Topic: Herman Cain's 999 Plan

[Pandora]

So,, having bored most of you to tears (I'm quite certain!), the reason I'm supporting Cain is not because of the FAIR Tax or the 9-9-9 plan per-say. I'm supporting him because he is the MOST CONSERVATIVE in the race. Of all the other candidates, Herman Cain is the only one I can vote for and actually feel like I've voted for the right person for the job rather than the lesser of two evils (as I've been forced to do now for the last several election cycles). That's it in a nutshell for me. Romneycare, Mr. Isolationist and 'heartless-if-you-don't-like-illegal-aliens' just don't get it - they're not conservatives.

Not bored by any stretch BMG (and welcome to the fray!)

Ditto.

As I commented upstream, I want to vet the crap out of all this because I want to understand. In my opinion (and my opinion only) "Empowerment Zones" are a no-starter. The very notion makes me bristle. I'm not sure that anyone can convince me of their value - and I know that no one can compel me to submit.

Just as romney broke an irretrievable trust with romneycare, and perry created a fissure that might still be a show-stopper, this twist takes Cain's 999 plan and turns it into "Plan 9 from Outer Space".

Oops - spoke too soon. There is one way that Cain can redeem himself - define "Empowerment Zones" as any of the 50 (or 57 if you are Øbozo) states.

Then we'll talk.

I'm curious why Cain believes these Zones should be cities, what with the crumbling infrastructure in almost every one.

If he's leaning toward helping the poor downtrodden Black population, still/yet/again/more, coupled with the idea that if government just butt the hell out, the whole country would be an Empowerment Zone, I'm less than interested.

[IronDioPriest]

Ya know what an "Empowerment Zone" is? It's Compassionate Conservatism.

[Pandora]

It's Compassionate Conservatism.

Interestingly, Photobucket deleted several of my pics, including the guy holding his head, captioned, "Not this sht again".

[Delnorin]

I'm curious why Cain believes these Zones should be cities, what with the crumbling infrastructure in almost every one.

If he's leaning toward helping the poor downtrodden Black population, still/yet/again/more, coupled with the idea that if government just butt the hell out, the whole country would be an Empowerment Zone, I'm less than interested.

I think it's his attempt to take votes away from Obama from the Black-vote.  If he can give them some glimmer of hope that if they voted for Cain that he could keep giving them freebies... he might manage to pull a few away from OBummer.

[Pandora]

I'm curious why Cain believes these Zones should be cities, what with the crumbling infrastructure in almost every one.

If he's leaning toward helping the poor downtrodden Black population, still/yet/again/more, coupled with the idea that if government just butt the hell out, the whole country would be an Empowerment Zone, I'm less than interested.

I think it's his attempt to take votes away from Obama from the Black-vote.  If he can give them some glimmer of hope that if they voted for Cain that he could keep giving them freebies... he might manage to pull a few away from OBummer.

Well, if so, then that's sort of running under false pretenses, wouldn't you say?  Unless I'm the dupe because he does intend to continue the freebies.

[Predator Don]

As we get farther into the candidates, Cain appears to be the conservative in the room. I like the 999 plan. I need a definition of empowermant zone, but I'm not going to throw out his entire premise because of one bulletpoint, because changing our tax structure will create a booming economy......



*Features a platform to launch properly structured Empowerment Zones to revitalize our inner cities


"Empowerment zone" could carry many implications. Communities all across America give tax breaks to bring in jobs. I see this as no different. I bet we all have areas in our cities that used to be run down, but have been re vilalized...I know Nashville does and the downtown business has thrived and btw, pushed the "empowermant zones" into a very small area. The issue with some of the re vilalization is it was done with taxes....I don't believe this is how Cain operates. Maybe an "empowermant zone" will be based on private business, not gov't contracts. Heck, maybe it means an electric fence. The key is "properly structured"... I take this to equate to taking areas where private business, with proper incentive, are willing to take risk for profit. Understanding Cain, I do not take it as gov't program giveaways , free housing, etc. Remember, he is a businessman and he thinks like one.

I don't want to be too quick to dismiss. Maybe Mr Cain can re define "compassionate conservative" by creating opportunity and not token giveaways.

[Delnorin]

Well, if so, then that's sort of running under false pretenses, wouldn't you say?  Unless I'm the dupe because he does intend to continue the freebies.

My thinking was just a guess.  I'm trying to find a *reason* for his plan that makes sense to me.  He might be coming at it from a different angle and thought process.. but I can't see how purposefully keeping people in 'benefited free zones' does anything but continue class warfare and the system that we have going on already.

I am just tossing out my thoughts... I'm not saying "This is the way it is and I know what's going on here"... I'm just muddling through trying to discover the truth.

[Pandora]

How's the infrastructure these days in Nashville, Don -- water, sewer, roads, etc.?

[IronDioPriest]

As we get farther into the candidates, Cain appears to be the conservative in the room. I like the 999 plan. I need a definition of empowermant zone, but I'm not going to throw out his entire premise because of one bulletpoint, because changing our tax structure will create a booming economy......



*Features a platform to launch properly structured Empowerment Zones to revitalize our inner cities


"Empowerment zone" could carry many implications. Communities all across America give tax breaks to bring in jobs. I see this as no different. I bet we all have areas in our cities that used to be run down, but have been re vilalized...I know Nashville does and the downtown business has thrived and btw, pushed the "empowermant zones" into a very small area. The issue with some of the re vilalization is it was done with taxes....I don't believe this is how Cain operates. Maybe an "empowermant zone" will be based on private business, not gov't contracts. Heck, maybe it means an electric fence. The key is "properly structured"... I take this to equate to taking areas where private business, with proper incentive, are willing to take risk for profit. Understanding Cain, I do not take it as gov't program giveaways , free housing, etc. Remember, he is a businessman and he thinks like one.

I don't want to be too quick to dismiss. Maybe Mr Cain can re define "compassionate conservative" by creating opportunity and not token giveaways.

That's probably the correct perspective at this point. And you're right - there's a LOT for a conservative to LOVE with the 999 plan. Even if an "Empowerment Zone" is a tax-free ring around every ghetto with free ponies and fried chicken  for all "Urban" folks, the nation would be light-years better off from an economic growth standpoint than it is under the current burdensome tax regime.

My reaction is more, as I said initially, "Ugh". The terminology and the implication causes a gut reaction of disappointment.

[Delnorin]

That's probably the correct perspective at this point. And you're right - there's a LOT for a conservative to LOVE with the 999 plan. Even if an "Empowerment Zone" is a tax-free ring around every ghetto with free ponies and fried chicken  for all "Urban" folks, the nation would be light-years better off from an economic growth standpoint than it is under the current burdensome tax regime.

My reaction is more, as I said initially, "Ugh". The terminology and the implication causes a gut reaction of disappointment.

I agree IronDioPriest... a good perspective and a careful reaction is best.
A very wise friend of mine has sat me down on another issue and spoke to me about the importance of incremental changes.  Yes, I would like to abolish the IRS, cut 50% out of the military budget, completely remove the Social Security System and move to a private system, remove medicade and medicare, make every $ donated to a church/charity a 1:1 tax CREDIT, and remove about 300 other government programs completely... but that would cause riots in the street and then a police state just to keep people alive.
Perhaps this Empowerment Zone is completely legit, perhaps it is a half-measure to keep the cities from Jones-ing about their programs being cut and having to go actually get a job, perhaps.. perhaps...

But I remind myself about the lesson my friend taught me and how I/We can't jump in and get 100% of what we want.  People have been poisoned for so long that pulling that poison away too fast would kill them.

The progressives have gotten their way by slow and incremental removal of our freedoms... the only way to get it back might be the same technique.. slowly give people back their freedoms and hope they grow a spine and become involved in regaining the rest of their freedoms.

[Predator Don]

Pretty good. Our downtown is much different than 10-20 years ago. Nashville is heavily influences by the surrounding conservative areas. Our downtown has been a business/ gov't cooperation, of sorts. Now, we still have areas where tax dollars build free homes, free this, free that..... But thinking as a businessman, as I believe Cain does, I do not believe "empowerment zone" equates to free stuff. Empowerment = Opportunity = Self reliance = a little pride.

I think of it this way. Cain, a pizza guy, businessman. There is a market (opportunity) in places where business and jobs have no roots, mainly because things were given to them, so there is no pride in ownership or respect. So, to change the culture, what do you do? You create an enviroment in these areas which will attract private investment. Both jobs and business. I would be shocked if his properly constructed empowermwnt zones equates to more free stuff.

Its got to be risk/reward.

[IronDioPriest]

...The progressives have gotten their way by slow and incremental removal of our freedoms... the only way to get it back might be the same technique.. slowly give people back their freedoms and hope they grow a spine and become involved in regaining the rest of their freedoms.

I pray that the good Lord allows us the time. I don't know that there's time for incrementalism.

[IronDioPriest]

... I would be shocked if his properly constructed empowermwnt zones equates to more free stuff.

You sure would think so, given everything this guy seems to be all about. Entitlement zone according to demographic seems completely out of character. So out of character, that I would say that if these zones are indeed simple tax-free handout zones to Blacks, that would make him a hypocrite. He doesn't seem like a hypocrite to me.

[Predator Don]

... I would be shocked if his properly constructed empowermwnt zones equates to more free stuff.

You sure would think so, given everything this guy seems to be all about. Entitlement zone according to demographic seems completely out of character. So out of character, that I would say that if these zones are indeed simple tax-free handout zones to Blacks, that would make him a hypocrite. He doesn't seem like a hypocrite to me.

Will be interesting in the coming weeks to receive more information and explanation. A better term, I believe, would be opportunity zone.....But to me, empowerment and opportunity carry similiar meaning.....But I'm a middle class white boy, empowerment may be a better urban term.

[BMG]

When I got a chance to get back online and do some more digging I found a couple articles that may be of some help to the original post at this thread.

Excerpts taken from The Christian Science Monitor, 'Herman Cain's '999 plan': long overdue tax reform or job killer?' Sept 30, 2011 (I cut & pasted snippets from the article so if you wish to read the entire thing [it provides points of views of both conservatives and liberals in the analysis] I have provided the information which should allow you to find and read the whole piece):

"This taxes everything once but nothing twice.

A high income earner who makes $300,000 per year would pay $49,113 in taxes, which would amount to 16.3 percent of their income. But, today, that individual would pay $83,897 or 27.97 percent of their income in taxes.

A middle income taxpayer that makes $55,000 per year would pay $9,319 in combined taxes, coming to 16.9 percent of their income. Today, that individual would pay $9,875 and would pay 17.95 percent of their income in taxes.

In the near future, Lowrie says Cain will release his plan for low income areas which he terms “empowerment zones.” People living, working, and employing people in those areas would receive tax deductions.

In addition, Cain would eliminate Payroll taxes, which now go to fund Social Security and Medicare. That would mean both entitlement programs would be funded out of general revenue."

So this defines what is meant by 'empowerment zones' and gives some better details about the overall 9-9-9 plan.

Now for a more in-depth analysis I went to Free Republic's thread where they were picking apart the 9-9-9 Plan at this link: ( http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2790605/posts ) which proved very educational and only served to reinforce my opinion that this plan is a good half-step to the FAIR Tax and that Herman Cain IS the man to back.

I also found this snippet in the discussion concerning the 'empowerment zones' that I thought I would share:

"It’s an effort to get businesses to get into the inner city and get people off of WELFARE. I can buy into this plan because I want to see welfare go the way of the steam engine. For everyone."

[Predator Don]

When I got a chance to get back online and do some more digging I found a couple articles that may be of some help to the original post at this thread.

Excerpts taken from The Christian Science Monitor, 'Herman Cain's '999 plan': long overdue tax reform or job killer?' Sept 30, 2011 (I cut & pasted snippets from the article so if you wish to read the entire thing [it provides points of views of both conservatives and liberals in the analysis] I have provided the information which should allow you to find and read the whole piece):

"This taxes everything once but nothing twice.

A high income earner who makes $300,000 per year would pay $49,113 in taxes, which would amount to 16.3 percent of their income. But, today, that individual would pay $83,897 or 27.97 percent of their income in taxes.

A middle income taxpayer that makes $55,000 per year would pay $9,319 in combined taxes, coming to 16.9 percent of their income. Today, that individual would pay $9,875 and would pay 17.95 percent of their income in taxes.

In the near future, Lowrie says Cain will release his plan for low income areas which he terms “empowerment zones.” People living, working, and employing people in those areas would receive tax deductions.

In addition, Cain would eliminate Payroll taxes, which now go to fund Social Security and Medicare. That would mean both entitlement programs would be funded out of general revenue."

So this defines what is meant by 'empowerment zones' and gives some better details about the overall 9-9-9 plan.

Now for a more in-depth analysis I went to Free Republic's thread where they were picking apart the 9-9-9 Plan at this link: ( http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2790605/posts ) which proved very educational and only served to reinforce my opinion that this plan is a good half-step to the FAIR Tax and that Herman Cain IS the man to back.

I also found this snippet in the discussion concerning the 'empowerment zones' that I thought I would share:

"It’s an effort to get businesses to get into the inner city and get people off of WELFARE. I can buy into this plan because I want to see welfare go the way of the steam engine. For everyone."

BMG,

Thanks for the update. Kinda thought it would be something like this.

[IronDioPriest]

BTW, welcome to the forum BMG. Always glad to add another substantive voice.

 

[BMG]

et al., btw - thanx for the 'welcomes'! Delnorin invited me over to chat about the topic so here I am. Normally I'm more a lurker - hanging out and reading and rarely posting stuff - unless something particularly egregious is posted. Haven't been around this blog before until today - not to disparage this blog or anything, just didn't really know about it is all. 

[Delnorin]

I pray that the good Lord allows us the time. I don't know that there's time for incrementalism.

The discussion with my friend dove-tailed right into this comment as well.  Our discussion was about getting behind a GOP cannidate even though we're not all that thrilled about this one or that.

What *is* known.. that if we don't get rid of Obummer, then it's absolutely 100% certainty that our country is finished.

If we can replace Obummer.. then maybe.. just maybe we can keep it alive on life-support long enough to come up with a way to replace the vital organs and save its life.

I was completely in the camp of flushing the toilet and get rid of them all... but then realized that all that would do would be to give Obummer another 4 years.

[Delnorin]

And he's required to sire multiple children

Couple weeks ago, I read about an obit or arrest warrant for an "entrepreneur" who had about 125 children
I'll see if I can find it

I found that article you are talking about:  http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,3304.0.html