Topic: Not telling anybody else what to think or do, but...

[trapeze]

One reason that I think that Gingrich might win (because that's what we're really discussing here...who is going to win the booby prize) is that he has already been thoroughly vetted by the MFM. I honestly cannot think of anything they could possibly dredge up on Gingrich that we haven't already seen or heard. If the MFM attempts to expose him for whatever issue you care to think of I think that the public will collectively yawn and change channels.

There isn't any other candidate that you can say that about.

Just saying.

[IronDioPriest]

...He has squandered my initial trust and benefit of the doubt. I just don't see where it goes from here.

Pity.

That's where I'm at. A gaffe is a gaffe, and two gaffes are two gaffes. But a gaffe every few days is a pattern. And unfamiliarity with issues concerning the presidency when you are running for president aren't really gaffes, they're just disregard. Herman Cain has a pattern of complete disregard.

The more I think about it, the more pissed I get - that this man would present himself as the answer for Americans who are fed up with career politicians, and then proceed through ineptitude to essentially make the case for career politicians. He's putting a dagger in the breast of the Tea Party by damaging future prospects and credibility of non-career citizen politicians. Only time will tell if that dagger hits the heart.

[BigAlSouth]

But, yeah, Cain isn't serious. He is already an embarrassment to me. I can't support someone who knows less about just about every major and minor issue than I do.

Ain't that the truth. Believe me, I saw Herman Cain as my Hope and Change guy.  For me, it boils down to this: If Mark Block is the best Cain can find, then the country would not prosper under a Cain presidency. Remember when Bush II was criticized (unfairly) as lacking the "intellectual curiosity" to be President? I am of the opinion that such a charge can be made against my former First Choice: Herman Cain.

[Libertas]

 

Y'all bringing me down again...now I'm swinging to not voting at all...going Galt seems the better option now...the fate of the world can fend for itself...

 

[BMG]

Whoa now Libertas...lets not get all crazy here! Not voting at all means you're really pulling the lever for Obama. How would that square with you? It'd make me nauseous! Writing in a candidate that has no hope of wining is also pulling the lever for Obama...so the only thing to do is hold your nose and vote for not Obama if that's the way things come down for you (or anyone else for that matter).

[Libertas]

Whoa now Libertas...lets not get all crazy here! Not voting at all means you're really pulling the lever for Obama. How would that square with you? It'd make me nauseous! Writing in a candidate that has no hope of wining is also pulling the lever for Obama...so the only thing to do is hold your nose and vote for not Obama if that's the way things come down for you (or anyone else for that matter).

Aaawwhhh!  I thought this was the crazy thread!

 

[BMG]

It all still comes down to this for me:

Romney = liberal. Not a choice. I would absolutely have to hold my nose to cast my vote for this clown.

Gingrich = technocrat. Barely a conservative; way better than Romney, but still a bad choice. I would have to hold my nose to vote for him.

Cain = actual conservative. At first he seemed great, now appears to be dumb as a box of rocks. But that actual conservative part back at the beginning trumps an awful lot of stuff (at least until a better conservative that isn't dumb as a box of rocks comes along which doesn't seem likely at this point). I used to think I could happily cast my vote for him now I could do it, but with reservations...at least I wouldn't have to hold my nose to do so like with the other 2.

I say this about Cain not because I'm defending the guy (because his last couple weeks have been deplorable - and not because of the trumped up scandal by the MSM) but because he genuinely seems to be the only guy left in the race that has actual conservative values. If he has a value base that starts with conservatism, he'll end up making the right decisions at the end of the day...or at least more of the right decisions than the other two.

As far as Trap's observations about Perry, I guess I'm not seeing where he's still in the race so I've written him off...and I'm not sure that he'd be any better than Newt anyway even if Trap's synopsis is correct. That's not to say that you're wrong or anything Trap, you've a valid point after all. Perry may well still be in the race. I'm just not at the same point as you concerning this.

I also agree with rickl's post about Foxmark's quote. I think that synopsis hits the nail right on the head concerning the situation we have to contend with. I think Bachmann's out of the race which leaves us only two viable choices: Cain and Gingrich.

So that's where I'm sitting at the moment; a choice between Newt and Herman.
If Newt stays true to his own history then he's not going to be a good president and may well do more damage to the country if he were.
Herman may yet wise up and pull his head out of his netherparts. That's the best possible route in my opinion.

I don't see any better choice right now, unless I'm missing something. And if I'm missing something could someone point me in the right direction?

[BMG]

Not to worry Libertas - in this political climate, we're ALL a little crazy!   

[Libertas]

I'm not worried....yet!  Lot a time and a ton of ground to cover before any clear picture emerges, that's a fact!

[Pandora]

It comes back to Congress at that point. I hate to put our national salvation in the hands of Congress but that's really what it will come down to. And there is some recent precedent for it. The Class of 1994 was truly amazing. They rose to the occasion and fulfilled the Contract With America and then proceeded to reform welfare, balance the budget and create a budget surplus (even though the MFM gave Clinton the credit for it).

If we end up with a weak president (from a conservative point of view) then there is a very strong incentive for Congress to rise up and lead in his place. A weak president will sign whatever legislation the Congress sends his way.

True, trap.  I'm keeping in mind that Jim DeMint is very well aware of this as well, which is why he's devoted himself to increasing the Conservative presence in the Senate by supporting and endorsing those candidates as he sees them.

Then, there is the issue of judges.  I can see Newt's head being swayed by the 'angels dancing on pinhead types'.  Romney?  Fuhgeddaboudit.  Cain?  *sigh*  Cain.  I had hopes that he would have the judgement to pick advisers that would fill-in-his-blanks, but I see failure in that arena, as IDP wrote; what kind judges will he appoint, relying as he does on poor advisers like Mark Block?

[charlesoakwood]

One reason that I think that Gingrich might win (because that's what we're really discussing here...who is going to win the booby prize) is that he has already been thoroughly vetted by the MFM. I honestly cannot think of anything they could possibly dredge up on Gingrich that we haven't already seen or heard. If the MFM attempts to expose him for whatever issue you care to think of I think that the public will collectively yawn and change channels.

There isn't any other candidate that you can say that about.

Just saying.

I don't think the voting public has a clue to the baggage Gingrich has.  When the MFM starts unloading on him - ethics violations, philandering, etc. - many voters will shy away from him.

[IronDioPriest]

...Cain?  *sigh*  Cain.  I had hopes that he would have the judgement to pick advisers that would fill-in-his-blanks, but I see failure in that arena, as IDP wrote; what kind judges will he appoint, relying as he does on poor advisers like Mark Block?

Interviewer: "Can you tell us what kind of judges you'd appoint if you are elected president?"

Cain: "Judges.... (eyeroll, nervously look to the ceiling) Judges... now, are you talking about federal judges? The president appoints those, right? I just wanna make sure we're talking about the same thing before I answer... Now here's the thing... I would of course, as an executive in a leadership role, surround myself with the best people to help me make those kinds of decisions. I wouldn't put myself in the position of appointing judges and then having to fire them weeks or months later because they aren't doing their job..."

Interviewer: "But Mr. Cain, federal judges are appointed for a lifetime tenure."

Cain: (long pause) "Yes, right, lifetime tenure. I was making a joke, OK. You'll notice I'm an unconventional candidate. (laughs) As I was saying, I would surround myself with advisers who work within the legal system to help guide my decisions, and make sure that the judges I appoint are fair-minded people who come to decisions based on all the evidence, and weigh that evidence against the facts of the case, and who would come up with a solution to the dispute that would be satisfactory to both parties."

Interviewer: "So you wouldn't be holding your nominees to a constitutional litmus test, as Tea Party activists are demanding?"

Cain: (agitated) "I NEVER SAID THAT! (smiles) Now, what I did say, is that I would use the best people in my administration to choose good, fair judges who first and foremost obey the constitution. THAT'S what I said, and what I meant."

The above is of course, a little creative writing on my part. But hold that creativity up against real statements made by Herman Cain regarding several key issues, and the above fictitious conversation is no more out of the realm of possibility - or dare I say probability - than reality. He has really become THAT impossible to defend, IMHO.

[Libertas]

[Weisshaupt]

Y'all bringing me down again...now I'm swinging to not voting at all...going Galt seems the better option now...the fate of the world can fend for itself...

 

Amen.

[Weisshaupt]

Whoa now Libertas...lets not get all crazy here! Not voting at all means you're really pulling the lever for Obama. How would that square with you? It'd make me nauseous! Writing in a candidate that has no hope of wining is also pulling the lever for Obama...so the only thing to do is hold your nose and vote for not Obama if that's the way things come down for you (or anyone else for that matter).

Pulling the lever for Obama might be the smart move given what is coming, especially if we can't offer an alternative we think will actually move the cause forward.  Half-measures are pointless, and we shouldn't expend limited resources on battles that will gain us nothing.

Here is the slogan:
OBAMA 2012- Don't Interrupt the enemy while he is committing Suicide.

Like the OWS crowd, the longer it goes on, the better  conservatives look. . Same goes for an Obama Presidency. Let  Big Government collapse on him. Let the looters, moochers, and rent seekers experience the long hard winter while their side is in office.. Let them test their faith in Big Government with empty bellies and violent riots. Let them learn that the only person they can depend on is them (or let them die refusing to learn)

Our only hope is a long hard winter to eradicate the locust vermin, and to make sure the vermin know that the winter is of their own devising.

[Damn_Lucky]

...He has squandered my initial trust and benefit of the doubt. I just don't see where it goes from here.

Pity.

That's where I'm at. A gaffe is a gaffe, and two gaffes are two gaffes. But a gaffe every few days is a pattern. And unfamiliarity with issues concerning the presidency when you are running for president aren't really gaffes, they're just disregard. Herman Cain has a pattern of complete disregard.

The more I think about it, the more pissed I get - that this man would present himself as the answer for Americans who are fed up with career politicians, and then proceed through ineptitude to essentially make the case for career politicians. He's putting a dagger in the breast of the Tea Party by damaging future prospects and credibility of non-career citizen politicians. Only time will tell if that dagger hits the heart.

Ok I'm not a conspiracy theorist but that "Dagger" part makes me think...... ....... ....

[LadyVirginia]

Mr. Cain--

It's called WIKIPEDIA!

 

[BMG]

Pulling the lever for Obama might be the smart move given what is coming, especially if we can't offer an alternative we think will actually move the cause forward.  Half-measures are pointless, and we shouldn't expend limited resources on battles that will gain us nothing.

Here is the slogan:
OBAMA 2012- Don't Interrupt the enemy while he is committing Suicide.

Like the OWS crowd, the longer it goes on, the better  conservatives look. . Same goes for an Obama Presidency. Let  Big Government collapse on him. Let the looters, moochers, and rent seekers experience the long hard winter while their side is in office.. Let them test their faith in Big Government with empty bellies and violent riots. Let them learn that the only person they can depend on is them (or let them die refusing to learn)

Our only hope is a long hard winter to eradicate the locust vermin, and to make sure the vermin know that the winter is of their own devising.

I would normally agree completely with this sentiment Weisshaupt. But the trouble with it is the supreme court. If Obama gets re-elected he will have the best opportunity to cause the absolute most damage to the country - damage that is basically irreversible...simply by putting another 1 or 2 liberals on the bench at the supreme court.

[Glock32]

I would normally agree completely with this sentiment Weisshaupt. But the trouble with it is the supreme court. If Obama gets re-elected he will have the best opportunity to cause the absolute most damage to the country - damage that is basically irreversible...simply by putting another 1 or 2 liberals on the bench at the supreme court.

Considering what Reagan-appointee and allegedly stalwart conservative jurist Silberman recently opined, regarding Obamacare, I'm not sure it really matters that conservatives get to make the appointments. There's just something about government itself that infects those who spend too much time in it, they become more and more enamored of its hulking mass. It becomes the center of the universe, they become mere technocrats who, rather than keeping it small and focused, decide the best course of action is to be ever tinkering with it in an effort to make it somehow more efficient. This is a point Mark Steyn has been making for years about the nominal Right in Europe. Even there conservatives will win the occasional election, but what does it really mean? It just means they have made the argument that they can operate the Leftist State better than the actual Left can. When the Left owns the bureaucracy, and so many of the pillars of culture (education, media, etc), electoral politics end up having much less influence. Conservatives are reduced to being caretakers, or as Steyn suggested in an analogy in his latest book, they become like the plebes at an English boarding school keeping the toilet seats in the unheated lavatory warm for the upperclassmen.

Honestly I think Weisshaupt has the right assessment of this situation. We're not approaching a point of no return, we've already left it in the dust. This whole thing is going to blow up in everyone's faces and soon, I mean we have an entire economy based almost entirely on mere notional value and the bulk of even that is in the form of IOUs made on behalf of people who have yet to be conceived by parents who have themselves yet to be conceived. This jig is up in a big way. The 2012 election really and truly is the election for who we want to be the fall guy when it happens.

[Libertas]

"Even there conservatives will win the occasional election, but what does it really mean? It just means they have made the argument that they can operate the Leftist State better than the actual Left can. When the Left owns the bureaucracy, and so many of the pillars of culture (education, media, etc), electoral politics end up having much less influence. Conservatives are reduced to being caretakers, or as Steyn suggested in an analogy in his latest book, they become like the plebes at an English boarding school keeping the toilet seats in the unheated lavatory warm for the upperclassmen."

Kinda says it all right there!   

And if the fit hits the shan and Repub is in office, said Repub will get all the blame.  Look at Stymie right now...has anyone in our history...hell, the history of the world...moved faster than this guy in ruining a nation?!  If we cannot get the right person in that office, we are effed no matter what.  Like what G said above, all a run-of-the-mill Repub can do is warm a toilet seat...or as I call it...the choice between a slow death or a quick one.

I'm so tired of compromising and settling...I honestly do not think I am capable of doing that crap anymore.  In each persons life we all reach a point where we just can't do the same crap over and over again and expect the results to be different.  To do so is beyond futility...it is potentially pathologically stupid.  So when I say ABO is not an option, I mean it is not an option.  We literally have one last shot to get this right or any chance at a peaceful restoration of republican government as the Founders intended is gone forever.  People can argue we have time, a delaying action will work yadda yadda yadda...but the question we all have to ask ourselves is "do we believe we have that time"?  I don't.  Until we purge the Ruling Class pol's & operatives out of the GOP or circumvent the GOP entirely our situation has zero chance of a turnaround.  Zero.  And time is only growing less and less available...