Author Topic: Is the EU Going to Topple?  (Read 104388 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63641
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #200 on: May 15, 2012, 11:48:30 AM »
Wow. Just finished reading some of the comments at that Zerohedge link Libertas. Talk about a bunch of anti-Semitic, hate-spewing jerks over there. That site seems to have it's fair share of them! Yikes!

The Comments at Zero-hedge are a huge snark-fest. They are often entertaining, and in some cases impart more information than the article itself.

The nice thing about Zero-hedge is that it does seem to attract all types.. and from all over the world- often giving you a much broader perspective on how events are being perceived in different places and cultures.  Antisemitism is common in Europe - thousands of years of  Jews being the more successful "other" have ensured that. That particular article brought out that characteristic more violently than I have seen it before.

You also have a large contingent of Ron Paulbots, Gold Bugs, Anti-Corporate OWS types, Alex Jones adherents and a bunch of people who like to push the buttons of the preceding groups.   

Yup.  And any news about ouor military actions or Israel (obviously) really brings out the Jew-haters too.  And there is quite a broad mix.  I like the economic & market views and if you cut through the unnecessary comments you can glean a good picture of what is going on.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #201 on: May 15, 2012, 11:58:49 AM »
Quote
No, its deeper than that - these people derive their self-worth from believing as they believe. Their teachers made it clear to them that if you are a good person if you vote Democrat, and a bad person if you don't. They were never taught how to pay attention to the issues or how to think for themselves - they have an ingrained, Pavlovian response to politics - because the Democrats have been marketed to them since they were children. Unicorns and skittles have been associated with the Democrats and the Nazis and Hilter are the embodiment of the political right. They  don't think about it any more than they think about buying Coke vs. Pepsi, making that decision on who's ads make them feel best about themselves.
How to pursue and acquire knowledge is not being taught through the use of
critical thinking but taught as social interaction.  Knowledge is marketed as one
would market jeans which as much as we disparage group think that's what
marketing depends on and that's the way at least two generations have been
taught to analyze their world.  Critical analysis and logic befuddles them, they
perceive it as conjuring.  They are genuine bread and raised sheeple and we are
demons practicing black arts.


« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 12:04:02 PM by Charles Oakwood »

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #202 on: May 15, 2012, 12:11:33 PM »
Quote
"You voted for Democrats, they over promised on pensions to teachers and you have no money because the retired teachers are still paid near a full salary and other benefits - for doing nothing.

Are you referring to your school system specifically? 
Out here the teacher retirement system operates solely on monies withdrawn
from teachers while they were employed and it is invested/managed by the
teacher retirement system.  It requires no money from the tax payer and it's
in the black.  If the systems are managed well and do not promise more than
they are capable of producing they need not be a burden to anyone.


Offline Weisshaupt

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5731
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #203 on: May 15, 2012, 12:30:42 PM »

Are you referring to your school system specifically?  


Yes.

They are lumped into a big Public Worker Trust fund (URL Redacted/search/ci_18400597) Oh look its redacted! copy and paste /www.denverpost.com/search/ci_18400597. Geez, I wonder why that got taken down and made un-linkable?

 It will be fully funded in 30 years if we have 8% returns!  Yeah and they are raising the employer contribution every year for the next 5 years too! But don't worry ! its not a bail out! We are just requiring the state to contribute 15% of each teachers' salary to the fund, and upping that amount every year. I mean its not like taxpayers have to do that. Oh wait.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 12:47:08 PM by Weisshaupt »

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63641
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #204 on: May 15, 2012, 12:35:03 PM »
8% returns!   ::hysterical::

15% + forced contributions!   ::mooning::   ::mooning::

FAIL!!!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #205 on: May 15, 2012, 12:55:07 PM »

As I understand it. Working teachers and I believe employees such as
maintenance etc. allow TRST to deduct a certain amount from each
paycheck, they do not pay SS.  TRST takes the money and invests it
and upon retirement the employee receives a predetermined monthly
sum.  If returns to TRST are more than anticipated the retiree may
receive a bonus.  TRST made a 23% from its investments this year
[edit - for the year 2011].

  
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 12:59:24 PM by Charles Oakwood »

Offline BMG

  • Established Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1320
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #206 on: May 15, 2012, 03:07:26 PM »
LINK

Quote
According to the transcript, Greek depositors recently withdrew 700 million euros from the nation's local banks, said President Karolos Papoulias, though the exact timing of the transfer was unclear.

Um - that looks suspiciously like a run on the Greek banks to me...
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Offline Weisshaupt

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5731
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #207 on: May 15, 2012, 03:28:35 PM »

As I understand it. Working teachers and I believe employees such as
maintenance etc. allow TRST to deduct a certain amount from each
paycheck, they do not pay SS.  TRST takes the money and invests it
and upon retirement the employee receives a predetermined monthly
sum.  If returns to TRST are more than anticipated the retiree may
receive a bonus.  TRST made a 23% from its investments this year
[edit - for the year 2011].

  

But how much were they down to begin with?

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #208 on: May 15, 2012, 04:06:43 PM »

It has never been down, in as much as it's never been in a negative.

[edit]


Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63641
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #209 on: May 16, 2012, 07:45:56 AM »
LINK

Quote
According to the transcript, Greek depositors recently withdrew 700 million euros from the nation's local banks, said President Karolos Papoulias, though the exact timing of the transfer was unclear.

Um - that looks suspiciously like a run on the Greek banks to me...

Ya Da!

Stocks faded in the final hour of trading Tuesday to finish lower following news that Greek depositors withdrew 700 million euros from the nation's banking system and after Greece's leaders failed to agree on a coalition government.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47428134

But, all is well!  All is well!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline BMG

  • Established Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1320
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #210 on: May 16, 2012, 08:41:28 AM »
Quite right Libertas.

And now it looks like Italy's doing the contagion hustle today.

Quote
As Greece erupts, Italy is moving into the eye of the storm. Its economy is contracting at speeds not seen since the depths of the slump in 2009 as draconian austerity bites, greatly increasing the risk of social revolt and a banking crisis.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63641
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #211 on: May 16, 2012, 09:46:39 AM »
Quite right Libertas.

And now it looks like Italy's doing the contagion hustle today.

Quote
As Greece erupts, Italy is moving into the eye of the storm. Its economy is contracting at speeds not seen since the depths of the slump in 2009 as draconian austerity bites, greatly increasing the risk of social revolt and a banking crisis.

Thats amore Dean Martin

Or not!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63641
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #212 on: May 16, 2012, 09:48:49 AM »
A change in the Greek 300?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greece-and-after#comment-2431356

Umm, what are anti-bailout far-leftists?  Isn't that one big fat freaking lie?!  They think they can spend without incurring debt?  What, they think they are Zimbabwe?

 ::facepalm::

Greece is completely hosed!

Flee now, while you can!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63641
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #213 on: May 16, 2012, 11:11:20 AM »
Dollar only wins because the alternative is worse...   ::)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/ecb-stops-policy-operations-some-greek-banks

That'll make our next round of QE an easier sell, just keep whuppin' the Euro!   ::saywhat::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #214 on: May 16, 2012, 01:01:38 PM »

I beginning to not understand this. 
Does that mean it's about over?

Offline John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10059
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #215 on: May 16, 2012, 03:40:15 PM »

I beginning to not understand this. 
Does that mean it's about over?


 I just got off the phone with my money mangler and he's waiting for the crap to hit the Fan in EU and then he's going shopping. For him it's not if it's how soon and the combination if Greece and what happened in France and Spain has 50% unemployment with it's youth and 25% nationally and Italy is on the ropes he says the Euro might not collapse but it won't remain in its present form there will be countries that will be forced to get out after their bankruptcies.


 Here he's looking for one more spike down in interest rates and then it up up and way from there.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline Weisshaupt

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5731
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #216 on: May 16, 2012, 03:47:40 PM »

 I just got off the phone with my money mangler and he's waiting for the crap to hit the Fan in EU and then he's going shopping. For him it's not if it's how soon and the combination if Greece and what happened in France and Spain has 50% unemployment with it's youth and 25% nationally and Italy is on the ropes he says the Euro might not collapse but it won't remain in its present form there will be countries that will be forced to get out after their bankruptcies.

Going shopping for what?  Greek Islands?
The CDS exposure is huge. As the PIIGS  go the US and remaining countries are going to have to print like mad to keep banks solvent.  The counter party risks on these countries will sink everyone. There is a very large chance of a cascade failure here. They will either print to cover the losses or they will let them happen. Printing buys time, but makes the collapse worse when it hits.


Offline John Florida

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10059
  • IT'S MY FONT AND I'LL USE IT IF I WANT TO!!
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #217 on: May 16, 2012, 05:10:16 PM »

 I just got off the phone with my money mangler and he's waiting for the crap to hit the Fan in EU and then he's going shopping. For him it's not if it's how soon and the combination if Greece and what happened in France and Spain has 50% unemployment with it's youth and 25% nationally and Italy is on the ropes he says the Euro might not collapse but it won't remain in its present form there will be countries that will be forced to get out after their bankruptcies.

Going shopping for what?  Greek Islands?
The CDS exposure is huge. As the PIIGS  go the US and remaining countries are going to have to print like mad to keep banks solvent.  The counter party risks on these countries will sink everyone. There is a very large chance of a cascade failure here. They will either print to cover the losses or they will let them happen. Printing buys time, but makes the collapse worse when it hits.



 Whatever is out there that's a bargain.Panic as usual will have people selling anything and everything good or bad.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63641
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #218 on: May 17, 2012, 08:05:28 AM »
They will print.  There are rumors swirling around that both the ECB and US will be unleashing QE3...so worse down the road is coming pretty quick!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline BMG

  • Established Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1320
Re: Is the EU Going to Topple?
« Reply #219 on: May 17, 2012, 09:32:58 AM »
Yesterday there was a run on Greek banks to the tune of 850Million. Today it's being reported that over the last week there has been a run on the newly nationalized bank of Spain (bankia) to the tune of 1Billion. Once this starts I don't see how it stops. Of course I'm not some super savvy economics egghead here, but it's looking to me like the EU's gonna crash very soon.

LINK

Quote
Shares in Bankia, the Spanish bank that was part-nationalised last week, plunged by more than a quarter on Thursday morning, after a report that customers had withdrawn €1bn from the bank over the past week.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus