Author Topic: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.  (Read 7136 times)

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charlesoakwood

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2011, 07:53:01 PM »
Yah, and then they started talking ....


 ::hysterical::


Offline Janny

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2011, 10:38:53 PM »
Yah, and then they started talking ....


Yes!

The thing is, I think we're all a bit, shall we say "mired" in all the talk and give and take. I wonder sometimes how non-political junkies like us view what's going on. Think about this "flavor of the week" candidate syndrome that we seem to have been going through. First it was Chris Christie that people were enthused about, because he was taking it to the teacher's unions. Then we found out he was a worthless RINO, in short order.

Then there was Donald Trump getting some people excited, because he was plainly speaking about Obama. Then it was Bachmann. Then Perry. Now it's Cain. It seems like "our side," with the help of the pundits, puts all these people under a microscope, and the minute they say or do something we don't agree with, we are ready to throw them under the bus, in a further search for that "perfect" candidate. There is NO PERFECT CANDIDATE.

We do need to vet these people as best possible, and do everything we can to promote and nominate the best of the lot, but are they all really that bad? Won't every one (well, except for Ron Paul) be better than Obama? I know we want to reverse what Obama's done. I know we don't want someone to slow the ride off the cliff, but we do have to play the hand we've been dealt. Let's not pretend it's a fistful of deuces. They aren't all aces, but goal number one is to get Barry OUT, because if we don't, just imagine the damage he will do when he doesn't have to run for re-election!

Offline trapeze

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2011, 11:09:21 PM »
Okay, I found this NRO article linked at HotAir and it is, for me, illuminating. I had no idea, for instance how closely Herman Cain is allied with Americans For Prosperity...

Quote
Cain’s senior staff, to be sure, is more than a band of amateur enthusiasts. Most are veterans of Americans for Prosperity, an influential group with close ties to tea-party leaders and high-profile donors, such as Charles and David Koch. AFP, in many respects, launched Cain as a national conservative figure in 2005, when it tapped him as a spokesman — and he has benefited from the association.

As he traveled the country, championing AFP’s free-market principles, Cain developed relationships with strategists who lacked reputations in Washington but had extensive experience elsewhere, especially in Midwestern conservative circles. Mark Block, Cain’s campaign manager, was one such operative (and has been the brains behind Cain’s White House hopes). Another is Linda Hansen, Block’s deputy.

AFP is full of some very serious people and I find it difficult to believe that they would invest in Cain if there was no "there" there. So that's somewhat encouraging.

Regarding the amateurish nature of his campaign the article offers this:

Quote
Florida state representative Scott Plakon, Cain’s leading Sunshine State booster...points out that Cain may, to a certain extent, be following an AFP model from Wisconsin, but thinks that, in a broader sense, Cain is adapting to the new way in which people now communicate, in the tea-party movement and beyond. Cain, he says, with very few official staffers in Florida, was able to win the state’s straw poll, due to his ability to connect blocs of voters who are eager to spread the word on social-media platforms. If Cain can win like that in Florida, he says, he can do the same across the country, even in states with expensive television markets.

So, I dunno. If he can stop with the verbal missteps or at the very least scale them back to one or two a month then maybe he can pull it off.

There are no perfect candidates. And, yeah, I do like this group much better than the pack of idiots from the last go round but I still can't help myself from wanting someone who can get through a media event without stepping on their own tongue in the process...someone who can clearly and proudly  articulate the conservative POV. I don't want a lot. It's sort of a minimum level of expectation and I do get disappointed when someone fails to properly pull it off.

I thought that Bachmann could be that person until she jumped the shark with her retard-in-a-needle fantasy about Gardasil and then her subsequent refusal to walk it back which got even worse when she doubled down on it. Then we found out that that was not an anomaly but rather the most recent incident in a long history of making sh*t up on the fly. So even though I like her a lot and admire her conservative credentials, I can't get over a character flaw that makes her look ridiculous at any particular moment that she decides to let loose with a whopper.

With Romney I am on record from last time as to his weaknesses. Nothing has changed with him but circumstances have. Last time we knew about RomneyCare but then there was no such thing as ObamaCare. Now that ObamaCare is a reality RomneyCare takes on a very heavy millstone-like quality for Romney. His other lib positions from his MA days are as bad or worse. And then there's the whole Mormon thing. I will explain for those who weren't here three years ago: No, short of scientology, satanism and other pure cults, a man's religion shouldn't have any bearing on his presidential aspirations but the reality is that the media will give Mormonism the full anal exam and it won't be pretty. That's just the way it is. Do a little bit of reading about some of the more arcane aspects of Mormonism and then you will know. I'm not going into that level of detail here.

Gingrich could be great and I would really like to see him debate the Dingus. But he has political and personal baggage: Failed marriages do not endear one to the conservative base...especially when the breakups happen like his have. His political baggage is infamous and I won't bother discussing it here either.

Santorum is a great conservative but not quite great enough or he would still hold elective office. He got his ass handed to him in 2006 and hasn't done anything since. And he's getting no traction at all. That may be unfair but that's the way it is.

Perry may make a comeback. From a purely governing point of view he has the most experience and it's the right kind of experience. It may be too late for him but maybe not. He has issues some of which (immigration) are very bothersome for me.

Paul is a joke as are Huntsman and Johnson and aren't worthy of serious discussion.

So, except for the last three and Romney (the establishment RINO), the others are all serious contenders and any of them could mop the floor with Toonces. I think Romney could beat President Zero, too, but we can do better than him.

The question comes down to who would be the best representative of conservatism.

And at this time I honestly do not know who that person is.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Online Pandora

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2011, 12:30:31 AM »
I want to ask a question here, seriously.  SERIOUSLY.

If Pandora was running for president, given my previous statements of which some of you are aware, but for those who aren't, the record is available, would you support my candidacy?

I've done nothing "world-worthy".  I'm not in debt, never was unfaithful to my husband.  I had a life before him, though and there are those who will gladly fill in those blanks; not a college graduate, nor a business owner.  I'm strongly opinionated, yet lean Constitutionally.

I'm the least of the worst, actually, though, what we have before us are some who have taken risks, failed and succeeded  -- I've done that but not in a venue you'd certify as risky -- said things on and off record, and we presume to judge them as we do not judge ourselves, it seems.

I'm apprised of Romney's record, and not inclined to let him have the most powerful chair in the world; he's a finger in the wind guy.  Gingrich is a known element, intelligent and quick-witted, and unstable -- that's his record, personal and public.  Perry disappoints; he's had every opportunity to be the man whom we can get behind and yet some of his positions are unsupportable, such as illegal immigration related issues.  Bachmann, damnit.  Why she felt the need to hang her principles on a junk-science myth, I don't know; doesn't bode well for the next child-centric pseudo-scientific scam to raise its head. 

Cain.  Let's get to Cain.  Reports of his Church connections are beginning to surface.  The pastor/preacher is a liberationist, yet there are reports of his attendance without yielding; fellow parishioners say he held to his beliefs yet continued church membership and they respect that.

Sarah Palin declined to entertain us with her presence.  If I was her, I might have done the same, but the anal exam was over and all that was left was an uncertain ability to defend against the unreasonable yet popular hatred.  It is, in some circles, a mark of honor to hate Sarah Palin.

Any of these folks might just as well be me once the proctological exam was over.  Or you.

Going off into the sphere of what ought and what ought not be:  if the position of the President of these United States is so vital to our survival that we cannot afford to permit a person with ordinary foibles, it is not the person-that-does-not-exist with whom we must find fault.  No one can be comfortably elected, then.  We must forthwith reduce the import and power which this person can wield; we must once again properly contain the office.

"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2011, 12:41:21 AM »
...Any of these folks might just as well be me once the proctological exam was over.  Or you.

Going off into the sphere of what ought and what ought not be:  if the position of the President of these United States is so vital to our survival that we cannot afford to permit a person with ordinary foibles, it is not the person-that-does-not-exist with whom we must find fault.  No one can be comfortably elected, then.  We must forthwith reduce the import and power which this person can wield; we must once again properly contain the office.




A well-crafted thought that deserves repeating.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Delnorin

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2011, 12:45:01 AM »
I follow Cain's twitters: 

This was from 12 hours ago:
THEHermanCain Herman Cain
I'm 100% pro-life. End of story.

This was my response to him in my own Twitter:
Delnorin @ THEHermanCain It's a 3rd grade political question, know what you believe and practice your answer. Embarrassing defending you so often.


From 3 hours ago:
THEHermanCain Herman Cain
Tomorrow at 10 am ET I will unveil last part of my 999 plan for Revitalizing America. Join me at
http://hermancain.com/livestream

Offline trapeze

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2011, 02:19:33 AM »

Going off into the sphere of what ought and what ought not be:  if the position of the President of these United States is so vital to our survival that we cannot afford to permit a person with ordinary foibles, it is not the person-that-does-not-exist with whom we must find fault.  No one can be comfortably elected, then.  We must forthwith reduce the import and power which this person can wield; we must once again properly contain the office.



That would be workable in a non-nuclear world.

Also the guy (or girl) gets to veto stuff, negotiate treaties and nominate a lot of peeps including SCOTUS types.

So it's a pretty important gig even if you strip it down to its essentials.

No place for RINOs and pretty tough on the job learning curve.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2011, 08:01:07 AM »
Republican government works, if the principles of Republican government are honored and not sapped by unsavory types who look to enrich themselves or their party instead of looking to ways to allow all Americans the ability to enrich themselves as they see fit to do so.  We will never be the nation we want to be as long as bad characters and bloated government remains the norm.  I'll echo the sentiment that nobody is perfect, if they were, well, we'd know Jesus is back in town.  Does that mean we settle for less than the best we can get?  Nope.  But not getting the best we can get ultimately is our responsibility.  As I focus upon Pan's point about the "proctological exam", I am drawn to the conclusion that this is a symptom of the progressive disease We have let creep into every fabric of our lives.  Are we not getting the best candidates because of the harsh treatment they are subject to from State Run Media or are we not getting the best candidates because the right candidate is not brave enough to enter the fray?  Are we condemned to settle for second tier less-than-perfect candidates for perpetuity?  I am often despondent about our future prospects as a people and a nation, but at the same time I am not a hands-thrown-up defeatist or committed fatalist, I tend to interpret things as I see them, a realist if you will.  Nothing is predetermined unless you wish it to be so, and if enough momentum is directed to that end the predetermined becomes reality.  If We really wanted to effect the kind of action we desire and focus that attention on the right person we think can bring that action to life, we'd all be happily moving in the right direction.  The big questions revolve around how we get that kind of momentum going and directed at the same goal?  In 1860 Lincoln won the nomination on the third ballot at the convention after Seward failed to secure it in the earlier rounds.  It is a lot harder in todays process to get people to coalesce around one candidate, but the principle is the same.  Until the current field is lightened people will bounce around with their preferences.  It's still up to us.  For me I like to cut through the noise and make things simple.  I am not now nor will I ever support a Ruling Class type for any office in this nation, period.  That is the only litmus test to me that makes the most sense.  Beyond that...what am I...Nostradamus?  Make a choice!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2011, 12:53:45 PM »

Going off into the sphere of what ought and what ought not be:  if the position of the President of these United States is so vital to our survival that we cannot afford to permit a person with ordinary foibles, it is not the person-that-does-not-exist with whom we must find fault.  No one can be comfortably elected, then.  We must forthwith reduce the import and power which this person can wield; we must once again properly contain the office.



That would be workable in a non-nuclear world.

Nope.  As you wrote below, the power and authority to deal with that is Constitutional and that's the box into which it must be shoved back.

Quote
Also the guy (or girl) gets to veto stuff, negotiate treaties and nominate a lot of peeps including SCOTUS types.

So it's a pretty important gig even if you strip it down to its essentials.

No place for RINOs and pretty tough on the job learning curve.

Yep, yep, nope, yep.

Nevertheless, each succeeding president has accrued to himself unauthorized power.

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Offline IronDioPriest

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"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2011, 04:25:06 PM »
...and I think this represents a concrete sign of the implosion that we've been witnessing in pieces for the past several days...



 ::gaah:: ::gaah:: ::gaah::

So if he can't handle a question about an issue that's been around for 30 years how's he going to handle a crisis?


Did I say  ::gaah:: ::gaah:: ::gaah:: ?

Oh, yeah, I did.


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Offline Janny

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2011, 04:30:13 PM »
...and I think this represents a concrete sign of the implosion that we've been witnessing in pieces for the past several days...



 ::gaah:: ::gaah:: ::gaah::

So if he can't handle a question about an issue that's been around for 30 years how's he going to handle a crisis?


Did I say  ::gaah:: ::gaah:: ::gaah:: ?

Oh, yeah, I did.




Bingo! He may be a very smart man, but he's showing definite signs that he can't think on his feet. That's not someone I want up against Obama. ::gaah:: ::gaah:: ::gaah::

Offline Glock32

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2011, 04:34:54 PM »
...and I think this represents a concrete sign of the implosion that we've been witnessing in pieces for the past several days...



 ::gaah:: ::gaah:: ::gaah::

So if he can't handle a question about an issue that's been around for 30 years how's he going to handle a crisis?


Did I say  ::gaah:: ::gaah:: ::gaah:: ?

Oh, yeah, I did.




Bingo! He may be a very smart man, but he's showing definite signs that he can't think on his feet. That's not someone I want up against Obama. ::gaah:: ::gaah:: ::gaah::

Not to mention Ahmadinnerjacket.
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2011, 04:41:05 PM »
Quote
he's showing definite signs that he can't think on his feet

AND that is exactly what we need someone to be able to do!
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Offline michelleo

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2011, 05:27:05 PM »
This election isn't and can't be based on abortion.  I am so sick and tired of the same d*** social issues coming up election after election.  Cain should have stuck with his first answer - he's against abortions, and the federal government doesn't have jurisdiction over matters of abortion, federal government shouldn't be funding it, legality should be up to the states.  The fact that he got bullied into changing his answer to the idea that abortion should be illegal and he plans to appoint judges who would support making it illegal everywhere is going to hurt him, which really burns me.  The country's economy is about to implode and we're debating the same d*** Gloria-Steinem issue AGAIN. 

Where this country needs to head is in the direction of greater individual liberty, less government interference, and citizens butting out of each other lives.  If that means that abortion remains legal in some states because the citizens of those states made that decision, then so be it.  "End of Story."

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2011, 05:39:05 PM »
From my perspective, the troubling thing is not his stance on abortion. I am avidly pro-life, and my gut tells me Herman Cain is too. I think he would appoint good judges.

To me, the troubling aspect is his apparent lack of forethought in a bid for the presidency. It seems as if he approached the whole thing lackadaisically, and just expected to be able to wing the answers to routine questions without a single thought to public perception.

Before he can do ANYTHING, he has to win the presidency. It doesn't seem at all clear to me that he understands that.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 06:28:57 PM by trapeze »
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2011, 06:13:21 PM »
From my perspective, the troubling thing is not his stance on abortion. I am avidly pro-life, and my gut tells me Herman Cain is too. I think he would appoint god judges.

To me, the troubling aspect is his apparent lack of forethought in a bid for the presidency. It seems as if he approached the whole thing lackadaisically, and just expected to be able to wing the answers to routine questions without a single thought to public perception.

Before he can do ANYTHING, he has to win the presidency. It doesn't seem at all clear to me that he understands that.

Exactly!   ::thumbsup::
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Offline Janny

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2011, 06:20:31 PM »
This election isn't and can't be based on abortion.  I am so sick and tired of the same d*** social issues coming up election after election.  Cain should have stuck with his first answer - he's against abortions, and the federal government doesn't have jurisdiction over matters of abortion, federal government shouldn't be funding it, legality should be up to the states.  The fact that he got bullied into changing his answer to the idea that abortion should be illegal and he plans to appoint judges who would support making it illegal everywhere is going to hurt him, which really burns me.  The country's economy is about to implode and we're debating the same d*** Gloria-Steinem issue AGAIN. 

Where this country needs to head is in the direction of greater individual liberty, less government interference, and citizens butting out of each other lives.  If that means that abortion remains legal in some states because the citizens of those states made that decision, then so be it.  "End of Story."

The protection of human life...particularly the unborn...is a big deal to me.  You may not like social issues, and you may consider the destruction of human life in the womb an "individual liberty," but I don't, and I vote accordingly.  And there are plenty of people like me, probably the majority of voters, so your assumption that Cain's pro-life views will hurt him is not necessarily valid.

Offline trapeze

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2011, 06:30:55 PM »
What's hurting Cain is the very real perception that he can't handle the details of basic conservative positions.

Social.

Foreign Policy.

Take your pick of what will hit the fan next.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Ugh. Now Cain blows an easy abortion question.
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2011, 06:48:00 PM »
What's hurting Cain is the very real perception that he can't handle the details of basic conservative positions.

Social.

Foreign Policy.

Take your pick of what will hit the fan next.

Yup. Sad to say, and sad to see.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson