Topic: Your Hill To Die On?

[Delnorin]

The phrase "A Hill to Die On..." was mentioned in a post I read hear earlier and I couldn't agree more.  The post made the point that the GOP has been telling the voters for years that "this or that" hill isn't the hill to die on.

Translation:  We want you to think some day we will actually do what you sent us to D.C. to do.. but until then.. please be quiet and let us run your lives.

Now I got to thinking (warning.. I do a lot of that without it always being substantial.. so if you just shrug off my comment/idea.. it's not a big deal.. sooner or later I land a great concept). 

Topic:  What do you do when someone brings up a topic you think is destructive (or at least not helpful to the overall cause)... but that you personally agree with?  Do you just be quiet and keep your opinions to yourself?  Or; after some time of everyone piling on the person that breached the subject is slandered enough.. do you finally come out and say... ENOUGH.. I agree with the guy.  Yes, he shouldn't have said anything because now everyone is making a stink about it and is distracted from the bigger picture.  Or.. do you just keep quiet?

Not to start a thread within a thread.. but as an example... (please note, the purpose of the thread is to seek advice and learn about when to speak up and when not to and how it might effect the larger goals as a whole.. not this specific topic).....

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/romney-calls-on-perry-to-%e2%80%98repudiate%e2%80%99-anti-mormon-pastor/

Some pastor calls out Mormonism as a cult.  I nod but am silent because I 100% believe that it is.. but that's between them and God and none of my business.... but then everyone starts veering off and getting distracted.

I imagine the mainstream media is salivating at the low-hanging fruit now and OBummer is laughing all the way to the election polls.

How do you determine if the Hill is your hill or not?  I've got so many hills I'm willing to die on.. but on the other hand.. I can only die on one.  If I discredit my cause straight out of the gate (whether I am justified in my opinion or not).. then I sort of become useless to the cause after that.. then what good am I to help?

[rickl]

I saw a good comment the other day:  "There are at least 37 different reasons to oppose Romney, but Mormonism isn't one of them."

[AmericanPatriot]

I'm starting to think we can't give up any more hills

[Delnorin]

I'm starting to think we can't give up any more hills

Are there any hills even left anymore?

[IronDioPriest]

...What do you do when someone brings up a topic you think is destructive (or at least not helpful to the overall cause)... but that you personally agree with?  Do you just be quiet and keep your opinions to yourself?  Or; after some time of everyone piling on the person that breached the subject is slandered enough.. do you finally come out and say... ENOUGH.. I agree with the guy.  Yes, he shouldn't have said anything because now everyone is making a stink about it and is distracted from the bigger picture.  Or.. do you just keep quiet?...

I think what you're describing here is competing interests. On the one hand you have your personal convictions about faith. On the other hand you have your personal convictions about politics. If you're like me, your faith informs your politics.

Does your faith inform your politics beyond policy to the point where you cannot support a politician who does not share your faith? You seem to indicate that the answer is no, which means your faith informs your politics in the area of policy, but not necessarily politicians.

I believe Justice John Jay had it right when he said we should prefer Christians as our leaders. Preference, for me, is not an absolute - it is a preference. Still, the further a politician strays from Christianity, the more likely I am to eye their politics for positions that I cannot support.

All that said, I think in the instance you cite, Jeffress was way out of line, and even though you agree with what he said, I don't think you have any moral or religious duty to openly support his statement.

A person's faith is between him and God. Romney thinks he's a Christian. What I think doesn't really matter to him or God, does it? John 3:16 just says that the only requirement for everlasting life is to believe in Christ. Who am I to judge if Romney fulfills that in God's eyes?

Instead, I look at policies, and find them wanting.

So I wouldn't die on that hill.

[Delnorin]

...What do you do when someone brings up a topic you think is destructive (or at least not helpful to the overall cause)... but that you personally agree with?  Do you just be quiet and keep your opinions to yourself?  Or; after some time of everyone piling on the person that breached the subject is slandered enough.. do you finally come out and say... ENOUGH.. I agree with the guy.  Yes, he shouldn't have said anything because now everyone is making a stink about it and is distracted from the bigger picture.  Or.. do you just keep quiet?...

I think what you're describing here is competing interests. On the one hand you have your personal convictions about faith. On the other hand you have your personal convictions about politics. If you're like me, your faith informs your politics.

Does your faith inform your politics beyond policy to the point where you cannot support a politician who does not share your faith? You seem to indicate that the answer is no, which means your faith informs your politics in the area of policy, but not necessarily politicians.

I believe Justice John Jay had it right when he said we should prefer Christians as our leaders. Preference, for me, is not an absolute - it is a preference. Still, the further a politician strays from Christianity, the more likely I am to eye their politics for positions that I cannot support.

All that said, I think in the instance you cite, Jeffress was way out of line, and even though you agree with what he said, I don't think you have any moral or religious duty to openly support his statement.

A person's faith is between him and God. Romney thinks he's a Christian. What I think doesn't really matter to him or God, does it? John 3:16 just says that the only requirement for everlasting life is to believe in Christ. Who am I to judge if Romney fulfills that in God's eyes?

Instead, I look at policies, and find them wanting.

So I wouldn't die on that hill.

Thank you and I appreciate the time you took to help me figure this out.  We're in agreement a great deal on this.

I won't stray too far I hope in saying that a Mormon's "Jesus" isn't the same as mine.  I believe in the Trinity.. not that everyone can become a god of their own world.  Also their teaching that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers.. they've removed Jesus from an equal standing of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit...  Just pointing out that their Jesus.. is not the Jesus I am following.  Using the same name.. but progressed God to a common man isn't working for me.

But I agree.... what he believes isn't a killer on if I'm going to support him or not.  I'm looking for someone to represent me in D.C. in the executive branch.  I'm not having him teach at my church in Sunday School.  His decisions about his relationship with God at this point doesn't effect me supporting him at all.

[charlesoakwood]

I still think it was a set up.  They knew if asked he would answer honestly and they knew what the answer was.
They fail to quote or show the complete interview in which he states he thinks Romney is a good and moral man
and that he would vote for him.

The Southern Baptist Convention states that Mormonism is a cult, Jeffress is a Southern Baptist.

ETA  He has said he would vote for Romney over Obama.

[Delnorin]

I still think it was a set up.  They knew if asked he would answer honestly and they knew what the answer was.
They fail to quote or show the complete interview in which he states he thinks Romney is a good and moral man
and that he would vote for him.

The Southern Baptist Convention states that Mormonism is a cult, Jeffress is a Southern Baptist.

I have the same illness as well.  If someone asks me something straight up.. I give them a straight up answer.
I wish I could just say, "I'd rather not answer that".. but then you get speculation and people saying things worse than if you'd have just answered right away.

[IronDioPriest]

...I won't stray too far I hope in saying that a Mormon's "Jesus" isn't the same as mine.  I believe in the Trinity.. not that everyone can become a god of their own world.  Also their teaching that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers.. they've removed Jesus from an equal standing of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit...  Just pointing out that their Jesus.. is not the Jesus I am following.  Using the same name.. but progressed God to a common man isn't working for me.

But I agree.... what he believes isn't a killer on if I'm going to support him or not.  I'm looking for someone to represent me in D.C. in the executive branch.  I'm not having him teach at my church in Sunday School.  His decisions about his relationship with God at this point doesn't effect me supporting him at all.

I agree that from my perspective, Mormon's do not worship who I know as Christ. But I think I differ just a degree or two in that I kind of put some distance between my beliefs and God's relationship with other people. I'm not prepared to speak for God and say that the Mormon is condemned because of their bizarre definition of Jesus. Don't get me wrong, I think it is so. I'm just not prepared to judge it so on behalf of God.

[Delnorin]

I agree that from my perspective, Mormon's do not worship who I know as Christ. But I think I differ just a degree or two in that I kind of put some distance between my beliefs and God's relationship with other people. I'm not prepared to speak for God and say that the Mormon is condemned because of their bizarre definition of Jesus. Don't get me wrong, I think it is so. I'm just not prepared to judge it so on behalf of God.

Oh yeah.. I'm not going to flail them or mock them and such.  That's God's deal, not mine.
I'm a mess-up and have a hard enough dealing with my own life and my own weaknesses and troubles.

But when it comes to plain and open scripture with no confusion but just plain simple facts... I stand up and just point to the scripture and then leave it between them and God.  It's their deal with God then.. and I walk away.  Not my position to do anything different.

[rickl]

Here's an unsolicited outsider's perspective.  I'm not religious and I'm certainly not a Mormon.

It does sound like a cult to me.  The origins of Mormonism seem eerily similar to the origins of Islam; a charismatic individual inventing a religion out of whole cloth.  Yet the Mormons that I'm aware of seem to be basically decent people.  By and large, they're probably a net plus for American society.

There was a great South Park episode a few years ago.  It ruthlessly mocked Mormon theology, yet the Mormon family depicted in the show was happy, well-adjusted, close-knit, and loving.

[Delnorin]

Here's an unsolicited outsider's perspective.  I'm not religious and I'm certainly not a Mormon.

It does sound like a cult to me.  The origins of Mormonism seem eerily similar to the origins of Islam; a charismatic individual inventing a religion out of whole cloth.  Yet the Mormons that I'm aware of seem to be basically decent people.  By and large, they're probably a net plus for American society.

There was a great South Park episode a few years ago.  It ruthlessly mocked Mormon theology, yet the Mormon family depicted in the show was happy, well-adjusted, close-knit, and loving.

I agree!  Amazing compassionate people.  Very much they improve society.  Fantastic people.

[Pandora]

Here's an unsolicited outsider's perspective.  I'm not religious and I'm certainly not a Mormon.

It does sound like a cult to me.  The origins of Mormonism seem eerily similar to the origins of Islam; a charismatic individual inventing a religion out of whole cloth.  Yet the Mormons that I'm aware of seem to be basically decent people.  By and large, they're probably a net plus for American society.

There was a great South Park episode a few years ago.  It ruthlessly mocked Mormon theology, yet the Mormon family depicted in the show was happy, well-adjusted, close-knit, and loving.

I agree!  Amazing compassionate people.  Very much they improve society.  Fantastic people.

And, unlike islam, are not looking to impose their beliefs on anyone as far as I know.

Supporting, or not, a 'slim IS the hill I would die on -- one of them.

[Delnorin]

Supporting, or not, a 'slim IS the hill I would die on -- one of them.

I'm with you on this one Pandora.  Either way we -will- die on this hill.  Either by being passive and letting them kill us, or by standing up to protect ourselves and our children.

[rickl]

Found it!

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e12-all-about-mormons

[AlanS]

I saw a good comment the other day:  "There are at least 37 different reasons to oppose Romney, but Mormonism isn't one of them."

Exactly. He so far to the left, Mormanism is the least of our worries.