Author Topic: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?  (Read 9494 times)

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Offline BMG

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Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« on: October 14, 2011, 02:53:18 PM »
Okay so I'm going to put it out there and I'm certain I'll get laughed at for my choice, but hear me out and you might decide that I'm not as nuts as my choice for a 'go to' firearm just in case civilization collapses.

Ruger 10/22. Yup...go ahead and laugh, I'll wait...

 ::hysterical::

Alright, now I'll explain myself. :P

1) Light weight. The carbine version weighs in at a whopping 5lbs.

2) Accurate enough to hit a grapefruit at 100 yards OFF THE SHELF (the round retains a flat trajectory out to 125 yards). Yeah, you read that right - it's a semi-auto .22 that is accurate to 100 yards off the shelf provided your shooting skills are adequate of course. When I was growing up I used to hunt small game with my Ruger 10/22 carbine. Rabbits, grouse and squirrel. I was easily able to get any of those critters within 50 yards with a head shot from my .22 with hardly ever missing. If you're not already aware, a squirrel's head is a bit larger than a $0.50 cent piece and I was easily capable of hitting a target that size every time at 50 yards.

3) Ammo is EASY to find and CHEAP. You can buy a box of 550 rounds (Remington even!) at Walmart for under $25.00. As everyone knows, your firearm becomes a glorified club once you run out of ammo. An AR-15 (.223) is sweet and all but when 500 rounds run about $250.00 for the really crappy dirty-firing-bottom-of-the-barrel stuff, well...you run out of ammo and you're left with a club.

4) Most survivalists I've read say that for such a scenario you want to have about 10,000 rounds of ammo on hand. Refer back to point #3.

5) Again, an AR-15 is a sweet rig right? You bet! But when you're faced with a total collapse of civilization and you're looking for dinner...what are you going to do with that fancy .223 when dinner is sitting next to the road in the form of a rabbit - or turkey - or some other small critter? You blast it with that AR-15 and your dinner just turned into a bloody lump of exploded flesh and bone (unless you're able to just hit the head)...in other words, whatever you're able to salvage equals a minor snack. That doesn't happen with a .22.

6) Quiet. Well, in relation to other firearms like, that aforementioned AR-15 for example. Look, civilization has collapsed right? How much attention do you want to bring to yourself while you're out hunting for dinner? Your chances of being heard while shooting your .22 are a lot less than if shooting your .223.

7) Aside from being cheap, the .22 ammo is also exceptionally light. 500 rnds weighs about 3 lbs. Whereas, 500 rnds of .223 ammo weighs about 15 lbs.

8) Contrary to popular belief, a .22 round can indeed easily kill a person (I'll use a 'person' for the metric for the purpose of illustrating this point and because it's a statistic I know). If you line three people up front to back, the .22 bullet will pass through the first 2 and lodge in the last one - potentially killing all three. As a 17 year-old growing up in Michigan, my Father used to hunt deer with a bolt action .22. He would make head shots at about 50 yards and he'd get his deer - one shot in the head every time.

Not that I advocate this in the least (because the guy doing this is extremely hard core and essentially, one in a million!), but: I've even read a story from the book, 'Bear Tales for the ages' by Larry Kaniut about an Eskimo hunter in Alaska that used to hunt polar bears with a .22. The native in question (can't remember his name now and if I recall correctly the guy was doing his hunting in the 40's) was talking about putting out a seal carcass on the ice and then hiding nearby. When the bear would come in to eat the carcass he'd take aim and shoot the bear in a specific place in the head where the skull is thinnest. He'd killed numerous bears in this manner - one shot to the head with his trusty bolt action .22.

I have pause when considering the use of a .22 against targets wearing body armor as the body armor would stop the bullet completely and the target likely wouldn't even know they'd been shot. But the inherent accuracy of the round is such that you could simply target a non-armored area. Go for the arteries in the legs or for the face, or the armpits, etc. Yeah I know - easy to say when you aren't getting shot at. But the fact of the matter is that the body armor available today is going to stop even that .223 so I don't much see the argument unless you're talking about using a .30/06 or better.

9) Inexpensive. The carbine version goes for about $200.00.

10) If you want to get better accuracy you can zero this thing in enough with after market parts to hit a quarter at 125 yards, every time (assuming you're a good shot mind you!). Don't believe that? Here's a fun link to check out:

http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm

I doubt they'd be used as sniper rifles by the Israeli army if they weren't capable as I've just described.

As for my 10/22 I've tricked it out a bit. I've got a really nice bullpup stock on it. Not that muzzelite thing some of you might be thinking about mind you! That thing's junk! No, I'm talking about this stock here: ( http://www.wix.com/jbunting/bullpup-stock#! ). I've also put a bull barrel on it and a few other accessories. The nice thing about this rifle is that there are a lot of after market accessories you can get and everything is relatively cheap if you compare the upgrades to similar upgrades for higher power firearms. When all was said and done I put about $900.00 (which includes a large stockpile of ammo) into my 10/22. If I'd have done the same amount of upgrading to an AR-15, I'd have spent something more like $2500.00 (without having purchased any ammo yet!).

Now just because I like the Ruger 10/22 as a good all around survival, self defense weapon doesn't mean that I don't see any downside to the choice. Sure, if you are shooting through brush at your target the bullet is so light that it could get deflected by the branches and cause you to miss your target. Sure, you're not going to be shooting through walls and still taking out the enemy. Sure, it doesn't have the raw knock-down power of any of the larger calibers. Sure, you're not going to be taking down wild boar at 600 yards with this firearm. If you go with this option you'd need to be 100% able to use the weapon to it's fullest potential. That means you have to rely upon it's accuracy more than the raw power of the firearm. So you have to be a capable shooter and you have to know where you need to shoot a target in order to win the fight. You need to practice so that you can hit that quarter at 100 yards. Not like using a .223 where the bullet is capable of killing a target with one shot to the center mass. You may need to target the head instead. But one shot from a .22 to the head is going to make that target just as dead as one shot to the head from any other firearm.

Now don't get me wrong, though I'd be the wacko running around with my .22, I do still have other firearms for various reasons. The thing is, the .22 is a perfectly fine weapon in a survivalist situation (after all we aren't talking about needing a combat or battle rifle here for fighting a long term firefight with sustained 1k ammo expenditures in that one engagement or anything). You just need to be aware of its limitations, plan your tactics accordingly and try not to make it perform past its capabilities.

http://www.ruger.com/products/1022Carbine/models.html
http://www.ruger.com/products/1022Target/index.html
http://www.ruger.com/products/1022Compact/models.html
http://www.ruger.com/products/1022Tactical/models.html
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 03:30:43 PM by BMG »
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
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Online Pandora

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crmbles?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2011, 03:19:27 PM »
I'm not laughing and I don't suspect you're nuts.  The best firearm for any individual is the one he likes and is comfortable and accurate with.

I haven't had much experience with a .22; for my size and weight, it'd probably do well if eyesight wasn't an issue at this stage of the game, so what is good, comfortable and accurate for me is my M1 Carbine.  Not going to be useful for squirrel-hunting in any aspect, though.  Seeing how you are correct about that, some practice, compensating for eyes, with the .22 may be order.
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Offline BMG

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crmbles?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2011, 03:28:58 PM »
Well, considering the cost of .22 caliber ammo, you can go out and shoot a couple times a week to hone your skills and spend somewhere around $15 a month. Compare that with shooting any other firearm and if nothing else, you'll get in good practice at a very affordable price. About the only thing I can think of that would be cheaper would be an air rifle.  ;D
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crmbles?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2011, 03:30:26 PM »
Well, considering the cost of .22 caliber ammo, you can go out and shoot a couple times a week to hone your skills and spend somewhere around $15 a month. Compare that with shooting any other firearm and if nothing else, you'll get in good practice at a very affordable price. About the only thing I can think of that would be cheaper would be an air rifle.  ;D

Or a slingshot.  ;D
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline BMG

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2011, 03:40:00 PM »
Something else to consider when choosing a firearm as your 'go to' firearm for the zombie apocalypse (or whatever the kids are calling it these days :) )...

...ammo.

Law enforcement and the Military currently (and predominantly) use 12 ga (shotgun), .223, 308, 9mm, 45 ACP and  40 S&W. For that reason, those rounds are also very popular among the citizenry of the US. Above I mentioned that I like the .22 and one of the reasons was because it is cheap to buy in quantity. Well, these other rounds would be easier to find after civilization crumbles simply because they are extremely popular and have been for a very long time. There is a huge amount of this ammo type in circulation around the country. This means that scavenging or trading for these ammo types is much more feasible than other ammo types like 375 H&H Mag or 44 Mag or something.

Again, if you run out of ammo what you have in your hands is nothing more than an expensive club.

So if you haven't settled on a firearm yet and are considering it, it may be a good idea to consider the availability of ammunition 'after the fall' especially if you aren't financially able to amass ammo now and plan to supplement your ammo stash 'after the fall' through scavenging or trading.

Just food for thought...
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2011, 04:00:13 PM »
I have many firearms in many calibers, and I am most accurate with my Ruger Mark II .22 target pistol, and my old Remington semi-auto .22 rifle. Came in 2nd place on the range rimfire league year before last - first time ever on a firearm league outside trap shooting. I enjoy the heck out of .22 shooting, and agree completely with your assessment of its capacity for damage when fired accurately.

I'm loathe to choose though. I enjoy all my firearms, and am well-stocked on ammo for all of them. I've looked at it as being versatile, rather than needing to pick one. But I s'pose when TSHTF, it'll matter when I expend one single round of anything. I'd better decide under what circumstances I'm going to consume and preserve rounds of which caliber/gauge.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

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Offline BMG

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 04:13:20 PM »
Oh, not that I'm disparaging any of the other firearm types out there. This post was more for those that didn't already have a collection and a good amount of ammo for their collection or for those that had to choose in a hurry and go. If you have a choice and the rubber is hittin' the road so to speak, grab the biggest 'bang' you got that's appropriate for the situation (meaning, don't try to use a 12 ga shotgun as a sniper rifle they only have an effective range of 70 yards or so!) and don't hold back!

But in the case where you have to flee your house and can only carry so much, well - I'm grabbing the .22 first to be sure. :) Any other weapons I'd grab would depend upon the ammo post above this one - likely my .223 and 9mm because finding ammo later for them would be easier than say, my 10mm or .338.  ;D
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2011, 04:25:09 PM »
We've stocked a lot of .45ACP because we have several 1911s; we both have M1s, so we've stocked accordingly and I'm trying and failing to remember what Gunsmith's FN49 shoots to know if the ammo is interchangeable.

So many guns, so little ability to retain the details.  ::)
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

charlesoakwood

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crmbles?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 04:31:36 PM »
Well, considering the cost of .22 caliber ammo, you can go out and shoot a couple times a week to hone your skills and spend somewhere around $15 a month. Compare that with shooting any other firearm and if nothing else, you'll get in good practice at a very affordable price. About the only thing I can think of that would be cheaper would be an air rifle.  ;D

Or a slingshot.  ;D


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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 04:34:22 PM »
I remember that vid from another thread, Charles.  Thanks!
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2011, 04:35:05 PM »
One of the greatest joys I had with my oldest brother was shooting the sh!t about firearms. I was always hopelessly outmatched about trivia and minutia because he had a brain wired for total recall, but when it got down to subjective stuff - like which one do you like best - I could argue wit the best of them.

My arsenal wasn't much to crow about back in those days - too many other obligations that had designs on my money. But a Ruger 10/22 was among the first-reach favorites (still is). I now have three of them, including one with a heavier match barrel and a stainless one with a folding stock and other goodies.

And I still get every bit as much fun out of shooting those as I do the other calibers.

But I still favor my Remington 870 for "cleaning house"  ;D


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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2011, 04:38:21 PM »
I wanted a pistol-grip shotgun, so Gunsmith obliged me and it beat.the living.daylights. out of my wrist.  Sooooo ....

....... now it has a regular shoulder stock on it.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline BMG

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2011, 05:27:02 PM »
Here's my above-mentioned 10/22. Doesn't even look like a 10/22 anymore I know. :)  But it shoots really well (capable of hitting that quarter at 100 yards) and is 1/2" longer than the minimum allowed by law (that accuracy and the shortness is achieved by the bullpup design), thus making it 26 1/2" overall length with a 16" barrel. This allows it to be brought up on target and maneuvered quickly and easily.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2011, 05:30:24 PM »
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline BMG

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2011, 06:04:27 PM »
LOL! Now that thing has some accessories - I'm not sure I'd even be able to find the trigger! The real question though is: Does it make my butt look fat?  ::mooning::
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Offline AlanS

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2011, 08:55:57 PM »


That thing looks like it belongs on Rodeo Drive. It's over accessorized to me. But then again, I'm a simple man with simple tastes.
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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2011, 09:23:49 PM »
It's damn stupid is what it is.  I was just funnin' with BMG about the few doodads on his rifle is all.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline BMG

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2011, 09:31:36 PM »
Well, in fairness I'm sure that it is just someone goofing because they can - and obviously, more is not better! It is pretty funny though to be sure Pandora.  ;D
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2011, 09:35:49 PM »
Well, in fairness I'm sure that it is just someone goofing because they can - and obviously, more is not better! It is pretty funny though to be sure Pandora.  ;D

I agree.   ;D

Some enthusiastic but ignorant gun nut, too, maybe.

Oh!  And on the FN49, it uses .308, same as the FALN sitting in our gunsafe, otherwise known as "the scary black assault rifle".   :supercool:
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline BMG

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Re: Firearm Of Choice If Society Crumbles?
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2011, 09:53:01 PM »
Well, be sure that you grab the FN49, the FALN and whatever other weapon you have the most ammo for then if nothing else...so you'll have an easier time scavenging ammo latter!  ;D
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus