Author Topic: A Deadly Double Standard  (Read 8413 times)

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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: A Deadly Double Standard
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2011, 01:51:02 PM »
Ask IDP about his father.

Okay!

IDP, what about your father?

If you read from HERE on down, you'll get a rundown. It's relevant to this discussion.

My mother-in-law was a life-long liberal Democrat. Later in life, while she was still working in the teaching profession, in a Chicago suburb, she had a series of experiences that woke her up to reality. One particular one was when she hired a woman as a clerical worker. The woman was a black woman from a nearby community in Chicago. She was well qualified and my m-i-l was delighted to give her the opportunity at a decent paying job. Well, the next day, the woman came back to her and told her that couldn't accept the job, after all, because her family had told her she was being "too white." My mother-in-law was floored. She'd believed for all those years that the black people only wanted opportunities to be treated equally and get ahead. She gradually opened her eyes to the reality of the welfare state, after that.

My mother in law is now retired, at age 76, and watches Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly and listens to Rush.


It can be done!

I agree, it can be done. I've seen it happen. Still, there are an awful lot of people who are just stuck in a pattern. It's hard to change something as fundamental as your political affiliation unless you are confronted with incontrovertible evidence AND compelling motivation.

There are so many people here in Minnesota who are essentially conservative, but could not fathom voting for a Republican. They self identify with Democrats. They might come from union or farm backgrounds, having grown up in families where Republican was a curse word, and where everyone they care about were Democrats.

And yet those same people may be pro-life, in favor of traditional marriage, for lower taxes , for smaller government, for less regulation, for reinforcement of liberty, for firearm rights, etc... There is a cognitive dissonance between who they are - how they live their lives - and who they identify with and vote for.

You literally have to shock people like this out of their patterns, or most of them won't budge. And then there are those - like my father - who shut down, and don't wanna hear it.

"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online Pandora

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Re: A Deadly Double Standard
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2011, 02:13:34 PM »
Quote
And yet those same people may be pro-life, in favor of traditional marriage, for lower taxes , for smaller government, for less regulation, for reinforcement of liberty, for firearm rights, etc... There is a cognitive dissonance between who they are - how they live their lives - and who they identify with and vote for.

You literally have to shock people like this out of their patterns, or most of them won't budge. And then there are those - like my father - who shut down, and don't wanna hear it.

You've described my 50 year-old neighbor almost to a T.  For Janny's benefit, I reiterate my pre-'08 election experience:  we were on the phone, I was running down a list of known troublesome facts about Obama and he interrupted me with, "I'm voting for OBAMA!"  His voice rose on OBAMA!  Additionally, his stepfather and mother are Republicans and he sees them as stingy (never helped any of the kids out upon reaching adulthood), greedy (they make many of their decisions based on the tax consequences) and mean.  This opinion does not seem remotely worth re-examining to him in spite of his close acquaintance with our habits and actions.   ::bashing::
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline Janny

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Re: A Deadly Double Standard
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2011, 03:38:37 PM »
Interesting. Maybe if you keep whittling away at your dad, then gradually you will bring him around. One of the experiences I remember with my m-i-l was when we had both just voted and we were talking about the judges. The judges back in Crook County, Illinois go on the ballot for retention periodically. I don't know that any of them ever get voted out, but I brought this up that I found it hard to find information on whether the judges were qualified. Her response was that she had looked at the ballot and voted to retain all the judges that were women, and to bounce all the men. "Because we need more women judges." I asked her why she would assume the women were qualified, and why she could just reject men whether they were qualified or not, but she had no answer. I gave up on trying to reason with her at that point.  She has come far, but she still has moments like this one.

My nephew is kind of the opposite of your neighbor, Pandora. He is a self-described "moderate" who is really a liberal. We were at a family gathering a while back and Sheriff Joe Arpaio got brought up. My brother simply mentioned Joe's name and my nephew went off on a tirade about how he hates Arpaio. Nobody agreed with him, therefore we are all uninformed.  ::bashing::

This "kid" is almost 40, he has never been married and has no responsibilities except to himself. He is a lot of fun to be around, unless you discuss politics with him. I got into a discussion on Facebook with him once, because he posted some link to some leftwing rag about Rush Limbaugh being a racist, which is a fact, of course. I asked him to explain how he knows Rush's heart, yet he gives Obama a pass for attending that racist church in Chicago for all those years. His response? "There would be no way to know if Obama agreed with any of that racist stuff unless you were sitting next to him in the pew to see how he reacted to it." Uh huh.... ::popcorn::

...but ten second sound bites of Rush Limbaugh, taken out of context by far left-wing websites is proof that Rush Limbaugh is a racist?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 03:59:21 PM by Janny »

Online IronDioPriest

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Re: A Deadly Double Standard
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2011, 04:46:17 PM »
Yip. Some people are just lost. Still fun to tweak 'em with truth now and then though. I have a homosexual cousin (who looks like Rachel Maddow) and he's a flamer. He likes to good-naturedly push my buttons by speaking frankly about being gay, cuz he knows how I am, but I never take the bait. I always assent to a libertarian tolerance position with him, and lucky for our conversations, he cannot relate to homosexuals who wish to marry, and he doesn't give a sh*t about that issue.

But I also use these conversations as an opportunity to talk to him about fiscal policy. Last time I saw him I got him to recognize (I believe for the first time) that he's essentially fiscally conservative. He's so wrapped up in the gay=Leftist culture in San Francisco that to him, being on the Left and being a Democrat is the same as being Gay. Even though he's fiscally conservative, he's invested in equating his homosexuality with being on the Left.

Making him realize that and admit it tweaked him a little, I could tell. But I have zero doubt that he went directly back to his comfy little worldview without giving it another thought. He'll never vote for a Republican, no matter what. It's not what homosexuals in his circle of acquaintance do.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: A Deadly Double Standard
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2011, 04:35:22 PM »
I finally got to cross post at RS, see if any discussion can be generated to spark some interest.

Seems kinda hit or miss there.

I should spend more time posting there and see if we can pull some interest...

ETA - Or I'll scare the hell out of people and we'll ever see them again...it could go either way!

 ::whatgives::

 ;D
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.