Author Topic: Abortion: Science or Legalism  (Read 1730 times)

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Abortion: Science or Legalism
« on: November 27, 2011, 11:25:45 AM »
IMHO, the big problem with the discussion about Abortion in America today is that it always revolves around legal decisions and not scientific fact, something Rick Santorum pointed out not too long ago.

Scientifically, the "fetus" is a human being: He/She has human blood, human flesh, human DNA, which makes him or her human; not a dog, not a cat, not a bird, but human. And when he or she is sucked through a vacuum tube and destroyed, what has just been destroyed is a human life. That is science. That is fact.

But what is all too often being focused on instead of this scientific fact is the "legalisms" of "personhood", whether or not the child in the womb is legally a person. Now, does anyone know what is wrong with that? What is wrong with that is, that is what was done to the slaves. Their blood and DNA were human too, they were human beings too, but the law denied them personhood, and that is what is being done here too. There was no scientific basis to deny slaves their human rights, only legal decisions based on predjudice and wrong-headed thinking, and the same goes for the child in the womb today.

Abortion is the destruction of human life. Thats science. I don't care what a judge says or what a lawyer says or what some Democrat says: What I am saying is SCIENCE and is FACT. The child in the womb, scientifically is a human being, and therefore killing him or her is murder.

EDIT: And it is noteworthy to add that the DNA of a fetus is uniquely different the the mother's DNA, which pretty much blows away the "its my body" argument. That uniqiue DNA is PROOF that the child in the womb is an indivudual person, not part of the mother's body.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 01:51:22 PM by CatholicCrusader »

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Re: Abortion: Science or Legalism
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2011, 11:37:53 AM »
Well put CC.

I've always marveled at the demonic dance that abortion advocates must dance to get around the simple fact that when you abort you murder. To my way of thinking it is simply undeniable.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Abortion: Science or Legalism
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2011, 12:56:19 PM »
Well put CC.

I've always marveled at the demonic dance that abortion advocates must dance to get around the simple fact that when you abort you murder. To my way of thinking it is simply undeniable.

Don't confuse Legal with Moral as liberals do. "Murder", the crime, has a legal definition, and that is why we are dragged into the personhood argument. "Do not Murder" the commandment is a moral duty. I don't think there is any question that abortion is murder in the Christian moral sense of the word. However, I  oppose the legal imposition of Christian morality as much as I dislike the imposition of Sharia or Liberal values via government force. The inalienable Right of Conscience should allow each of us to make our own moral decisions. And I can't claim right for myself without also claiming it for others - and yes, that means leaving others free to make their own moral decisions - as long as those decisions don't harm or violate the rights of others- thus bringing us around to the definition of "personhood" again.

It is wrong to murder a personbut what qualities are required to be a person - is it just having a human genetic code ? Is it Sentience? Is it breathing atmospheric air? Being able to survive without the mother... whatever. The key is to make a liberal answer.

Most liberals would agree it would be immoral to  blow up a building with a person inside , so you ask how the liberal knows that there is no person in that womb. As with all liberal beliefs they will simply say they have a right to their own opinion ( and facts)  so I find that I gain more traction granting the supposition of the liberal- that the fetus is not a person.  If so, then it must NOT be  murder to kill a fetus when the woman wants the baby?  And if that is so, would it not be okay for me to go around and kill every fetus that might be born to a liberal family (with the caveat that I can simply kill the fetus without any harm or discomfort to the mother) ? Inevitably the liberal is forced to admit that in their view  its the mother's whim if the fetus is a person or not - and not any quality of the fetus that determines it.  That they are simply imposing their moral view and will upon the PERSON in the womb, and if they have that right, then I have the right to vote to impose my moral view on them and prevent them from doing harm to that fetus -person or not. They can, or course take the hard line and say killing a wanted fetus isn't murder, but then you just make them promise to tell you when they conceive their first child, and ask to let you put them to the test. Of course most liberals aren't smart enough to stick to the de-humanizing word "fetus" and will slip up and say "baby" =once the term baby is used, you have them.

What "Choice" would this "baby", this "person" make?

Ultimately, however, do you really trust a woman unclear on this to raise a child?  In the end it may be more prcatical to  let them have their choice.  God can ultimately deal with them better than we can, and maybe it will keep the population of the animalistic, selfish heathen to a minimum.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 01:01:57 PM by Weisshaupt »

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Re: Abortion: Science or Legalism
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2011, 01:02:24 PM »
Life at Conception Act is a perfect way to define life legally and give the unborn protection under the 14th A

My name is Tina and I work with the National Pro-Life Alliance.

I received the email below from Senator Wicker and made sure to add my own name to the Life at Conception Act petition right away.

You see, the Life at Conception Act declares life to begin at conception, overturning Roe v. Wade by using the Supreme Court's own language.

I know that to finally end the slaughter of unborn babies in our country this is the bill we must pass!

Will you take just a moment to sign this important petition by clicking here?

After signing the petition, please consider chipping in with a donation to NPLA.

If you need more information on this petition, please read the email below.


Tina T.
National Pro-Life Alliance

From: Senator Roger Wicker []
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:47 PM
Subject: The time to grovel is over

Dear Friend,

For 38 years, nine unelected men and women on the Supreme Court have played God with innocent human life.

They have invented laws that condemned to painful deaths without trial more than 56 million babies for the crime of being "inconvenient."

In 1973, the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade ruling forced abortion-on-demand down our nation's throat.

In the past, many in the pro-life movement have felt limited to protecting a life here and there -- passing some limited law to slightly control abortion in the more outrageous cases.

But some pro-lifers always seem to tiptoe around the Supreme Court, hoping they won't be offended.

Now the time to grovel before the Supreme Court is over.

Working from what the Supreme Court ruled in Roe v. Wade, pro-life lawmakers can pass a Life at Conception Act and end abortion using the Constitution instead of amending it.

That is why it's so urgent you sign the petition to your Senators and Congressman by clicking here.

You see, while the national media has talked a lot about the impact of economic issues on this past election the untold story is just how well pro-life candidates did.

So it is vital every Member of Congress be put on record.

A Life at Conception Act declares unborn children "persons" as defined by the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, entitled to legal protection.

This is the one thing the Supreme Court admitted in Roe v. Wade that would cause the case for legal abortion to "collapse."

When the Supreme Court handed down its now-infamous Roe v. Wade decision, it did so based on a new, previously undefined "right of privacy" which it "discovered" in so-called "emanations" of "penumbrae" of the Constitution.

Of course, as constitutional law it was a disaster.

But never once did the Supreme Court declare abortion itself to be a constitutional right.

Instead the Supreme Court said:

"We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins . . . the judiciary at this point in the development of man's knowledge is not in a position to speculate as to the answer."

Then the High Court made a key admission:

"If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant's case [i.e., "Roe" who sought an abortion], of course, collapses, for the fetus' right to life is then guaranteed specifically by the [14th] Amendment."

The fact is, the 14th Amendment couldn't be clearer:

". . . nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law."

Furthermore, the 14th Amendment says:

"Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

That's exactly what a Life at Conception Act would do.

But this simple, logical and obviously right legislation will not become law without a fight.

And that's where your help is critical.

By turning up the heat through a massive, national, grass-roots campaign in this session of Congress, one of two things will happen.

If you and other pro-life activists pour on enough pressure, pro-lifers can force politicians from both parties who were elected on pro-life platforms to make good on their promises and ultimately win passage of this bill.

But even if a Life at Conception Act doesn't pass immediately, the public attention will send another crew of radical abortionists down to defeat in the next election.

Either way, the unborn win . . . unless you do nothing.

That's why the National Pro-Life Alliance is contacting hundreds of thousands of Americans just like you to mobilize a grass-roots army to pass a Life at Conception Act.

The first thing you must do is sign your petition by clicking here.

They are the key ingredient in the National Pro-Life Alliance's plan to pass a Life at Conception Act. They'll also organize:

... Hard-hitting TV, radio and newspaper ads to be run just before each vote, detailing the horrors of abortion and mobilizing the American people.

... Extensive personal lobbying of key members of Congress by rank and file National Pro-Life Alliance members and staff.

... A series of newspaper columns to be distributed free to all 1,437 daily newspapers now published in the United States.

... An extensive email, direct mail and telephone campaign to generate at least one million petitions to Congress like the one linked to in this letter.
Of course, to do all this will take a lot of money.

Just to email and mail the letters necessary to produce one million petitions will cost at least $460,000.

Newspaper, TV and radio are even more expensive.

But I'm sure you'll agree pro-lifers cannot just sit by watching the slaughter continue.

The National Pro-Life Alliance's goal is to deliver one million petitions to the House and Senate in support of a Life at Conception Act.

When the bill comes up for a vote in Congress, it is crucial to have the full weight of an informed public backing the pro-life position.

I feel confident that the folks at National Pro-Life Alliance can gather those one million petitions.

But even though many Americans who receive this email will sign the petitions, many won't be able to contribute. That's why it's vital you give $15, $25, $50, $100, or even more if you can.

Without your help the National Pro-Life Alliance will be unable to gather the one million petitions and mount the full-scale national campaign necessary to pass a Life at Conception Act.

A sacrificial gift of $35 or even $100 or $500 now could spare literally millions of innocent babies in years to come.

So please respond right away with your signed petition.

And please help with a contribution of at least $25 or $35. Some people have already given as much as $500. Others have given $50 and $100.

But no matter how much you give, whether it's $15 or $150, I guarantee your contribution is urgently needed and will be deeply appreciated.

That's why I hope and pray that you will not delay a moment to make a contribution of $1000, $500, $100, $50, or at least $25 if you can.

Your contribution to the National Pro-Life Alliance and your signed petition will be the first steps toward reversing Roe v. Wade and waking up the politicians about where our barbarous pro-abortion policy is taking us.


Roger Wicker,
United States Senator

P.S.  The Supreme Court itself admitted -- if Congress declares unborn children "persons" under the law, the constitutional case for abortion-on-demand "collapses."

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Re: Abortion: Science or Legalism
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2011, 01:36:50 PM »
What you say about the definitive scientific humanity of every fetus is of course, undeniably true CC. Ignoring reality and constructing narrative for a new one based upon agenda is the only possible way around the facts.

It is outrageous that conservatives get labeled as "anti-science" when it is plain that the entire world view of liberalism is constructed from dreams and wishes about what could be if only they had their way, while completely ignoring what is. Conservatives are "anti-science" because we reject the fantasies of liberals. It's amazing.
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Re: Abortion: Science or Legalism
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2011, 01:52:12 PM »
Well put CC.

I've always marveled at the demonic dance that abortion advocates must dance to get around the simple fact that when you abort you murder. To my way of thinking it is simply undeniable.

Thank you

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Re: Abortion: Science or Legalism
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2011, 02:48:23 PM »
The way I see it is if I kill a puppy I go to jail, but if I kill a fetus that's ok?

There is something really screwy with that kind of logic!

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