, senile, ADHD brain doesn't retain info like it did.
I apologize for asking questions that have already been answered.

What about excise taxes such as the fed gas tax ($.184/gallon), phone excise taxes, etc.

Personally, I think 401(k)s should be treated like Roth IRAs.
You paid the tax upfront, you keep the growth

But, the IRS still lives.

[BMG]

@AP:

From post #44 in this thread:

"The current tax system would disappear, and be replaced with these three simple measures. Cain has been a supporter of the “Fair Tax” in the past, but believes this is an interim approach that the American people would be willing to accept right now."

The way I understand it, if it's a federal tax then this 9-9-9 Plan will nullify it.

[Predator Don]

I'm not writing him off either.
Even though I have read the whole thread my blond, senile, ADHD brain doesn't retain info like it did.
I apologize for asking questions that have already been answered.

What about excise taxes such as the fed gas tax ($.184/gallon), phone excise taxes, etc.

Personally, I think 401(k)s should be treated like Roth IRAs.
You paid the tax upfront, you keep the growth

But, the IRS still lives.

I've thought on these also. Death tax, retirement accounts, etc.

But we need a starting point and Cains plan appears to be a good start. If we are fortunate enough to implement Cains plan, as it becomes successful, imo, changing other forms of taxation will be easier.

[Janny]

@AP:

As I understand it, as with the FAIR Tax, Cain's 9-9-9 Plan applies ONLY to new items - not used items. So used cars, houses, etc are only taxed ONCE - when they are new. If resold, there is no further tax burden on those items.



Similarly, it operates like the FAIR Tax in that the tax applies to all goods AND services. So you would pay the tax at the point of sale (eliminating the IRS) which would include services for things like, hair cuts, 401k-related operational fees, etc.

And thus people will be encouraged to buy used items, vs. new items.

I reviewed the Fair tax several years ago, and it struck me as anything but fair.

The 9-9-9 only applies to federal taxation. That was my point. We are still subject to state and local taxes. If I buy a new car, or another high dollar item, I will be paying 18% on top of the price in taxes. That woukd amount to a huge sum of money. I don't see how it would be offset by the decrease in income tax. in fact, I think we'll get soaked.

I love the idea of Simplifying the tax code, but this doesn't seem like the solution to me. I favor a flat (income) tax.

[Janny]

The way I understand it, if it's a federal tax then this 9-9-9 Plan will nullify it.

And that is the chief reason why this plan will never get off the ground. There is no way all those excise taxes and fees will ever go away. There are too many regulatory agencies, etc. receiving pieces of that pie.

[Pandora]

THE endorsement that matters

Godfather of Supply-Side Economics Supports Cain's '9-9-9' Plan

Famed supply-side economist Art Laffer told HUMAN EVENTS that Cain's "9-9-9" plan was a pro-growth plan that would create the proper conditions for America's economy to grow and thrive again.

"Mr. Cain’s plan is simple, transparent, neutral with respect to capital and labor, and savings and consumption, and also greatly decreases the hidden costs of tax compliance. There is no doubt that economic growth would surge upon implementation of 9-9-9."

I'm appreciative Art agrees with me.


OK...The rest of you......Dang. You gonna throw him under the bus because of one small part of his plan you MAY not agree?
We FINALLY get a candidate who doesn't necessarily act like a politican, who thinks like a businessman ( which imo, is what we need), building his brand, has momentum....and we will go galt because of an "empowerment zone"?? WTF? We don't even know what it is, but we think we know.... And hell, it may turn out to be EXACTLY what some think it is, so I guess the question becomes will ONE point of contention make him a non starter?

It would be unreasonable.

I'm not throwing him under the bus either, but I'm not giving him -- or any of them -- a pass on unanswered aspects/questions.  Just want to thoroughly vet and fact-check everything without being unreasonable, although there are some one points of contention that, for me, are non-starters.  I suspect we all have them. 

I don't see it, or take it, as personal and would hate for that issue to raise its ugly head here this election as it did during the last.

[IronDioPriest]

...I don't see it, or take it, as personal and would hate for that issue to raise its ugly head here this election as it did during the last.

We can't allow that to happen. We're all entitled to our opinion. Already, there is the basic division between those who say they will vote against Obama no matter what, and those who've had enough and will not vote for an unacceptable conservative nominee. so far, it has not caused any vitriol.

As of now, I'm in the former category - I'll vote for the GOP nominee out of a need to dispense with Obama. But I'll be damned if I'm going to fault anyone for saying "enough is enough". The "no more" sentiment may not guide my actions in the voting booth, but I'd be a fool to say that I cannot understand and respect where it's coming from.

We just need to remember that when it comes to something as personal as an individual vote, we are all entitled to deal with that duty as our conscience dictates.

[Delnorin]

We can't allow that to happen. We're all entitled to our opinion. Already, there is the basic division between those who say they will vote against Obama no matter what, and those who've had enough and will not vote for an unacceptable conservative nominee.

This is where I was in the last election for Prez.
This time though I think if we can just get RID of OBummer and then pack another 50+ tea party congressmen and senators into their respective places.. then no matter how much of a Douche the GOP candidate is... he'll be forced to follow the lead of the citizens selected representatives.  Or.. toss him out on his ear at the end of four years and replace him/her... and again pack even more tea party congressmen and senators.

If we can make the presidency the only progressive of the branches of government.. then we can railroad him into doing what we want as a country.

Imagine having a 2/3'rds majority in the House and in the Senate... imagine a President thumbing his nose at that?  Can you say Impeachment?

Bring the power back to the people where it belongs!

[BMG]

Thought some of you might be interested in this if you haven't seen it yet.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/13/paul-ryan-loves-herman-cains-9-9-9-tax-plan/

[IronDioPriest]

Thought some of you might be interested in this if you haven't seen it yet.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/13/paul-ryan-loves-herman-cains-9-9-9-tax-plan/

Yup. Getting the Art Laffer and the Paul Ryan endorsement in the same news cycle is noteworthy. Let's see how Cain is able to capitalize on it.

[charlesoakwood]

Thought some of you might be interested in this if you haven't seen it yet.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/13/paul-ryan-loves-herman-cains-9-9-9-tax-plan/

Yup. Getting the Art Laffer and the Paul Ryan endorsement in the same news cycle is noteworthy. Let's see how Cain is able to capitalize on it.

We can hope.
Cain needed something to set himself apart from the group, and he did it.
And he did it in his area of expertise.  Boortz has probably told Cain, you owe me.

[Predator Don]

We can't allow that to happen. We're all entitled to our opinion. Already, there is the basic division between those who say they will vote against Obama no matter what, and those who've had enough and will not vote for an unacceptable conservative nominee.

This is where I was in the last election for Prez.
This time though I think if we can just get RID of OBummer and then pack another 50+ tea party congressmen and senators into their respective places.. then no matter how much of a Douche the GOP candidate is... he'll be forced to follow the lead of the citizens selected representatives.  Or.. toss him out on his ear at the end of four years and replace him/her... and again pack even more tea party congressmen and senators.

If we can make the presidency the only progressive of the branches of government.. then we can railroad him into doing what we want as a country.

Imagine having a 2/3'rds majority in the House and in the Senate... imagine a President thumbing his nose at that?  Can you say Impeachment?

Bring the power back to the people where it belongs!

I believe obummer needs to go. This is not like clinton, who sent bloated budgets, rejected upon arrival. We can live thru a rino if we pack the house and senate. obama? This guy is dangerous for the country. I'd vote romney, but I'll hate doing it. With Cain, we may not have to settle for the rino, at least not as much as others, so I'll give him a little more slack, although I too want all my questions answered.

 Cain has instituted a blueprint for success, a script he is following which is effective. It's why I believe we will get our questions answered...on his timeline. He has shown more resiliant than Bachmann and Perry, imo because they have political hacks running thier campaigns and Cain does not...he has business savvy professionals. We may not appreciate our questions not answered on our timeline, but no one should doubt the handling of his campaign, keeping him outfront and not burning brightly, only to flame out.

[Janny]

Thought some of you might be interested in this if you haven't seen it yet.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/13/paul-ryan-loves-herman-cains-9-9-9-tax-plan/

Yup. Getting the Art Laffer and the Paul Ryan endorsement in the same news cycle is noteworthy. Let's see how Cain is able to capitalize on it.

Paul Ryan likes 2/3 of the plan, and he emphasized that it's a "good starting point." I don't exactly call that an endorsement.